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New Era for defenses?

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by Cassanova792, Dec 24, 2012.

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  1. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Practice Squad Player

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    RG3, Luck, Wilson, Kaepernick, the rising stars of the NFL. They all have one thing in common: mobility. In the next few years when they get more experience, they will be even more dangerous. We can also assume, since it is a copy cat league, we could very wrll see a slew of fast mobile qb's being drafted.

    Our front 7 is very stout as well as very good, but they are not very fast, I believe that the future of our defense should be to cater to these new mobile qb's. Since it is very likely the Superbowl will be reprsented by one of them. The Giants showed the last few years what a fast defense can do and now the Seahawks are evolving this idea even further putting themselves ahead of the game with tremendous results.

    How do you guys feel about this? Is this a new era for QB's and defenses?? Will our defensive philosophy be outdated?
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mobile QBs aren't new. Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach and Steve Young were all mobile guys. Colin Kaepernick is basically Randall Cunningham.

    Mobility presents problems, no doubt about it. Mobile QBs also tend to take a beating, and many tend to wear down quickly. Those who combine durability and accuracy with mobility are very tough.

    What may be new is the number of accurate and mobile QBs in the era of pass-happy rules. It certainly presents some challenges for defenses. Quickness and pursuit will probably be more important than ever. But I'm guessing that the majority of mobile QBs won't last. Look at Vince Young, Ryan Fitzpatrick, etc. The best ones will probably be guys who aren't so much "mobile" QBs as pocket QBs with athleticism, like Aaron Rodgers and Andrew Luck.
     
  3. sieglo

    sieglo In the Starting Line-Up

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    Michael Vick says hello.
     
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Like I said, if you can be mobile + durable + accurate then you have something going. Michael Vick has offered the mobile part, but not so much the other 2.
     
  5. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Practice Squad Player

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    These new crop of mobile QB's are vastly different in that they are actually very good and accurate throwing the ball. Even If they weren't mobile all of these guys are pro bowl potential passers, the running game just gives them another element. Plus these guys with the exception of RG3 are taught to slide before they come into contact which could extend their careers. The fact that these 4 are emerging at the same time could usher in a new age.

    With that said I think fast defenses are the future.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wouldn't rush to declare this guys pro bowl passers just yet. Kaepernick has a strong arm but he's really a run QB who uses the threat of the pass to set up SFs running game. When Seattle took away the run he was pretty toothless last night against a good secondary. Cam Newton has a strong arm, but I wouldn't call him a pro bowl passer. RGIII and Russell Wilson are the more intersting guys to me, and I think both have the intangibles to make them likely to be around for a long time, if they don't get the crap beat out of them. That's always a major question mark with mobile QBs. Injuries take a toll, and when the mobility starts to go, it changes things dramatically. But there's no doubt those 2 guys are going to make things interesting for a while.
     
  7. dannydyn

    dannydyn PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good point. Go ask Vick how his mobility has served him....

    Also, throwing ACCURATELY on the move is MUCH harder.
     
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's very hard. Balls tend to sail, it's much harder to gauge how your momemum is going to affect the throw vs. being planted. Plus mobile QBs take a ton of hits. Even guys who aren't running QBs, just guys who tend to use their mobility outside of the pocket more. Look how many hits guys like Aaron Rodgers and Ben Rothlisberger take vs. guys like Brady and Manning, who get rid of the ball quickly, and who's definition of "mobility" is stepping up in the pocket. RGIII has already taken a couple of good shots this season, and not been far away from a significant injury. It's an occupational hazard that goes with that style of play.
     
  9. PatsWickedPissah

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    We have a potentially quick DE in Jones. The big LB corps needs one quick platoon member added, someone who can play QB contain and get in the same zipcode as a TE or RB.
     
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dane Fletcher did some of that in previous years. But that kind of player is definitely needed.
     
  11. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady In the Starting Line-Up

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    If I had a dime for every time I heard this...
     
  12. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    Problem is not mobile QBs. Problem is the college offensive system is being used by these teams which is bringing a lot more variety and challenges to the defenses .
     
  13. patsfanincleveland

    patsfanincleveland On the Game Day Roster

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    If a team wants to limit a mobile QB, don't let him start drives on your own 45,3,27,38, and 12.

    That sums up the SF game.

    This is the same way the Sanchez mistake came to fruition.
     
  14. Cassanova792

    Cassanova792 Practice Squad Player

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    It's different now. When have you had 5 players (RG3, Wilson, Luck, Kaepernick, Cam Newton) who are very mobile yet accurate in the pocket at the same time?? I don't think its ever been done Remember i said mobile AND Accurate.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  15. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven In the Starting Line-Up

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    Yes it's a new era. No we will not be outdated defensively or offensively. Offensively, because the Patriots have been studying the spread option since 2007 and have innovated to mix aspects of that offense with the WCO and a high precision passer like Brady. The rest of the teams are just now catching up. Defensively because BB is already aware of what's taking place.

    I believe this coaching staff and this organization is great at innovating and will continue to do so going forward. Whatever direction we go in, both defensively and offensively I know BB is not a stubborn coach who doesn't get with the times. He'll probably go in the opposite direction the rest of the NFL goes in, like he's shown in the past to try and stay a step ahead of everyone else.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  16. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler In the Starting Line-Up

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    The new era has given rise to a more mobile QB not the other way around. The rules favoring the offense, the new rules that favor the QB make the mobile QB a better investment than it use to be. Prior to this a mobile QB would get brutalized by the powerful defenders found on NFL defenses. Now a QB can run and take a fraction of the beating he would take.
    Prior to the new rules of PI and allowing receivers over the middle to be 'unbrutalized', a successful QB had to be able to read defenses and pass accordingly to a high degree.

    I am not saying it is right or wrong......it just is whether one likes it or not.
     
  17. Finnishfan

    Finnishfan Practice Squad Player

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    I think there was one major reason why this year became the year of the Rookie QBs in the national media, outside of the talent of those rookies.

    The mindset for rookie players has always been this, with few exceptions: "how well can the player adapt to the pro system?". Last year, Ron Rivera told himself: "How about if I reverse the question on Cam: how well can the system adapt to him?".

    The success of RG3 and Wilson is mostly due to both Skins and Hawks tailoring their offense to suit the strengths of those rookies. This sounds simple enough, but it's actually a fairly new concept. The old wisdom is that college offenses do not work in the NFL, but Panthers with Newton, and funnily enough Broncos with Tebow, proved otherwise last year, despite that didn't translate to a lot of real success for either team. But honestly, if you can make Tebow win with a college style option offense, then how about using that with a more talented rookie like RG3 or Wilson?

    Also, Harbaugh's ability to make 49ers successful with a very college-like offense has contributed to this.

    Luck is a whole different story. He is actually playing a "real" NFL offense, he just has the legs to go with it. He still has lot of room for improvement, but unlike RG3 and Wilson, he can do well in just about any system.



    So back to the question in the topic:

    Yes, this is definitely a new era for defenses. But not so much because of the dual-threat QBs (who have been around for a long time), but more because of college-like schemes being brought to the NFL with success.

    The QB position is getting more and more emphasis, and teams are realizing that they need to build the offense around the QB instead of forcing the QB to adapt to the style of offense they are running.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  18. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Success can be fleeting at this level because of the greater athleticism and speed and size of all the participants. Over time we'll see how well this next QB generation adapts and adjusts to defenses given a seasons worth of tape to analyze, adapt and adjust to them as well as the scheme they're utilizing. For the most part novelties wear thin in a hurry in this league because the best and brightest on both sides of the equation live to come up with a counter measure. I also think these teams have benefitted tremendously from a year in which some of the usual suspects (say the Giants and Steelers or Saints and Chargers) have struggled while many other teams have failed to simply field a remotely competitive team due to miscalculation and/or mismanagement or lack of a merely functionally competent QB.
     
  19. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thinking big picture here. Teams tend to build their defenses to match up vs their divisional foes. The Pats AFC East opponents, because of their weak QB play, has been a run first division for the most part. Same with the Central teams. It makes sense to concentrate resources to stop the run and dare teams to beat you through the air.
    But as the OP states, these mobile QBs that can extend the play a second or two longer present a problem for teams designed to stop the run. Defenses require a LB to spy the mobile QB to keep him in check which limits numbers in the secondary. Receivers given extra time thanks to the mobile QB have too often proven they can shake loose our secondary defenders....and the result is the big play. Seattle and SF both exposed the secondary by working the long ball.
    Did any one catch the wild scramble in the back field by Wilson vs SF early in the second half....Plunkettesque. Defenders couldn't come close to his athleticism. I'll be honest...I'm fascinated by Seattle...the combination of a killer defense, a scrambling QB, and the big play potential. We'll see if they can overcome their road woes as it looks as if they will be road warriors throughout the playoffs.
    As far as the Pats go, they are woefully slow in the front seven and the LB corp's lack of speed scares me. Luckily, the AFC playoff participants lack mobile QBs and only Foster has the ability to take the ball around the corner. (Getting the lead on Houston remains critical....thus limiting his touches)
    Which AFC playoff team has a defense that matches up best vs the SF/Seattle mobile QB offenses? Cincy has done a nice job pressuring up the middle but hasn't faced these NFC West young turks. Denver??? They have the one piece, Vaughn Miller, designed to neutralize behind the LOS faster than any other team. Is that enough?
    As a fan, watching these new guys is alot of fun. Something about the scrambling QB....flirting with disaster/then overcoming the odds (if they can). If its not the Patriots competing in the SB, then I'm all over both SF and Seattle and I hope they humiliate who ever they face. The others? Yawn....seen it/done that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  20. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I agree with Mayo's basic OP, that there have been mobile QB's before. They are flashy, make great highlights, and don't have long shelf lives. However one can't ignore the fact that that I can't remember a time where there were 3 or 4 NFL teams that made the read option a regular feature of their offenses.

    There is no question that defenses are going to have to catch up to these developments, and they are NOT going away. I am old enough to remember when a one back formation was a novelty and an empty backfield was unheard of. I love watching teams run the read option, and run plays from the pistol formation. I think its great. How long it lasts and if it will spread across the league will depend on if defenses can catch up, and if it remains effective long term.

    One thing for certain, Russell Wilson has done a HUGE favor for every college QB who isn't over 6'4" tall, and can run a bit. They all are now on the NFL radar.
     
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