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New Facts Revealed about Gunwalker

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    WH document dump Friday to avoid the news cycle. They knew a lot more than they admitted to, perhaps they were lying through their teeth.



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    Screenshot2011-10-01at110019AM.png picture by katiepavlich - Photobucket




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    Despite Denials, Map Proves Deliberate Illegal Gun Trafficking by ATF to Mexico - Katie Pavlich
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2011
  2. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve In the Starting Line-Up

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    No, no, no. You've got it all wrong. This is just another stellar example of a public/private partnership in action.:cool:
     
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last weeks flavor of the week, Rick Perry, is proposing to send troops into Mexico...
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obviously, the gunwalker strategy was a bad one for trying to take down the powerful Mexican drug cartels. I think it just makes the case for the legalization (but highly regulated, though libertarians might disagree) of drugs given the reality that the drug cartels are so powerful that they actually use the American conservative movement as a pawn against the ATF, FBI, and DEA, which oddly enough has considerable support by both the left and the right. In other words, the only winners here are the Mexican drug cartels, which are seeing a stupid ATF strategy lambasted for political reasons by the right wing, thus the cartels end up with weapons and a weaker ATF. The whole things is really messed up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2011
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think making Heroin legal may not be a good idea. Black tar heroin is big $$$ for the cartels.

    Intentionally giving guns to narco-terrorist is an act of war that cost the lives of over 200 Mexicans so far, and god knows how many going forward IOW it was criminal.
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And you know that how, did the cartels voluntarily give up their guns for forensic tests and then got them back later so they could continue their violence??

    Unfortunately, for many Mexican lives are cheap by our standards..
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Mexican authorities have traced guns involved in murders there to the guns that taxpayers paid for and sent to Mexican drug cartels.


    Defending this is more pathetic than your usual partisanship.
     
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So now the mexican authorities have become competent.. spin, spin, spin... thought most of these murders were unsolved????

    FYI they did not send them, as much as a clusterfock this is, they did not send them
     
  9. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Why is there only right wing outrage over this? I would think all Americans should be extremely disturbed about this. I am.

    Color me surprised that this is getting so little news coverage in proportion to its significance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2011
  10. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Maybe because "the left" has little outrage left over. They've been outraged for years over the fact that the US dominates the international arms market and has for many years.

    Hard to get outraged over an accidental loss of supposedly trackable arms to a "friendly" country like Mexico when we've routinely supplied an enormous amount of weapons which were used to help outfit non-democratic regimes, to arm soldiers who commit gross human rights abuses against their citizens and citizens of other countries, and to military forces in unstable regions on the verge of, in the middle of, or recovering from conflict.

    The United States military has had to face troops previously trained by its own military or supplied with U.S. weaponry in Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Haiti, and in Afghanistan - to say nothing of the meyhem committed upon the innocent civilians in those and many other countries.

    Just for example - a significant portion of $6 billion in covert U.S. arms and training sent to Afghan rebel groups in the 1980s was funneled to right-wing Islamic fundamentalist forces that now use these resources to attack U.S. allies and citizens.

    We've certainly never worried about "tracking" weapons we've supplied anyone else - and there's certainly not been any "outrage" from "the right" about any of it. But now, there's an accident, an oversight, a mistake, something didn't work as plan, and OMG!!!

    I'll continue to feel badly about the way things turned out with this apparently not so fail-safe plan but I'll save my outrage for the deliberate governmental dispensing of weapons to hostile countries who are at war with our coutnry and with their own innocent citizens, thank you very much.
     
  11. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Are you being honest here?

    The fact the ATF was behind this doesn't set off any alarms for you? Sadly, I suspect the letter behind the President's name is the real reason the left is silent. Have you read much about this whole thing?

    You don't see the difference here? The ATF's stated objective was to prevent the sale of firearms to Mexico and then they turn and facilitate that very thing, selling them to current (not unforeseen future) enemies of the United States for reasons that are not clear, and was then followed by an attempted cover-up. The only really comparable example is the Iran-Contra scandal, which Reagan somehow survived.

    In any event, does it not concern you at all that a US law enforcement agency is directly responsible for putting LEOs and residents in border states in more peril? This isn't a partisan issue, Mrs.P, no matter how much many in here would like it to be.

    Hekmatyar was right-wing? I didn't realize he operated on a Western political axis, unless you're talking about his opposition to the Soviets, in which case, I wouldn't agree that one had to be right-wing to oppose them. If you're talking about the Taliban, the overwhelming majority of them weren't around in the 1980s.

    Do you know specifically who funneled those resources to (mostly) Hekmatyar? I'm looking for the name of one man, who can (and still does) claim sole responsibility for arranging things this way. If you do know, it will help in understanding what happened.

    Your perspective about this whole thing being a mere accident and oversight is interesting, and I have no doubt it would have been dramatically different with a Repub in the White House. Of course, had this happened under a Repub administration, I'm sure many of the Repubs around would blow it off just like you are right now. All part of the game, I guess.

    Thanks for the preaching, but it rings a bit hollow. You have your side and they have theirs. Got it.
     
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No one has ever said it is a good thing, in fact most think it is stupid.. and a poor plan that went down the shytter quickly.

    But the facts are that we have been doing this type of thing for generations, with poor results. We need to rethink our drug policy first, and then our policy of allowing arms to flow to those to anyone. We armed Bin Laden during the Reagan Administration..we helped Iran in the conflict with Iraq.. we have always done these type of activities.

    We armed the Libyan Rebels.. and this may turn out poorly also.. we need to stop doing these type of activities..
     
  13. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve In the Starting Line-Up

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    The time to end prohibition of intoxicating drugs is long past due. Some regulation is always in order in any business and considerations need to be paid to quality conformity for safety sake. But all prohibition does is support illegal violent activity and a huge police state.

    Interventionalism has been THE foreign affairs error of almost(?) every administration since WWII.
     
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do not disagree.. time for a change, let things take their own course.. it seems every time we get involved we f.. it up more.
     

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