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New ground in debate on 'curing' gays

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Jun 18, 2007.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting take from the LA Times, about how some of the religious folk are starting to believe that being gay is biological or genetic, not a choice and no matter how hard they try cannot "cure" gays folk.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ay18jun18,0,4259057.story?coll=la-home-center

    Alan Chambers directs Exodus International, widely described as the nation's largest ex-gay ministry. But when he addresses the group's Freedom Conference at Concordia University in Irvine this month, Chambers won't celebrate successful "ex-gays."

    Truth is, he's not sure he's ever met one.

    With years of therapy, Chambers says, he has mostly conquered his own attraction to men; he's a husband and a father, and he identifies as straight. But lately, he's come to resent the term "ex-gay": It's too neat, implying a clean break with the past, when he still struggles at times with homosexual temptation. "By no means would we ever say change can be sudden or complete," Chambers said.

    His personal denunciation of the term "ex-gay" — his organization has yet to follow suit — is just one example of shifting ground in the polarizing debate on homosexuality.

    Despite the fundamental gulf that divides them, gay-rights activists and those who see homosexuality as a sinful disorder are starting to reach agreement on some practical points.

    Chambers and other Exodus leaders talk deliberately about a possible biological basis for homosexuality, in part to explain that no one can turn a switch and flip from gay to straight, no matter how hard they pray.

    A leading conservative theologian outside the ex-gay movement recently echoed the view that homosexuality may not be a choice, but a matter of DNA. To the shock and anger of many of his constituents, the Rev. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, wrote that "we should not be surprised" to find a genetic basis for sexual orientation.

    That's heretical to many conservative Christians. But it's a view increasingly embraced by the public at large; a Gallup Poll last month found that 42% of adults believe sexual orientation is present at birth. (Three decades ago, when Gallup first asked the question, just 13% held that view.)
     
  2. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    GEEEEE, It only took about thirty year's.Before you know it they'll be saying something crazy like the earth orbits the sun. I wonder if anyone told them Rev. Hagert was "cured" of his gayness in just three weeks?
    But seriously I found it hard at first to believe in 2007 that almost sixty percent of the population thought that being gay was a learned behavior. Then I remembered who I was dealing with.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    flex, I've been saying it for years. There is a certifiable 30-40% retard factor in this country. I've always thought that to be a real low ball figure too. What's even more indicative of how challenged some people are in this country, is that some people think that we should set policy according to polls, or that a polls are gospel in determining how an issue should be viewed. :eek:
     
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I think it may also have something to do with the FACT that kids aren't learning much in high school. Genetics are part of second year biology. Some teachers spend a whole semester on it. Kids aren't paying attention. Never have. Genetics need to be taught sooner - at least the part about how DNA & RNA decide who you are at birth. In the Nature vs. Nurture arguement, Nurture is getting its arse kicked more and more.

    On the subject of sexual attraction, I'd be willing to bet that people's sexual preference is not the only part of attraction that's detrmined genetically. I think we'll find that within the gender-preference groups, there are sub-groups like thin men who like fat women, guys that like girls with narrow hips, short girls that like tall girls, etc. To say that microbiologists are just beginning to scratch the surface is an understatement.
     
  5. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Well I still think "being gay" should be actively discouraged. As I've said before, I do agree that a certain percentage of men are attracted to men. However I think only a subgroup of them are "only gay" whereas the rest are bixexual and could live happily either way.

    Being stubborn about such things, I am convinced it is better for society for bisexuals to choose to be straight over gay. Which is why I think being straight should be encouraged.

    If X% is only straight. And Y% is only gay. Then 100%-X%-Y% can go either way and whatever that percentage is, I think we should encourage them to join the X%.

    I'd actually be interested in what percentage of adult males (or females I guess) are solely gay vs. bisexual.
     
  6. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I personally doubt its purely genetic. IMO, genes establish a range of behaviors that early childhood, perhaps even late childhood/early adulthood pin down. One thing's for certain though, it isn't a choice. Bisexuals are distinctly different from gays or straights.
     
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    in case you missed it, that was our very own RW essentially outing Fog as a retard..... in the best stewie griffin voice imaginable: "Wasn't that EPIC!?"

    :cool:
     
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    How so? Not being contentious, just wondering if there's data to show that?
     
  9. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yes, and similar majorities still dont believe in evolution. Coincidence, or religious indoctrination?
     
  10. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Keep in mind, I used the qualifier/copout: IMO:D

    I can't point to any specific data online right now. I know I've come across different ideas in print that speculate. I'll see what I can find later.
     
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Don't bother...I don't care that much.:eat1:
     
  12. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

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    taught earlier? I hope not anything thats included in your second paragraph.:eek:
     
  13. patsfan13

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    It could be a combinations of things, Genes, exposure to chemicals in the womb during development, and sexual imprinting during adolescence, with the flood of chemicals during that time.

    The vulnerability of teens during to imprinting may exolain why many parents fear their kids being around gay people at that time.
     
  14. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    R.W I don,t know if there retarded,maybe just dumb as a sack of door knobs I think that there are alot of people who are wrapped up in getting that new truck,bike, car,boats,atv's, working to pay their bills takeing care of thier kids When I was a kid my mother stayed home,my father made enough money to live.Now both parents have to work. I do believe that the group your are refering to includes the above. They just don't care that this country is falling apart,it's getting farther into debt,the middle income job's are being sent over seas,there's an army of people willing to work for a couple of bucks and are driveing down wages.They listen to sound bites for news they spend almost zero,zippo,zilch amount of time finding out whats realy going on around them Until THEY get laid off,or smeone they know gets zapped in Iraq. They're appothetic,and distract them-selves with new toys like I mentioned above.It's sad but today I read a couple of posters say they didn't care about how corrupt this goverment has become. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I'll take catagory number two religious indoctrination
    for a 1000 dollars please. But I think there's more to it than that it's also the dumbing down of the grade school curriculem. Europe and asia have much higher standards then us,allthough I think our collage systom is second to none.Another angle I can think of is this in certain area's of the country they seem to revel in thier ignorance.My wife is a Kennedy School grad. She was first married to someone from West Virginia, both he and his family mocked,and deridid her for going to collage.
    "What do you need to go to collage for?, all any-one needs is the school of hard knocks" They said. She also told me that attitude is quit common in the South where she comes from. These are the same people who helped elect dub'ya as one of them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007
  16. wistahpatsfan

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    #75 Jersey

    There's more to genetics than sex, don't you think? I have said before that sex should not be discussed in grammer school. Calm down.
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    We're talking about the same general group of people. I don't mean to call hard working people who are ignorant to politics retarded, but I think doing so makes the point stick. Some people are too busy to inform themselves as much as they should. Personally, I think that if people did involve themselves, and understood what the facts were in relation to an issue, we'd see this country in excellent standing. Instead, we get disengenuous news, and out of touch politicians steering us further into the abyss. There is absolutely no justification for making 12-20 million ILLEGALS, legal. ZERO! The sheer cost, both fiscally, and socially, states so. Yet, for some strange reason, the American citizen is going to be boondoggled into having to pay for that. I really beleive we should make taxes post paid, instead of prepaid. That would not only work to make the everyday payer more aware of how much they are being robbed of, but it would force the government to have to collect, in order to pay. I can't spend money I haven't collected from my clients, and if my clients paid me ahead of time on a T & M (time and material job) basis, then there would be little reason for me to be efficient. :mad:
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Instead they hold a Gay Day. The school system in this country is pathetic. It's been monopolized by radicals, and our children are being drugged and indoctrinated into an agenda driven frenzy. Kids are not being permitted to be kids. Anyone that acts like one, is quickly sent to the school pscychiatrist, and put on "meds". :mad:

    Has anyone noticed that I'm mad today? :D
     
  19. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    R.W. There was no need to clarify your self,I understood what you ment.The boardeline i.q. for retardation if I remember correctly is between 50-70.The i.q. boarderline for those DUMB AS A SACK OF DOOR KNOBS isn't much higher,maybe 70-80. I think we both agree,that if the average citizen no matter what political persuasion spent more time actively paying attention to whats going on around them this country would not be in such bad shape.But they don't. They make no attempt to go beyond the nightly pablum feed to them by news organasations looking for ratings.When A.N. Smith died you would have thought it was the death of a president, or someone of that stature it was abserd.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2007

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