Needs Analysis: Safety

[DaBruinz]

Dude, where do you get this stuff? The Pats had 3 starting safeties? Wilson and Harrison were our starters until Wilson couldn't get on the field anymore because of injuries. Of course someone else is going to start. That's like saying, "hey, we have 5 starting CBs this year!" No ****, because we had to start Hobbs, Lewis, Delta, Wheatley, and Wilhite at some point because they had to. If Geno had not gotten hurt, that spot would have been his for as long as he wanted.

How long have you been following this team? 10 minutes? 6 months maybe? Bill Belichick, prior to the start of the 2007 season, commented on how it was a great thing to have 3 starting caliber safeties in Sanders, Harrison and Wilson over the past few years. I'll take Belichick's OBJECTIVE view over yours any day of the week.

Also, big plays are inevitable because this is the NFL. But if you actually watch the Pats and are being objective, you'd come away with the impression that Sanders is a liability in the open field, which is where he is because he plays deep center. I will be shocked if BB doesn't address this in the offseason.

Let me know when you actually do start watching games and watching with an objective eye because you are only partially correct. On some plays, Sanders plays in the open field and is at deep center. However, it depends on the coverage called.

Sanders isn't spectacular, but he's not garbage like you'd have everyone believe. Oh, and something to think about. James Sanders is 5'10 and 210. Rodney was 6'1 and 220. Sanders was a SS coming out of college and has lined up closer to the line on numerous occasions, though the Pats clearly felt that Meriweather was better up there and that Sanders was better lining up back farther.

If/when you get up to speed with everyone else, you'll see that most people have safety depth as a need because Harrison, James Sanders and Lewis Sanders are all UFA. And neither Spann, Ventrone, nor Slater are good enough to be the safety opposite Meriweather.

 

[BritPat]

Fair post that. I have Safety penned as the 4th biggest need on my needs list, although in terms of concern, it might be number 1.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Good point, it could just come down to value. The only caveat to that is if the Patriots believe Merriweather is significantly better on their scale at one of the safety positions than the other.

I do think BB would prefer to have Meriweather playing the SS role Rodney established - in and around the box disrupting plays.

I believe BB had some hope that Meriweather would replace Samuel as his 'ballhawking' CB. Brandon just proved to be a little too stiff as a CB, but at SS he has more freedom for his instincts to put him in the middle of a play. Athletic TE/RB are going to give him trouble in coverage, the same way the knock on a younger Rodney was coverage, but Brandon is in a position to grow into his coverage skills with more experience to help him read plays. I'm sure BB would prefer to have a SS with more beef, but if he can pick up one of those bigger FS in this draft (Courtney Greene, David Bruton) to groom as his enforcer/center fielder/Field General guy, he can get that back.

Personally, I expect NE to make an honest effort to re-sign James Sanders. He's BB's current Field General in the secondary. Even if Rodney comes back, James provides continuity on the field.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, I think that Belichick would like to have James Sanders back, and will make an honest effort and offer a fair deal. However, I would think that other teams would offer more than we will. Belichick think much more of Sanders than most posters on this board.

Certainly Harrison can come back if he is able. I suspect that he's done. He just doesn't have Junior's body. The other injury question mark is Tank Williams. I would hope that he will be back as a backup and special teamer. I also expect Lew Sanders to be back.

As with almost all needs, there are other issues that could affect the draft importance of the postion. If Sanders, Williams and Sanders all come back, the need at safety is greatly diminished (moved to low prirority in the top 100 picks). Belichick will have made his choices. And of course, Harrison could be on speed dial or the PUP until he is ready.

We should know whether James Sanders is re-signed long before the draft.

I do think BB would prefer to have Meriweather playing the SS role Rodney established - in and around the box disrupting plays.

I believe BB had some hope that Meriweather would replace Samuel as his 'ballhawking' CB. Brandon just proved to be a little too stiff as a CB, but at SS he has more freedom for his instincts to put him in the middle of a play. Athletic TE/RB are going to give him trouble in coverage, the same way the knock on a younger Rodney was coverage, but Brandon is in a position to grow into his coverage skills with more experience to help him read plays. I'm sure BB would prefer to have a SS with more beef, but if he can pick up one of those bigger FS in this draft (Courtney Greene, David Bruton) to groom as his enforcer/center fielder/Field General guy, he can get that back.

Personally, I expect NE to make an honest effort to re-sign James Sanders. He's BB's current Field General in the secondary. Even if Rodney comes back, James provides continuity on the field.

 

[BelichickFan]

I do think BB would prefer to have Meriweather playing the SS role Rodney established - in and around the box disrupting plays.

Do you think he has the body for this long term ? In my perfect world he's a good enough cover guy to be Eugene Wilson from 2003 and we could get a bigger body like William Moore to be the banger who can also play some pass coverage.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Do you think he has the body for this long term ? In my perfect world he's a good enough cover guy to be Eugene Wilson from 2003 and we could get a bigger body like William Moore to be the banger who can also play some pass coverage.

Based on his measurables, he wouldn't be my first choice to play in the box, but his playmaker skillset outweighs that issue - it's what's best for the team. If BB can find a bigger set of muscles to play the role, well and good.

 

[jdk19]

Sean Jones the Safety from Cleveland is a UFA I believe.

I think the pats may risk letting a Sanders go and pursue someone like him.

A mid level FA S.

They you can go into the draft and see if a Mays falls into your lap or if you have to move up to get him.

It is possible the Pats may have a second 1st round pick or they could deal back up into the first.

I would like to see them come away with a Jones and Mays at Safety to go along with Merriweather. If they could sign Sanders as well even better.

 

[BritPat]

Can't see Mays dropping outside the top 10, personally.

Moore might fall though, with any luck. If he does, it would take me about 2 seconds flat to write his name down and hand it in.

 

[DaBruinz]

Sean Jones the Safety from Cleveland is a UFA I believe.

I think the pats may risk letting a Sanders go and pursue someone like him.

A mid level FA S.

Why would they have to "risk" letting Sanders go to pursue Jones? They can get both unless Sanders believes he'll get starting time with another team.

They you can go into the draft and see if a Mays falls into your lap or if you have to move up to get him.

It is possible the Pats may have a second 1st round pick or they could deal back up into the first.

I would like to see them come away with a Jones and Mays at Safety to go along with Merriweather. If they could sign Sanders as well even better.

Its unlikely that Mays will fall to the Pats. However, with the potentially enormous number of underclassmen declaring for this draft, This could be the deepest draft in history with players who rated out highly falling well into the 2nd round and possibly the thirds, who would normally have been 1st rounders without all the extra underclassmen declaring.

 

[Seneschal2]

I'm thinking Will Moore will be within reach of #24. The only two other Safeties I really like at this early stage are:

Courtney Greene, Rutgers
Chip Vaughn, Wake Forest

All three have qualities that fit the Pats. The good news is, both Greene and Vaughn aren't first round ranked like Moore, essentially freeing up our first pick for a different position.

 

[condon84]

How long have you been following this team? 10 minutes? 6 months maybe? Bill Belichick, prior to the start of the 2007 season, commented on how it was a great thing to have 3 starting caliber safeties in Sanders, Harrison and Wilson over the past few years. I'll take Belichick's OBJECTIVE view over yours any day of the week.



Let me know when you actually do start watching games and watching with an objective eye because you are only partially correct. On some plays, Sanders plays in the open field and is at deep center. However, it depends on the coverage called.

Sanders isn't spectacular, but he's not garbage like you'd have everyone believe. Oh, and something to think about. James Sanders is 5'10 and 210. Rodney was 6'1 and 220. Sanders was a SS coming out of college and has lined up closer to the line on numerous occasions, though the Pats clearly felt that Meriweather was better up there and that Sanders was better lining up back farther.

If/when you get up to speed with everyone else, you'll see that most people have safety depth as a need because Harrison, James Sanders and Lewis Sanders are all UFA. And neither Spann, Ventrone, nor Slater are good enough to be the safety opposite Meriweather.

So BB commented on having 3 starting safeties when Wilson got hurt. LOL. Of course he's gonna say that. He's gonna try to give his guys confidence. Belicheck also commented that Beisel was a good addition to the LB corps and that Fernando Bryant was a good CB. I could go on and on about stuff Belicheck's says and they're all calculated. LOL. Yeah, Belly also said he misinterpreted the camera rule that got him in trouble with spygate.

If/when you get in touch with reality, Sanders is a special teams player. I know I'm not the only one that sees this because I see countless posts on here from other posters that say the same thing. I also saw opposing coaches go throw deep on us when we had him as the lone safety back there.

BTW, I haven't been there in a while. Is the land of fantasy still as sunny as I remember?

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Am I the only one who was underwhelmed by Mays' bowl performance? Other than the KO hit that was flagged as a shot to the head, he really didn't stand out. Well, I guess he stood out when he pounded the ground in frustration/anger twice when Penn scored TDs to his area.

 

[mcsully]

So BB commented on having 3 starting safeties when Wilson got hurt. LOL. Of course he's gonna say that. He's gonna try to give his guys confidence. Belicheck also commented that Beisel was a good addition to the LB corps and that Fernando Bryant was a good CB. I could go on and on about stuff Belicheck's says and they're all calculated. LOL. Yeah, Belly also said he misinterpreted the camera rule that got him in trouble with spygate.

If/when you get in touch with reality, Sanders is a special teams player. I know I'm not the only one that sees this because I see countless posts on here from other posters that say the same thing. I also saw opposing coaches go throw deep on us when we had him as the lone safety back there.

BTW, I haven't been there in a while. Is the land of fantasy still as sunny as I remember?

I tend to agree with you assessment on Sanders.. Maybe not to the degree that you say he's a special teams player but my feelings is the Pats will upgrade the position..

The strongest part of Sanders game is his tackling. More times than not, he wraps up the ball carrier and takes them down. BUT on taht note, he just doesn't make plays for you.

& don't worry about half of these guys with 10,000+ posts.. Most of them know very little about the game and just post to defend their weak point of views.. I find to many times these posters are rude and take the discussion personal..

 

[mcsully]

Am I the only one who was underwhelmed by Mays' bowl performance? Other than the KO hit that was flagged as a shot to the head, he really didn't stand out. Well, I guess he stood out when he pounded the ground in frustration/anger twice when Penn scored TDs to his area.

I tend to agree he didn't make a name for himself during the game but he did have some nice hits. Its only one game and he'll be a top 15 pick. Todd McShay has him going to New Orleans..

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

& don't worry about half of these guys with 10,000+ posts.. Most of them know very little about the game and just post to defend their weak point of views.. I find to many times these posters are rude and take the discussion personal..

I'm hurted.

 

[cstjohn17]

I have been thinking about the type of Safety the Patriots are looking for.

Are they targetting:
option A - smaller safety with good coverage skills ?
- ability to play Safety and some corner in a pinch
names - Delmas, Johnson, Pegues

option B - bigger, more traditional SS type
- in the box type, potential LB is long yardage situtions
names - Moore, Vaughn

versatile players - play a little bit of both (Chung) <- they more I read about this guy the more I like him, instant quality depth at both Safety spots and special teams contributor from day 1

 

[JMarr]

I have been thinking about the type of Safety the Patriots are looking for.

Are they targetting:
option A - smaller safety with good coverage skills ?
- ability to play Safety and some corner in a pinch
names - Delmas, Johnson, Pegues

option B - bigger, more traditional SS type
- in the box type, potential LB is long yardage situtions
names - Moore, Vaughn

You only need to look at who BB brought in last year--Tank and John Lynch [alibeit briefly]--to answer your question. And Springs adds more depth as a "cover" type safety. Our biggest need right now, besides a major upgrade of the LB corps, is a big, physical intimidator in the secondary--another Rodney.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You only need to look at who BB brought in last year--Tank and John Lynch [alibeit briefly]--to answer your question. And Springs adds more depth as a "cover" type safety. Our biggest need right now, besides a major upgrade of the LB corps, is a big, physical intimidator in the secondary--another Rodney.

Chip Vaughn, Stephen Hodge - both playmakers, the latter is Rodney Jr. in my book.

Keep an eye on Keith Fitzhugh if BB doesn't land Chung. CB DeAngelo Willingham in the 7th/UDFA is a big tweener who was very physical in Texas vs. The Nation.

 

[DaBruinz]

So BB commented on having 3 starting safeties when Wilson got hurt. LOL. Of course he's gonna say that. He's gonna try to give his guys confidence. Belicheck also commented that Beisel was a good addition to the LB corps and that Fernando Bryant was a good CB. I could go on and on about stuff Belicheck's says and they're all calculated. LOL. Yeah, Belly also said he misinterpreted the camera rule that got him in trouble with spygate.

If/when you get in touch with reality, Sanders is a special teams player. I know I'm not the only one that sees this because I see countless posts on here from other posters that say the same thing. I also saw opposing coaches go throw deep on us when we had him as the lone safety back there.

Unlike you, I am in touch with reality. Unlike you, I understand that Sanders is more than just a special teams player. Its why he got 3 million a year to stay with the Patriots. Its highly unlikely that the Pats shelled out 3 million a year for Sanders just to be a special teams player. Unlike you, I saw opposing coaches go deep on the Patriots regardless of who was the lone safety. It didn't matter whether it was Meriweather, Harrison, or Sanders.

As for the "countless posts from other posters," you must be counting each of DW Toys ones separately. Most people accept that Sanders is a starting quality safety, but also know that he could be improved upon. But they also understand that you can only have so many star quality players.

BTW, I haven't been there in a while. Is the land of fantasy still as sunny as I remember?

The delusioned always believe that they are the only ones in the land of reality.

 

[mayoclinic]

This from Rich Gosselin's blog on Louis Delmas:

NFL Blog | Sports News | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News

"For all Cowboys' fans who want Jerry Jones to draft a safety - and there are many of you out there - take a look at Western Michigan's Louis Delmas. He may not have the pre-daft hype of Oregon's Patrick Chung or Missouri's William Moore but he may be every bit the player.

Delmas was a four-year starter, three time All-Mid-American Conference selection and a two-time captain. He started his first season at cornerback and his final three years at safety. He's a hitting machine with 310 career tackles. His desire for contact frustrated him during the week of practice at the Senior Bowl.

"I'm not the biggest or the fastest dude," Delmas said. "so hitting is a big part of my game. When I was at the Senior Bowl, we couldn't hit. I got kind of offended. They're wearing pads. They run fast but you can't hit them. When you put the pads on, that says a lot about you."

Delmas (5-11, 202) plays in coverage as well as he plays in the box. He left Western with 12 career interceptions and 18 passes broken up."