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Nature's moving quickly

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Sep 21, 2011.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's remarkable how quickly we are amassing record temperatures. I wonder why nature is in such a haste to raise temps, or is it plausible that the enormous amount of human activity is actually having an effect on the environment? Nahh, I'm a denier, so I don't believe in commonsense, let alone science ;) I wonder if the 2010s will break the record of the 2000s, the warmest decade on record (NASA GISS: Research News: 2009: Second Warmest Year on Record; End of Warmest Decade).

    Hot Summer of 2011 Rewrites Record Books | Climate Central

    The summer of 2011 has rewritten the record books.

    Using our record temperature tracker (see below), which draws on the National Climatic Data Center's database, we found that June, July, and August saw more warm temperature records tied or broken than any other summer in the past decade: more than 26,500 record warm temperatures were set across the nation. By comparison, fewer than 3,500 record low temperatures were set — the fewest of any summer in the past decade. These records are daily records — that is, each day’s high and low temperature is compared to the high and lows for that day of the year in the weather station’s history. In addition to the daily records, numerous monthly records were set. In Texas, for example, this summer will go down in history as the warmest summer on record.

    A map showing all of the warm and cold temperature records set during June, July, and August across the US.

    Not only that, but NOAA announced today that Texas had the warmest summer for any state in the US going back to when instrument records began in 1895. Oklahoma came in second, with both states beating records set during the infamous "Dust Bowl" era in the 1930s.

    http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/environment/2011-01-12-2010-warmest-year-climate-change_N.htm

    Last year (2010) tied with 2005 as the world's warmest on record, according to data released Wednesday by the National Climatic Data Center. Records began in 1880.

    It was also the wettest year on record globally as measured by average precipitation, according to the center. Heavy rain in Asia due to the monsoon (which led to disastrous floods in Pakistan) and tropical storms in Central America contributed to the extreme precipitation amounts.

    The Earth's average temperature in 2010, as in 2005, was 58.12 degrees, which is 1.12 degrees above the 20th-century average of 57 degrees.
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Earth's temperature has been fluctuating for thousands and thousands of years. We unfortunately inhabited it like it would never change - thus the problem.
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The 1930's and 40's were warmer as per this peer reviewed paper from 2008:

    http://www.pensee-unique.fr/courtillot3.pdf


    The issue of ground stations and the associated problems are well documented and are not reliable the paper cited used data from a set of stations that have continuous data sets, and have not been subject to relocation or Urban heat island effect.

    Looking at the satellite data which is 29 years old but more reliable temps have not increased on average over the past 15 years. More importantly the Oceans are cooling the climate alarmist are in trouble since the recorded temps are diverging from the model predictions. Note the 13 mth moving average has flattened against the predictions of the Climate Models.

    [​IMG]


    Ocean temps since the buoy measuring system has only been in place since 2002:

    [​IMG]



    And for the tropics note the effects of the El Nina:

    [​IMG]
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The planet has warmed and cooled throughout its billion years of existence.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not this quickly.
  6. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's okay. Venus, too, is a product of nature. We'll accelerate nature, give mother nature a helping hand, if you will, and the deniers will continue to insist that it's quite alright, because a plethora of new species will be encouraged by the changes to our environment that will spell catastrophe for humans. Oh and by the way, just because 98% of climate scientists think humans have a hand in it doesn't mean it's true.

    Your climate-science-accepting dupes say if you act and it was a big fake-out, no harm no foul, whereas if you don't act, well, global catastrophe. They cite their 98% of climate scientists as a proxy for the fact of the matter, and ignore the tiny bright spots of data that support denial positions.

    By contrast, more level-headed climate-science deniers say that the downside is the horror of a shuffle in power generation sources through political agreements to use less of one kind and more of another kind. That will hurt places that already use the first kind of power the most -- first among them, soon, China, and second, the United States. First per capita, of course, the U.S. This horrific downside should bolster the claims of the tiny minority of climate scientists still in denial mode, and make the world safe for more fossil fuel use.

    Now, in this more level-headed view, if you don't act, and they're wrong, the planet is essentially uninhabitable.

    But you have to weight the two: what's more important, that there be a planet, or that a corporate elite prosper from the extraction and use of fossil fuels? After all, renewable energy's infrastructure has not been built, whereas the fossil fuel infrastructure already represents vast government investment.

    Since the government has already advantaged fossil fuels so much over any possible alternative, for a hundred years, isn't it unfair to do the same for alternative energy sources? Isn't that choosing winners and losers, when we already chose the winner decades ago?

    No backsies!

    PFnV
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the past 18 months either in my neighbourhood or within 75 miles we have had 100 year floods, record breaking summer temperatures, terrific winter ice storms, tornadoes and a tropical storm that disrupted power for over 125 hours...

    There is something happening here.. if you think that what your are doing may have an effect, wouldn't you at least look at it as a possibility?? Instead of just dismissing it completely..

    The earth is angry...
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That statement is incorrect.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it's rather eerie the degree to which in Cambridge squirrels have been replaced by rabbits. We used to have so many squirrels, then about a year or two ago most of them disappeared. Now, some are back, but we also have a lot more bunnies.
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The 98% number is wrong the situation on Venus in no way resembles Earth. This would be like saying that since Mars has an atmosphere of all CO2 it should be warmer than earth.....:rolleyes:


    The 98% thing is nonsense also.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The temperatures are trending warmer at a very fast pace since the Industrial Revolution; of course there have always been anomalous years, and no doubt there have been major natural events, such as volcanic activity, that led to longer anomalies, but without an obvious precipitating favor, I have yet to read of such a short timespan with significant temperature changes.

    Global Warming : Feature Articles

    As the Earth moved out of ice ages over the past million years, the global temperature rose a total of 4 to 7 degrees Celsius over about 5,000 years. In the past century alone, the temperature has climbed 0.7 degrees Celsius, roughly ten times faster than the average rate of ice-age-recovery warming.
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So squirrles are affected by CO2?


    Good Lord :singing:

    More proof of Global Warming:

    Early Winter in Switzerland | Watts Up With That?


    [​IMG]


    Early snowfall in St. Moritz.
  13. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Isn't it obvious that the rabbits are eating the squirrels? ;)
  14. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Actually, yes it has. Our current state of affairs is not even a minor blip on the billions of years of earth history.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  15. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    You obviously don't have the first clue about how statistics work. You cannot compare a 100 year interval to a 5,000 year interval and draw intelligent conclusions. I doubt you realize how silly you look by trying to do precisely that.

    Your above statement is exactly like someone saying Brady Anderson is a better home run hitter than Hank Aaron because in 1996, Brady Anderson hit 50 home runs but Hank Aaron only averaged 33 home runs per season played.

    So I guess Brady Anderson is a better HR hitter, right?
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Zzzz....

    According to whom, and by what standard? You simply can't prove that to be true, and neither can scientists.
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I provided one link above. While I do not expect Wolfpack to back up his views with anything but juvenile insults; neither you nor pf13 have provided any evidence. I can find nothing to support abrupt global climate change, though regionally it's a different matter. What do you think is causing the abrupt climate change we are apparently facing (with temps increasing rapidly over the last 100 years)? Why do you think pollution has nothing to do with it?

    Another link, though I'm not familiar with the source:

    Abrupt Climate Changes (Global Warming)

    Although abrupt climate changes have happened throughout history, scientists who argue that global warming is extremely serious, point to the rapidity of recent climate changes, and that they are occurring at an increasing rate throughout the world. In contrast to the changes that have been studied, measured, examined, and analyzed over the last 20 years, events such as the Little Ice Age took place gradually over at least 120 years, if not longer. Some date the start of the period back to 1250, when the Atlantic Pack Ice started to grow, and suggest it was a cause of the Great Famine of 1315-17, with the serious glacial expansion taking place only since 1550, and the first significant climatic changes in non-Arctic Europe beginning in the early 17th century.

    By contrast, similar fluctuations in temperature (rising now, instead of falling as in the 1600s) in recent decades, have happened over a very short time, and the loss of large amounts of Antarctic ice have been evident over a 10-year period. The ability to track many of these changes from satellites has allowed geographers and scientists to identify other problems, such as the "Ozone Hole." .
  18. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    The only thing constant in nature is change.
  19. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    +1. If we ever had a sustained period of no-change-whatsoever in the climate, the liberal would blame that on republicans too and use that an just another tired excuse to advance their political agenda (which has absolutely nothing to do with actually solving any fictitious MMGW problems).
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2011
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    changes aren't permanent, but change is

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