NE/CIN observations

[supafly]

I blame McDaniels and Belichick's pigheadedness for this. The Patriots need to stop ******* about and just run their best back. When Vereen is back I'd be happy to see Boldin and Blount get less than 3 touches per game each.

I agree with you very much.

I'm just pointing out that a position that we were once much better at is much closer than many are giving credit to, and that may be due to the overall effectiveness of their high powered passing attack alone, as they are setting the opposition up for the run/pass and pass/run combos.

As we know, when the passing game is as productive as theirs is, it's also going to open up the run; and I think they've been much more effective with their running so far this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

How exactly does saying they scored just over 26 PPG is distorting them scoring 23, 26 and 30 lol Like I said it's not like there are outliers there.

Ummm.... there is an outlier there. It's the 30 point game. This team has scored more than 23 points just once. Your attempt to use the 30 point game in order to lift a pair of 23 points games is just weak sauce.

The 30 point game is a full touchdown more than the Patriots have scored in any other game.

Honestly I didn't feel like typing the same thing out again but if you want I will. They struggled in 2 games and the other 3 they put up 23, 26, and 30 points, happy? Oh f*** I guess that 23 really kills my argument now that I look at it

I bet you enjoyed typing up that first paragraph so much that I'll let it be.

Given that you're posting isn't really making honest sense, it's probably for the best. There's no need to overrate the Patriots. If the Patriots youth brigade improves, the roster question will become a closer one.

 

[MassPats38]

what are you talking about? they already beat baltimore. and they just got punched in the mouth by Dallas and they punched back and won.

The Ravens D is not particularly good anymore (in 2007, they had a good D), and the Dallas D flat out blows. I have no doubt Denver can win shootouts against inept Ds.

It is tough to attack an offense that is cranking out those numbers at this point in the season, regardless of opponents. Sadly, the tough defenses (Seattle, Niners, Cincy and not sure who else fits that bill right now) are not on the Broncos schedule. The debate will go on, until the Donkeys lose.

 

[cstjohn17]

Absolutely, which also leads me to wonder how effective/ineffective our blocking TE's have been to this point?

One would think that having 2 TE's who do nothing but block, along with bringing in Cannon to replace Solder and splitting him out as a TE would help, and that isn't even bringing into account the role of James Devlin on the team, along with the role of the blitz pickup of the RB.

We should've been able to combat their pressure a bit better in my opinion.

I watched the game on DVR but it did seem the majority of the time there was not a blitz. ESPN confirms this.

From ESPN
"The Bengals did it with a familiar formula that Patriots followers have seen in the past -- batter Brady by winning the battle at the line of scrimmage -- as coach Marvin Lewis later gave coordinator Mike Zimmer a game ball. While the Bengals generated pressure with the standard four rushers, the blitz also was effective, as they sent extra rushers on 12 of Brady’s 41 dropbacks, according to ESPN Stats & Information tracking, and totaled three of their four sacks with the added pressure. "

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I watched the game on DVR but it did seem the majority of the time there was not a blitz. ESPN confirms this.

From ESPN
"The Bengals did it with a familiar formula that Patriots followers have seen in the past -- batter Brady by winning the battle at the line of scrimmage -- as coach Marvin Lewis later gave coordinator Mike Zimmer a game ball. While the Bengals generated pressure with the standard four rushers, the blitz also was effective, as they sent extra rushers on 12 of Brady’s 41 dropbacks, according to ESPN Stats & Information tracking, and totaled three of their four sacks with the added pressure. "

the line needs to do a better job against these great defensive fronts. this has been the pats achilles heal against teams like the giants, ravens and lions for years. Why scharnnecia can't get these guys to perform better against good DLs...i have no idea. maybe the talent on the OL is not there - i have never been sold on wendell at center. solder has not lived up to the hype either.

 

[IndianPat]

I am okay with this loss. The play on offense was uninspired. On the other hand, our defensive play was inspirational. I do think we have a defense that can win a championship. I haven't seen this spate of injuries to playmakers in recent years. I will be okay with a loss next week, too. What I would like to see though, is the defense contain the Saints to under 21 points. I am looking forward to the coming week for some personnel moves and a trade for a heavyweight on the defensive line.
There also appears to be a discussion going on in this thread about Denver's dominance. Denver's offense is playing lights out right now. Manny's play is out of this world. Will they have hiccups? They might - once or twice. Will they have a hard time in cold? They might. But, that day was not today. They scored at will against a Dallas defense that's on par with the Patriot's defense.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Ummm.... there is an outlier there. It's the 30 point game. This team has scored more than 23 points just once. Your attempt to use the 30 point game in order to lift a pair of 23 points games is just a weak attempt at a deception.

It was not a weak attempt, I think you are the one making major assumptions here in judging my intentions. Is it really that big of a deal saying 26 PPG instead of 23, 26, and 30. Though I do see a mistake as the TB game we scored 23, not 26. So it's 23, 23 (not 26), and 30 which is still solid offensive output and if we weren't used to the offenses of '11 and '12 I doubt many would complain too much about those.

 

[mgteich]

We have made much that with Brady we have the best offense in the NFL (or one of the best) independent of the play of the rest of the offense. We are testing that idea.

I will focus on TWO issues, focusing on Brady. This could be a cause or an effect. Brady does not seem to have the option to get the ball out fast when there is pressure (they were timing Peyton at around 1.6 - 2.0 seconds) and Brady hasn't been willing/able to throw to a spot before a receiver even makes a break.

In the end, a receiver is open and we say that Brady missed him. It is much more complicated than that.

In the end, everyone looked awful. IMHO, having a blocking TE and receivers who could be expected to read the play and react are the keys.

BTW, this is nothing new. The situation just caught up with us because our opponents played a great game.

 

[Deus Irae]

It was not a weak attempt, I think you are the one making major assumptions here in judging my intentions. Is it really that big of a deal saying 26 PPG instead of 23, 26, and 30. Though I do see a mistake as the TB game we scored 23, not 26. So it's 23, 23 (not 26), and 30 which is still solid offensive output and if we weren't used to the offenses of '11 and '12 I doubt many would complain too much about those.

Using a 30 point game to puff up a pair of 23 point games is abundantly obvious. One need not make any assumptions there.

 

[Deus Irae]

We ahve made much that with Brady we have the best offense in the NFL (or one of the best) independent of the play of the rest of the offense. We are testing that idea.

I will focus on TWO issues, focusing on brady. This could be a cause or an effect. Brady does not seem to have the option to get the ball out fast when there is pressure (they were timing Peyton at around 1.6 - 2.0 seconds) and Brady hasn't been willing/able to throw to a spot before a receiver even makes a break.

In the end, a receiver is open and we say that Brady missed him. It is much more complicated than that.

In the end, everyone looked awful. IMHO, having a blocking TE and receivers who could be expected to read the play and react are the keys.

The Patriots passing game has developed into one that focuses mainly on quick release short and mid-range passes. There's nobody in the NFL who can do that better than Brady.

Unfortunately, the Patriots current receivers cannot get open quickly without gimmickry like bubble screens and rubs, and those can only work so often. Brady is now being forced to do several unfamiliar things:

• Consistently hold the ball for 3+ seconds so receivers can break loose
  
• Adjust his passes from the "right" routes to the "wrong" routes being run by the receivers
  
• Find a way to move the chains without his 3rd down RB and Slot WR binkies
  
• deal with Godawful TE play
  
• Deal with an unaccepable number of pass drops which continue to slow, or derail, drives.

It's obviously frustrating him, and the line play isn't helping any. A healthy Amendola and Gronk should go a long way towards fixing some of the above.

 

[Triumph]

The Bengals defense just matched up well with the NE offense. Zimmer is a very competent DC. That, combined with mistakes equals a loss. Virtually everyone on NEs offense made mistakes, played or coached poorly today.

The NE defense held the Bengals to 17 points and Kelly left the game. This was a game where you were hoping for defensive scoring some way, shape or form.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Using a 30 point game to puff up a pair of 23 point games is abundantly obvious. One need not make any assumptions there.

Feel free to make assumptions on my intent. Whichever way you word it, 23/23/30 is a solid output offensively, let alone for a team missing it's top weapon, three of it's top weapons for 2 of the games.

 

[mgteich]

The Patriots passing game has developed into one that focuses mainly on quick release short and mid-range passes. There's nobody in the NFL who can do that better than Brady.

Unfortunately, the Patriots current receivers cannot get open quickly without gimmickry like bubble screens and rubs, and those can only work so often. Brady is now being forced to do several unfamiliar things:

• Consistently hold the ball for 3+ seconds so receivers can break loose
  
• Adjust his passes from the "right" routes to the "wrong" routes being run by the receivers
  
• Find a way to move the chains without his 3rd down RB and Slot WR binkies
  
• deal with Godawful TE play
  
• Deal with an unaccepable number of pass drops which continue to slow, or derail, drives.

It's obviously frustrating him, and the line play isn't helping any. A healthy Amendola and Gronk should go a long way towards fixing some of the above.

This is an excellent analysis (after all, I agree with all you say). As long as the team has to deal with the above situations, they will look awful. I will note that you reasonably didn't mention anything about OL play or Brady's play. IMHO, the OL and Brady will continue to look awful until there is improvement in at least some of the areas mentioned in your post.

 

[Deus Irae]

Feel free to make assumptions on my intent. Whichever way you word it, 23/23/30 is a solid output offensively, let alone for a team missing it's top weapon, three of it's top weapons for 2 of the games.

You continue to lump the 30 in with the 23s in an attempt to bolster the PPG, thus reinforcing what I'm saying. You also keep making excuses about players being missing while not granting that same courtesy to the Broncos.

As I said, assumptions aren't needed. You've made it obvious.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is an excellent analysis (after all, I agree with all you say). As long as the team has to deal with the above situations, they will look awful. I will note that you reasonably didn't mention anything about OL play or Brady's play. IMHO, the OL and Brady will continue to look awful until there is improvement in at least some of the areas mentioned in your post.

I think it's tough to evaluate both the line and the QB, given that they are currently so far out of their usual comfort zone. We might be able to point to some individual plays, but we'd really be just guessing on most of them. Brady's long throw to the sideline when Dobson cut to the middle is a pretty good example of that, I think.

Also, the Patriots are using a lot of play action, which actually limits Brady's reads, and his ability to adjust his reads is usually one of his strengths, so the offense is wasting a lot of what makes Brady so great. All World TE would be an excellent person to explain, if he were posting over here.

 

[patsfan-1982]

any team with a good pass rush up the middle is going to give Brady fits with or with out Gronk but now they have the defense to keep them in the game when that happens. I just don't get why they only had 18 rush att when they were getting over 4 yards per att in a close game,


I hope Stevan Ridley comes back soon and they start giving him he's 20 att per game again because all RB's fumble and he's a much better back then LeGarrette Blount

 

[DocHoliday]

any team with a good pass rush up the middle is going to give Brady fits with or with out Gronk but now they have the defense to keep them in the game when that happens. I just don't get why they only had 18 rush att when they were getting over 4 yards per att in a close game,


I hope Stevan Ridley comes back soon and they start giving him he's 20 att per game again because all RB's fumble and he's a much better back then LeGarrette Blount

I don't see what Ridley alone would add to this team. Is he better than Blount? Sure, somewhat. Is he solving any particular problem? Nope.

 

[ATippett56]

Otherwise we've put up 23, 26, and 30 points - not too shabby at all minus arguably the most potent weapon in the league.

I did not realize that Megatron was on the New England Patriots roster.

 

[Observer]

but he's right


offensive execution is the only thing denver is doing better than the patriots.

Yeah, it's such a minor detail isn't it?

 

[mb6592]

At this current point in time, it's a much bigger debate than many are giving credit to. We've seen 5 games of lessened production from Ridley compared to their much improved play from Knowshon Moreno:

Moreno---331 yards rushing 4 TD's 13 receptions 127 yards

Ridley ---174 yards rushing 0 TD's 3 receptions 34 yards

Exactly. People are confusing last couple of years Moreno with this years Moreno. We don't have a back on the roster that is playing the caliber of football that Moreno is playing THIS year.