Needs Analysis: Offensive Line

[Ochmed Jones]

I concur, though I'd downgrade your severe to potentially significant with the post 2009 re-signings to be considered. Like many I'd love to see a reserve NT who can beat out Mike Wright for the job.

We are doing the Fla. Alabama game on Dec 6th. If you get a chance to watch, look for Mount Cody, the Alabama 3-4 NT. You can't miss him, he is 400 plus pounds and extremely agile for a guy that size.
I doubt Florida has the O line or the RB's to run inside on Mount Cody and Ro McClian however, so I expect Florida to keep it a speed game on the edges.

In the end however, I expect Cody could put Wilfork on the bench, maybe not next season, but definitely in season 2, which works out great for us and wesave a ton of cash and upgrade the NT position by not resigning Wilfork.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

We are doing the Fla. Alabama game on Dec 6th. If you get a chance to watch, look for Mount Cody, the Alabama 3-4 NT. You can't miss him, he is 400 plus pounds and extremely agile for a guy that size.
I doubt Florida has the O line or the RB's to run inside on Mount Cody and Ro McClian however, so I expect Florida to keep it a speed game on the edges.

In the end however, I expect Cody could put Wilfork on the bench, maybe not next season, but definitely in season 2, which works out great for us and wesave a ton of cash and upgrade the NT position by not resigning Wilfork.

I've DVR'd the Auburn and MS State games so I can see him in a couple different contests, though I'm getting a feeling from the little I've read so far that he's going to be tempting to several of the teams with top ten picks.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I've DVR'd the Auburn and MS State games so I can see him in a couple different contests, though I'm getting a feeling from the little I've read so far that he's going to be tempting to several of the teams with top ten picks.

You could be right, especially if he has an awesome game against Florida.

 

[KevinFaulk-33]

I think that our most important need on the o-line is the Guard, because of the contracts expires.

Who do you think can fit in our scheme blocking?

What about Andy Levitre?

 

[mgteich]

The open question is whether we might choose Unger or Mack in the first, as Neal's 2010 replacement. I expect both to be on our value baords for our first pick.

 

[cstjohn17]

The open question is whether we might choose Unger or Mack in the first, as Neal's 2010 replacement. I expect both to be on our value baords for our first pick.

I wouldn't think so, they may be on the value board for the 2nd round picks but not at 24. With other needs of defense I would be surprised to see them take a backup guard in the first round. They took Mankins at pick 32 and he has started every game since, that year they had an open spot after ANdruzzi left.

Looking at OT, it appears to be another strong class. There may be a very good tackle available at 24, someone who would be an upgrade at RT with potential to move to the left side in a couple of years.

IMO the first pick will be based primarily on best value, the round 2 picks with be based on defense and in round 3-4 they add a lineman (OT/G hybrid) and then in the later rounds look for a developmental prospect.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think that our most important need on the o-line is the Guard, because of the contracts expires.

Who do you think can fit in our scheme blocking?

What about Andy Levitre?

Levitre is a good choice. There are a number of OL to like in this draft and the lust for an elite LT aside, the best value looks to be in the mid-rounds with Neal finishing the season relatively healthy.

 

[DaBruinz]

Levitre is a good choice. There are a number of OL to like in this draft and the lust for an elite LT aside, the best value looks to be in the mid-rounds with Neal finishing the season relatively healthy.

Its interesting that both Levitre and Unger both went to University in Oregon. They both have a nasty on field attitude. And both have played all 3 positions on the O-line. I'd love if the Pats got one or BOTH of them....

 

[mgteich]

Both of them? Are you ready to use a 1st and a 2nd?

I might be ready by with that plan draft time, depending on re-signings, free agency signings and extensions. Dante likes to have at least one veteran backup interior lineman. However, he might make an exception if he has both these prospects.

Its interesting that both Levitre and Unger both went to University in Oregon. They both have a nasty on field attitude. And both have played all 3 positions on the O-line. I'd love if the Pats got one or BOTH of them....

 

[BradyManny]

Both of them? Are you ready to use a 1st and a 2nd?

If we pull off a tag and trade with Cassel that affords us 09 picks, then, we might have picks to spare. It sounds like theres enough OL talent in rounds 2-5 though that it won't be an issue. Of course, guys that a couple months ago were mid round are showing up as early round on the draft sites already. Unfortunately, all the guys noted as athletic or good in zone blocking - and therefore good for the Pats - tended to rise last year, and it looks like it'll happen again. Duane Brown comes to mind.

 

[mgteich]

We don't require that our 1st rounder be an instant starter. Even Wilfork didn't get all the reps. Meriweather certainly didn't. If the value is there, I would expect us to consider Unger and Mack. However, the final choice depends (for me) on who we have re-signed, signed, traded for and extended by draft day. Given that we have four guards (including the backup center) that have contracts ending this year and next, I think an interior OL is a strong possibility.

Of course, OT is also of interest. We will need to wait, but we may have few on our board at 24. It seems likely that a couple will be on our (well dryheat and our) second and third round value groupings.

I know it is early, but there seems to be quality at OG in the early part of this draft.

I wouldn't think so, they may be on the value board for the 2nd round picks but not at 24. With other needs of defense I would be surprised to see them take a backup guard in the first round. They took Mankins at pick 32 and he has started every game since, that year they had an open spot after ANdruzzi left.

Looking at OT, it appears to be another strong class. There may be a very good tackle available at 24, someone who would be an upgrade at RT with potential to move to the left side in a couple of years.

IMO the first pick will be based primarily on best value, the round 2 picks with be based on defense and in round 3-4 they add a lineman (OT/G hybrid) and then in the later rounds look for a developmental prospect.

 

[cstjohn17]

We don't require that our 1st rounder be an instant starter. Even Wilfork didn't get all the reps. Meriweather certainly didn't. If the value is there, I would expect us to consider Unger and Mack. However, the final choice depends (for me) on who we have re-signed, signed, traded for and extended by draft day. Given that we have four guards (including the backup center) that have contracts ending this year and next, I think an interior OL is a strong possibility.

Of course, OT is also of interest. We will need to wait, but we may have few on our board at 24. It seems likely that a couple will be on our (well dryheat and our) second and third round value groupings.

I know it is early, but there seems to be quality at OG in the early part of this draft.

I guess, if you want to use the 24 & 48 for guards knock yourself out. My war room will be looking for an impact defensive player but won't reach. OT seems deeper especially since it seems like 1/2 the league took OTs last year.

 

[mgteich]

I guess we disagree on how Belichick operates his war room. I agree that we will be looking for an impact defensive player but don't want to reach. BTW, I bet almost all posters here agree as well as almost all posters for other teams. How many don't want a shut down corner with all-pro potential? How many don't want a pass-rusher who will lead the league is sacks? Who doesn't want a player good enough to replace Wilfork at NT?

The question is what who will be on the 10-15 patriot list that they are targeting at #24, and what is the list 10-15 players that the patriots will be targeting in the latter half of the 2nd round, and the latter half of the third round. We will also have a list for the 12-24 range (the middle of the first round) for possible trade-ups (what would we trade to get S William Moore?).

BTW, if you are right, an OT might be a great value at 24.
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Also, we did draft defensive impact players last year. Mayo was a first year star. Wheatley and Wilhite remain to be heard from. They are both developing as well as Samuel did.

I do expect us to see corners, safeties, and ILB's to be on our Day one value groupings. And given the players in this draft, I also expect to see offensive linemen. And as we well know (and of which we rarely speak), TE and WR are likely on Belichick's lists for the first 100 picks (our first five picks).

I guess, if you want to use the 24 & 48 for guards knock yourself out. My war room will be looking for an impact defensive player but won't reach. OT seems deeper especially since it seems like 1/2 the league took OTs last year.

 

[DaBruinz]

Both of them? Are you ready to use a 1st and a 2nd?

I might be ready by with that plan draft time, depending on re-signings, free agency signings and extensions. Dante likes to have at least one veteran backup interior lineman. However, he might make an exception if he has both these prospects.

MG - I don't believe that either is going to go in the 1st round. Not with the level of talent this draft is shaping up to have

 

[cstjohn17]

The question is what who will be on the 10-15 patriot list that they are targeting at #24, and what is the list 10-15 players that the patriots will be targeting in the latter half of the 2nd round, and the latter half of the third round. We will also have a list for the 12-24 range (the middle of the first round) for possible trade-ups (what would we trade to get S William Moore?).

I understand the value part but I just don't think there are any lineman that are going to play guard better than Neal or Mankins in 2009. And I doubt that the Patriots have any guards rated from 10-15. First round picks should be expected to be contributors early on and at least strong rotational players by the end of the year.

One thing is for sure, don't let anything surprise you. Outside of QB, Punter, Kicker there is no position that would be a total shock.

 

[DaBruinz]

I understand the value part but I just don't think there are any lineman that are going to play guard better than Neal or Mankins in 2009. And I doubt that the Patriots have any guards rated from 10-15. First round picks should be expected to be contributors early on and at least strong rotational players by the end of the year.

One thing is for sure, don't let anything surprise you. Outside of QB, Punter, Kicker there is no position that would be a total shock.

You are being short-sighted in your analysis. First and foremost, as has been discussed in numerous other threads, Hochstein, Yates, Neal, and Mankins are ALL free agents this year or next. Hochstein Neal are UFA. Yates and Mankins are RFA, but could be UFA depending on the status of the CBA. On top of that, Neal will be 33 starting the 2010 season. You don't think the Pats should bring in a C/G who will be able to step in and replace him then?

You are starting to sound like Mel Kiper with your claims. Most people felt that Logan Mankins wasn't on the Pats list for the 1st round in 2005. Yet, he was. I would have no doubt that there will be some surprise names on the BB/Pioli list that none of us know about.

 

[cstjohn17]

You are being short-sighted in your analysis. First and foremost, as has been discussed in numerous other threads, Hochstein, Yates, Neal, and Mankins are ALL free agents this year or next. Hochstein Neal are UFA. Yates and Mankins are RFA, but could be UFA depending on the status of the CBA. On top of that, Neal will be 33 starting the 2010 season. You don't think the Pats should bring in a C/G who will be able to step in and replace him then?

You are starting to sound like Mel Kiper with your claims. Most people felt that Logan Mankins wasn't on the Pats list for the 1st round in 2005. Yet, he was. I would have no doubt that there will be some surprise names on the BB/Pioli list that none of us know about.

Mankins came in and started, there was an open position. To draft a player in the first round with the intention of siting them on the bench for a year (except for QB) minimizes the investment. Instead of 5 years of production you are left with 4. Mankins was also picked at #32, more talent should be available at 24.

Again IMO I think OT could be a possibility at 24 but not guard.

 

[DaBruinz]

Mankins came in and started, there was an open position. To draft a player in the first round with the intention of siting them on the bench for a year (except for QB) minimizes the investment. Instead of 5 years of production you are left with 4. Mankins was also picked at #32, more talent should be available at 24.

Again IMO I think OT could be a possibility at 24 but not guard.

Mankins came in and WON the position. It wasn't handed to him.

As for your claims that it minimizes your investment. How about you do some fact checking. OH wait, that's right. There are not facts on the internet. Just interpretations *stiffles a laugh*. Why don't you look up how many times Neal has been injured and how many games he's missed. Then, look at Wilfork and Warren and Graham and see that they started off on the bench, LEARNING. They were only pressed into service when they earned it.

The Pats use their reserve linemen at TEs and as lead fullbacks in their elephant package. And, as I mentioned, Neal has a history of being injured. Not to mention that he'll be 32. But you keep thinking that the Patriots shouldn't plan for the future. In no time, you'll have them looking like the Detroit Lions.

 

[mgteich]

Some years there are more OL's with first round talent than in others. As of now, Huddle has 5 first round tackles and 4 first round interior lienmen. That number will likely be reduced as more juniors come out, possibly making one of these available in the second, perhaps with a trade up. Meriweather did NOT start. He was not expected to. I do NOT expect us to draft an offensive lineman at 24. However, I certainly expect several linemen to be on the patriot value board as we approach the 24th pick. Last year, many liked Clady and not much else. Many thought that Clady would have been a great pick for us. We got a better pick in Mayo, but I would have been well satidfied with Clady on our team.

How different is the situation in 2009? This year, I suspect there is more top OG/C talent than in 2008. It is not often that there are centers with first or second round talent. The top center is often drafted in the 4th. That just won't happen this year. The top THREE centers and the top THREE guards might get drafted before we pick in the 2nd. The good news is that we might still get a 2010 starting OG/OC in the 2nd.

 

[Silverquick]

I noticed a few people mention Alex Mack here and it would be no surprise to me if BB goes with him in the first round.

Granted, its impossible to predict the draft accurately, but Mack seems like the sort of guy that BB would like: smart, studious, hard-working, and tough. Why not take him? Then we can gamble on a playmaking-type defender like Larry English later on.