New field turf: An injury nightmare just beginning???

[FredFromDartmouth]

It seems the design criterion for turf may be the problem. Maybe they have
concentrated too much on making it durable.
It would seem a better design would be that is should give like natural grass
if a cleat is caught and even tear up as a result. But it should be easily repairable in case that happens.
Right now it seems the stuff is too strong.

Yup. Durability. The players bodies give instead of the turf.

Some fan like it because it looks "clean" like a Chemlawn green desert that never divots. Give me the mud.

 

[efin98]

I wonder how Brady feels about the turf after blowing out his knee on it? DOH. Or Moss limping around on two bad knees.

Compared with playing on the carpet on top of cement that was the Metrodome before fieldturf was installed and playing in the mud pit that was Gillette after Columbus Day before the field turf was installed both would feel that you are talking out your butt for even putting them into the conversation when Brady was one of if not the biggest proponant of the field turf and Moss's knees have nothing to do with the turf

 

[efin98]

They are working on that right now. But to say the grass football field is torn up because of soccer players is absurd. Being a Revs STH, when grass was the playing surface the grass was in perfect shape until September. The grass is and would be torn up by the NFL teams.

Where they would do the most damage frankly isn't even where the Patriots 90% of their downs- the corners, the penalty box, the goal line...

The yearly October rains is what destroys the turf more than any other reason. The two years that they got blasted by heavy rains in October the field became a mud pit.

 

[efin98]

Brady injured his knee at Arrowhead Stadium, which is a natural grass field. This is the second time you've incorrectly identified a playing surface. Is this an elaborate joke? If so, you've got me.

Where it happened didn't matter, the impact on his mind is what he is targetting here and it missed badly.

 

[unoriginal]

Actually efin98 I was incorrect, that was a Gillette Field game. What I remembered was that the Chiefs were wearing their home red uniforms that day, but that was because the Pats elected to wear their white uniforms.

 

[Ian]

The turf decision makes me wonder if the Krafts are more interested in making money than winning football games.

Not to be argumentative, but after the original switch to FieldTurf New England at one point went 20-0 at home on the new surface. So I think that kind of hurts that statement, and obviously they don't want to pay a guy millions of dollars and risk having him get hurt. Plus even Belichick was for the switch after they installed it inside the Dana Faber Field House, and I think things may have been different had he really been adamantly against it.

I wrote about this a while ago: http://www.patsfans.com/ian/blog/2010/06/19/gillette-stadium-turf-company-under-fire/

As for this new surface, it's supposed to be more forgiving, and to kind of shoot down a few others who brought it up regarding other injuries, from what I understand the Patriots are the only NFL team with it - the Meadowlands has the old stuff they just ripped out at Gillette and replaced it with this new one.

I'm a purist and miss the grass - but I don't think they're going to care about my opinion

 

[efin98]

Actually efin98 I was incorrect, that was a Gillette Field game. What I remembered was that the Chiefs were wearing their home red uniforms that day, but that was because the Pats elected to wear their white uniforms.

Doesn't matter to me, my point still stands...he was going after his mindset not the place where it happened with his post

 

[Joker]

why would it be cost prohibitive to

1)install a grass field

2)construct a polymer cover built in sections that could support sufficient weight and cover the field during concerts

3)move the soccer games to another venue...I mean, the revenue stream from THAT can't be THAT important, can it?

 

[Frezo]

why would it be cost prohibitive to

1)install a grass field

2)construct a polymer cover built in sections that could support sufficient weight and cover the field during concerts

3)move the soccer games to another venue...I mean, the revenue stream from THAT can't be THAT important, can it?

Kraft does have a temporary flooring system that is used for concerts and other events. I thought it was called Teraplast, but Google doesn't get a hit. It's football and a series of bad luck circumstances that destroys a grass field. It was late in the season before the playoffs that the league insisted that Kraft fix the field for television. It looked terrible. There was a period of little rain that caused the grass to die. When it did rain it turned to mud. Soccer and concerts have little effect on the condition.

 

[Joker]

heh...during periods of little rain,I water my grass...guess water is cost prohibitive too....but yeah, I get that football is the major factor in turf deterioration.The thing I cannot seem to grasp is I've been watching NFL football since 1961,with grass at every venue until Astroturf made its' debut,but suddenly in the 21st century,grass is no longer good enough. Perhaps I'm just an ol' die-hard.

 

[Frezo]

heh...during periods of little rain,I water my grass...guess water is cost prohibitive too....but yeah, I get that football is the major factor in turf deterioration.The thing I cannot seem to grasp is I've been watching NFL football since 1961,with grass at every venue until Astroturf made its' debut,but suddenly in the 21st century,grass is no longer good enough. Perhaps I'm just an ol' die-hard.

I like the grass too. Those games with totally frozen fields and rain with 3 or 4inches of mud do have their entertainment value.

Frezo (sitting in a rocking chair with an L&M and a Gansett)

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Kraft does have a temporary flooring system that is used for concerts and other events. I thought it was called Teraplast, but Google doesn't get a hit. It's football and a series of bad luck circumstances that destroys a grass field. It was late in the season before the playoffs that the league insisted that Kraft fix the field for television. It looked terrible. There was a period of little rain that caused the grass to die. When it did rain it turned to mud. Soccer and concerts have little effect on the condition.

That's the whole crux of the problem isn't it? Prissy fans like the antiseptic look of the plastic.

As far as concerts wrecking fields that was my understanding of what caused Gillette's field to turn into a mud pit. I seem to remember (rather murkily for some reason) a certain outdoor rock concert in upstate NY in 1969 that became the Mother of All Mudpits:

 

[efin98]

Kraft does have a temporary flooring system that is used for concerts and other events. I thought it was called Teraplast, but Google doesn't get a hit. It's football and a series of bad luck circumstances that destroys a grass field. It was late in the season before the playoffs that the league insisted that Kraft fix the field for television. It looked terrible. There was a period of little rain that caused the grass to die. When it did rain it turned to mud. Soccer and concerts have little effect on the condition.

Little rain is't the problem, it's time and too much rain. The sod usually is already rooted into the dirt by the time the summer dry spells start, but when the Fall rains start it goes from pristine to chopped in days.

And worse yet is they can't replace the chopped up sod during the season because it won't take root in time leading to the same problem over and over again. They tried in-season replacements and the same results happened each time- ripped up midfields and lots of mud.

 

[efin98]

That's the whole crux of the problem isn't it? Prissy fans like the antiseptic look of the plastic.

Yeah, that's the reason. We like the look of plastic

It doesn't matter that no matter how many times they put in new sod the Fall rains will make the field into a mud pit by October nor that they have LOST a game if not more because of the field.

 

[Frezo]

That's the whole crux of the problem isn't it? Prissy fans like the antiseptic look of the plastic.

As far as concerts wrecking fields that was my understanding of what caused Gillette's field to turn into a mud pit. I seem to remember (rather murkily for some reason) a certain outdoor rock concert in upstate NY in 1969 that became the Mother of All Mudpits:

We don't want the unis to get dirty either.

I was just a few years too young to see WS live. But...I do remember one of the older kids returning with a ziplock bag full of Orange Sunshine. The youth of the entire town was in a funk for a week.

 

[Frezo]

Little rain is't the problem, it's time and too much rain. The sod usually is already rooted into the dirt by the time the summer dry spells start, but when the Fall rains start it goes from pristine to chopped in days.

And worse yet is they can't replace the chopped up sod during the season because it won't take root in time leading to the same problem over and over again. They tried in-season replacements and the same results happened each time- ripped up midfields and lots of mud.

The problem with little rain is that when the field gets too dry it becomes hard packed and it hinders drainage.

Yeah, replacing sod during the season always seem to fail. Can you remember a game in SEA when the drainage of their artificial turf was so poor that ponds forming on the field caused a delay? They ended up having to play through it and it was hilarious!

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Some of you guys are out in leftfield with your theories, Jonatham Kraft was on weei and explained the whole field subject back when it was replaced. Even if only football was played on the field, as has been stated many times, it would get ripped up and look like crap come Nov-Dec because of our local weather. By that time of the year our field was a mud pit and newly laid sod is unsafe to play on.
They put the safest turf available on the field even though it was the most expensive at the time, at least it was when Jonathan did this interview.

Im sure they not trying to save pennies and forego grass and put million dollar players careers into jeopardy, that would'nt be the wisest of investments and the Krafts arent idiots.

 

[efin98]

The problem with little rain is that when the field gets too dry it becomes hard packed and it hinders drainage.

The bulk of the drainage was built into the field, unless it compacted rock solid I am highly doubtful that it would do that especially with the ability of them to water the field to prevent that from happening in the first place if it was a possibility.

Not that I discount poor drainage, I know firsthand what that can do to a field as my high school field had that problem despite being levelled and new sod being put down and given a chance to take root every year...with the same result happening as soon as the rains came. This problem was only solved when the NFL came in and gave money to redo the entire field putting down an artificial turf surface while adding a better sand/gravel/rubber drainage system.

Yeah, replacing sod during the season always seem to fail. Can you remember a game in SEA when the drainage of their artificial turf was so poor that ponds forming on the field caused a delay? They ended up having to play through it and it was hilarious!

When did this happen because I haven't seen anything on this. They had a problem with their original turf but that was due to the compacting of the materials under the turf, which are different materials than the material used under Gillette once the sod was torn up four years ago.

 

[Brady2Welker]

I love the Kraft conspiracy theories. "He just wants money", lolol. You're telling me that a successful business man is skimping on his teams biggest investment (Brady/Moss/ Welker) to save money? Keeping these players on the field the entire season will 'save' him more compared to losing Brady for the season l.

That said, please keep going with the conspiracy. I love it.

 

[Frezo]

When did this happen because I haven't seen anything on this. They had a problem with their original turf but that was due to the compacting of the materials under the turf, which are different materials than the material used under Gillette once the sod was torn up four years ago.

I think it was in '05.
YouTube - Pooring rain before Seahawks game