Needs Analysis: Linebacker

[cstjohn17]

I KNOW many of us wanted Bradley. And I know that, if the Pats had him, things would be different. How different? Who knows. What I do know is that I hope the Pats make a full court press to get this kid when he's a UFA.

Speaking about UFAs, could you imagine if the Patriots landed Adam Seyward? The guy is apparently better than LT and **** Butkus combined.

 

[RayClay]

On the first point, the answer is nobody. I didn't to claim that the Patriots succeeded in developing anybody at LB. I was just responding to a poster who said that the Ravens & Steelers "did things the right way" by trying to develop late-round and UDFA guys behind premium players then drafting day 1 when the need became urgent. That poster seemed to be lamenting that the Pats didn't follow that same strategy. In fact, the Pats followed that exact same strategy. I'd argue they just waited a year too long to shift to phase 2 (not that I'm still obsessed with the Stewart Bradley episode or anything. No, not me.)

On the Steelers' drafts -- my post was responding to an argument for drafting outside pass-rushers high, I was talking ONLY about that position, not ILB. That's why my statements must have looked odd to you.

Well, I can't follow all that and I'm not in the mood to reread my rant (I was a little irritable when I wrote it).

Suffice it to say that when you draft and trade for tons of quality (presuming high draft status indicates that) linebackers and also grab good looking free agents, you'll be more likely to be successful than if you buy one lottery ticket and hold on to it for 2-3 years and hope it's a winner when you need it.

Rich people get lucky. Success breeds success.

 

[DaBruinz]

Speaking about UFAs, could you imagine if the Patriots landed Adam Seyward? The guy is apparently better than LT and **** Butkus combined.

What would you do if they did sign Seward and he ended up starting next to Mayo?

I have no idea if they will or not. But, I for one, would laugh my butt off over people like yourself who sit here and continue to make sarcastic garbage comments about something from the previous free agency.

 

[RayClay]

The question where is the greater value in the upcoming draft, at defensive back or at linebacker. I'm leaning more defensive back right now, I would like to see another OLB drafted in the first 2 rounds this year, but would be leaning more second then first. I would settle for a third.

But I think the situation with the DBs needs to be addressed first.

I'll guarantee you, this "value only" drafting is way overrated in actual practice. that's a long term strategy. If you're spaghetti dinner has everything but meatballs, you don't buy eggrolls.

Of course good teams don't draft strictly for need, but drafting high value players at a position where you can't use them is foolish in a league where trades are rare.

Belichick has said as much himself. They need linebackers. If they don't find top talent they end up with what's left and cross their fingers

 

[cstjohn17]

What would you do if they did sign Seward and he ended up starting next to Mayo?

I have no idea if they will or not. But, I for one, would laugh my butt off over people like yourself who sit here and continue to make sarcastic garbage comments about something from the previous free agency.

I would not be surprised if he starter, hell by the pub he was getting he is a lock to be an all pro. As it stands I think they have enough young wanna bes, I doubt he gets a look.

 

[RayClay]

What would you do if they did sign Seward and he ended up starting next to Mayo?

I have no idea if they will or not. But, I for one, would laugh my butt off over people like yourself who sit here and continue to make sarcastic garbage comments about something from the previous free agency.

I wouldn't mind them trying him out at all. The less you spend, the more trial and work you need to put in. They need to have a turnstile full of prospects if they don't want to draft.

[Obviously, they could be in good shape if the spend a 1st and third every year, so we don't know if last year started a new strategy or not.]

 

[DaBruinz]

I would not be surprised if he starter, hell by the pub he was getting he is a lock to be an all pro. As it stands I think they have enough young wanna bes, I doubt he gets a look.

No, thats just more exaggeration and BS from the "naysayers" like yourself. Most people felt that he could come in and learn the position behind Bruschi and be in the rotation to take pressure off of both Bruschi and Mayo. No one was claiming he'd been an All Pro.

I have news for you, the Pats only have 3 young ILBs in Guyton, Mayo and Ruud. Ruud spent all of the year on the IR much like Oscar Lua before him. If they could find an upgrade over Ruud (and there are plenty early in this draft) then it would behoove them to do so. Especially when I don't see them bringing back Alexander and they may not bring back Izzo.

 

[RayClay]

I think you're letting a crush on the Steelers affect reality. Out of the 11 linebackers on the Steelers roster, FIVE were signed as undrafted free agents, including James Harrison. Two more (Farrior and Fox) were drafted by other teams and signed FA. That makes four linebackers on the roster drafted by the Steelers, one in each round 1-4 over the last few years. The first and third rounders have done nothing so far. If they're so infallible, why was Vrabel a reserve defensive end for them? They've traded Kendrell Bell, who was a 2nd round bust for them.

Sometimes the grass just looks greener.

Have they consistently drafted and signed linebackers, yes. Have we, no. Nothing wrong with getting quality out of free agents. I haven't seen Pittsburgh's linebackers fall apart from one injury, or wear out by the end of the year.

Ours?......

Kind of silly to mention vrabel as a weakness for them. Why not turn it around and say the only completely successful addition since the Parcells era couldn't crack the Steelers lineup.

Clever people can rationalize anything. You can't rationalize little scatbacks running through your linebackers like a keystone cops sketch, or occasional fatigue breakdowns near years end where the interior defense is just gouged on the ground and through the air.

Can't rationalize how your 310 lb. DE gets 8 sacks on a 3-4 defense either. Playing mostly 3-4 we have 10 sacks from LBs and fourteen from the line.

I thought the 3 linemen were supposed to take on double teams while the linebackers rushed?

 

[RayClay]

Then you definitely don't want to read this bit from the incomparable Football Outsiders:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008

We have to wait until we get a good value. He was supposed to go one pick later, so we had to draft some reserve OL so we could cut him.

 

[dryheat44]

Have they consistently drafted and signed linebackers, yes. Have we, no. Nothing wrong with getting quality out of free agents. I haven't seen Pittsburgh's linebackers fall apart from one injury, or wear out by the end of the year.

Ours?......

Kind of silly to mention vrabel as a weakness for them. Why not turn it around and say the only completely successful addition since the Parcells era couldn't crack the Steelers lineup.

Clever people can rationalize anything. You can't rationalize little scatbacks running through your linebackers like a keystone cops sketch, or occasional fatigue breakdowns near years end where the interior defense is just gouged on the ground and through the air.

Can't rationalize how your 310 lb. DE gets 8 sacks on a 3-4 defense either. Playing mostly 3-4 we have 10 sacks from LBs and fourteen from the line.

I thought the 3 linemen were supposed to take on double teams while the linebackers rushed?

I gotta say, I disagree somewhat with your positions, but I LOVE your metaphors. I'll be appropriating the eggroll one for my own personal use.

 

[dryheat44]

As long as you and Uncle Heatster are snuggled down with your Rainbow Ripple, I've identified Clint Sintim as an OLB whom I like to move inside at SILB...any thoughts?

I like him more as an OLB, and I think he'd almost certainly start out on the outside, but he certainly has the size and ability to play the inside. But like Adalius, I think he'd be moving away from his strengths. I guess we'll have to see.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I like him more as an OLB, and I think he'd almost certainly start out on the outside, but he certainly has the size and ability to play the inside. But like Adalius, I think he'd be moving away from his strengths. I guess we'll have to see.

Fair 'nuff.

 

[dryheat44]

As long as you and Uncle Heatster are snuggled down with your Rainbow Ripple, I've identified Clint Sintim as an OLB whom I like to move inside at SILB...any thoughts?

To comment further, what if BB went exclusively with guys who played in a 3-4 under Saban or Groh for his defensive picks? We want immediate contributors? We could do much worse than coming out of the draft with Sintim, Aaron Clark and/or Antonio Appleby (I like Clark, since he shares a name with my Bronco-backing brother-in-law), Rashard Johnson, and maybe throw in Sharrod Davis from Fresno for good measure. We'd have a good head start on filling some of those available roles.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Can't rationalize how your 310 lb. DE gets 8 sacks on a 3-4 defense either. Playing mostly 3-4 we have 10 sacks from LBs and fourteen from the line.

I thought the 3 linemen were supposed to take on double teams while the linebackers rushed?

It's probably just me, but that tells me something about how well the linebackers are rushing the passer. Though I'd like to see the number for QB pressures and TFLs as well.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

To comment further, what if BB went exclusively with guys who played in a 3-4 under Saban or Groh for his defensive picks? We want immediate contributors? We could do much worse than coming out of the draft with Sintim, Aaron Clark and/or Antonio Appleby (I like Clark, since he shares a name with my Bronco-backing brother-in-law), Rashard Johnson, and maybe throw in Sharrod Davis from Fresno for good measure. We'd have a good head start on filling some of those available roles.

Interesting premise, though I'm not really interested in Appleby. One wonders if Clark will get any attention after missing the season with a knee injury.

 

[nickw308810]

After watching last night's game, does anyone think Brandon Spikes could be a 3-4 OLB? Just a thought...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

After watching last night's game, does anyone think Brandon Spikes could be a 3-4 OLB? Just a thought...

OLB? Not so much, but he'd work out just fine at ILB.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

Interesting premise, though I'm not really interested in Appleby. One wonders if Clark will get any attention after missing the season with a knee injury.

I had Appleby as one my prime picks in the 4th - 5th round. You couldn't see him as a 2-down thumper at the SILB? Why don't you like him?

 

[mgteich]

LINEBACKERS
Apparenty, two young ILB's in not enough for some here. And two certainly isn't enough for some at OLB.

What do you guys think the appropriate for the eight linebacker positions. I understand that an additional linebacker might make it as a special teamer, but I am just talking about the position players.

I would think that the roster should include 4 OLB's and 3 ILB's, with at least one experienced veteran in each group. I also think that we should always have room for a developmental linebacker since the system takes a year to learn for anyone not name Mayo.

OLB (4)
Vrabel, Thomas
Woods, Crabel

ILB (3)
Mayo, Guyton
Bruschi (Bruschi could start the season and split reps with Guyton)

DEVELOPMENTAL LB (1) usually inactive
Redd/Robertson/Craig/draftee

There is certainly room on the roster for ONE linebacker. If he is good enough, he could move Crabel to the developmental list. There is room for a second if you want to cut Woods before the draft, by not tendering him.
==========================
I suspect some would cut Woods and draft an ILB and OLB or bring them in free agency. What say you all.

For me, at ILB I don't know how the team evaluates Guyton. If he is expected to be our future starter at ILB, we'd be looking for a backup ILB for the future to replace Bruschin 2010 and possibly compete with Guyton for reps. If Guyton's potential is more limited, then we should draft an ILB on Day One. For me, at OLB, I would keep Woods at least for the year and see what we have in Crable and how long we expect Vrabel to play. I would not be adding an OLB.

 

[BradyManny]

After watching last night's game, does anyone think Brandon Spikes could be a 3-4 OLB? Just a thought...

Spikes looked good at times last nite, but other times was taken out.

Was Oklahoma game planning for him? It did seem like they always made sure they had a guard get to him quickly (some of those blocks looked iffy by the way, and I think some of the chippiness between Spikes and the OL probably had to do with the fact he didn't like his knees being targetd). Of course, sometimes Florida just didn't have enough men in the box to deal with the running game, so that might've been part of it.

But he wasn't really shedding those big guards consistently, game-planning or not, and that's a little worrisome if he'd be a SILB in the Pats system. He's great in space, he drops into coverage smoothly. Maybe he's ultimately too much like Mayo and would be a WILB in our system.

Still, he's high on my list.