Welcome to PatsFans.com

Nature's atrocities rival that of Truman's

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Mar 14, 2011.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,777
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    Thank God Japan has the stringent sort of safety regulations that may prevent a meltdown. But, nuclear energy has failed nonetheless. During this horrific time of crisis in Japan, the government has had to devote major resources to the nuclear crisis, there is no quick replacement for the nuclear energy, and there are explosions being felt miles away. But, the psychological impact, especially given Truman's atrocities against Japanese civilians, must be severe. Imagine the terror that people who are hungry, have lost everything, have lost loved ones must feel knowing that they are surrounded by failing nuclear plants. Between the earthquake, the tsunami, and the explosions at nuclear plants, this is a trauma that must rival that of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
  2. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,953
    Likes Received:
    179
    Ratings:
    +402 / 5 / -2

    Poor Frauders. Ignorant of both reality, and history itself.


    Thank god for Truman. His courage in making an extremely difficult decision, something only genuine leaders do, no doubt saved hundreds of thousands of lives.




    Did someone say atrocities?




    **VERY GRAPHIC** - google image search of Nanking Atrocities
    Nanking Atrocities - Google Search

    Nanking Massacre

    From Wikipedia

    The Nanking Massacre or Nanjing Massacre, also known as the Rape of Nanking, was a mass murder and war rape that occurred during the six-week period following the Japanese capture of the city of Nanjing (Nanking), the former capital of the Republic of China, on December 13, 1937 during the Second Sino-Japanese War. During this period, hundreds of thousands of Chinese civilians and disarmed soldiers were murdered and 20,000–80,000 women were raped[1] by soldiers of the Imperial Japanese Army.[2][3][4]


    YouTube - Massacre- Atrocities Against Humanity


    Japanese vets admit on film to Nanjing atrocities

    Last Updated: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 | 2:17 PM ET CBC News Back to

    Japanese director Tamaki Matsuoka, shown in Hong Kong on Tuesday, has fought to make her fellow citizens aware of Japan's wartime record of atrocities. (Vincent Yu/Associated Press) Activist Tamaki Matsuoka is challenging Japanese perceptions of the country's war record with a new documentary on the atrocities known as the Rape of Nanking.

    Her film, Torn Memories of Nanjing, combines the memories of Japanese war veterans with accounts by Chinese survivors of the massacres of 1937-38, after Japan captured the former capital city of Nanking.

    The film was shown at the Hong Kong International Film Festival on Sunday in its first screening outside Japan.

    In the documentary, Matsuoka captures former soldiers admitting for the first time to mass rape and to the masscre of unarmed civilians in Nanking, which is now called Nanjing.
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,777
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    Real, where I come from the murder of civilians in the name of war is called terrorism.

    There is ample evidence that the Japanese were defeated. Besides there is no justification for killing tens of thousands of the elderly, women, and children, but then perhaps you're more afraid of those groups than I am. But, as to your point, American propaganda does fool some of the people some of the time. Do you believe Washington never told a lie?
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,726
    Likes Received:
    73
    Ratings:
    +154 / 7 / -13

    Tell that to the families of the troops killed on Okinawa weeks before the bomb was dropped and don't forget the sight of women and children committing suicide to avoid 'capture' by the Americans.


    Speaking of deliberate atrocities there is UNIT 731.


    What happened there is terrible bringing up Turman is totally out of place IMO. Glad the reactors vessels are secure so far.
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,953
    Likes Received:
    179
    Ratings:
    +402 / 5 / -2

    Please. You're as ignorant of reality as would be an infant son. The Japs, very unlike they are now, were absolute savages then. The notion that they would have happily surrendered without a single shot fired is insulting to one's intelligence. It was a regrettable and unfortunate action for sure, but one that was required none the less. If it comes down to saving the lives of allies, at the cost of ending those of the japanese, I choose the allies 100 times out of 100. That is the unfortunate reality. Something that you can't understand because you simply can never grasp what's real.
  6. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,005
    Likes Received:
    242
    Ratings:
    +506 / 1 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    Where I come from, it has different labels that more accurately describe what actually happened, so that we can learn from it. What the Japanese did is called Total War. Horrific, yes. Terrorism, no.

    Calling everything bad in war terrorism is like calling everything left of center communism during the 1950s.
  7. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    6,005
    Likes Received:
    242
    Ratings:
    +506 / 1 / -1

    #54 Jersey

    I agree it's tasteless, but like Gifford's shooting taught us, people will stoop to all kinds of levels to get in a political shot. I can't imagine why we have a toxic environment in Washington today.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,777
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    Oh, come on, the "Japs" were "savages"? If that's not racist stereotyping on your part I don't know what is.

    No one said that the Japanese would have happily surrendered, but they were negotiating, and many people felt the mass murder of civilians was unnecessary. That said, there was a concerted propaganda campaign to rewrite American history; I guess that's where you got your idea of the "Japs" being "savages." They were a dangerous, but defeated enemy.

    Hiroshima: Quotes

    "During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'."

    - Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,394
    Likes Received:
    125
    Ratings:
    +307 / 3 / -13

    Patters, most people would agree it's very LOW of you to use the catastrophe in Japan to make an idiotic past-tense political point.

    Why did you do that?

    No matter what your political POV, anyone would view the fact you posted an entire thread in an attempt to link this tragedy to something that is irrelevant.

    That's pretty sad on your part.

    Hang your head in shame...
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,777
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    I'm not sure what your point is, PR. My point was that the threat of radiation poisoning must be doubly traumatizing to the Japanese because of what happened in WWII. I'm not sure why you can't see the relationship between the two events. I don't think it's difficult at all. Do you not consider nuclear war an atrocity?
  11. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,394
    Likes Received:
    125
    Ratings:
    +307 / 3 / -13

    Like most Americans, I don't consider Hiroshima & Nagasaki atrocities. Never have, never will. Why don't you ask the Chinese survivors of WWII if they believe it was an atrocity?

    Your heart seems to weep for just about everything you think America has done wrong. You're not guilty of anything and neither are any of us.

    Has the United States ever done anything wrong? Yes, many, many times. Does my heart weigh heavy over any of them? No, it does not.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  12. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,952
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +195 / 2 / -2

    I don't think there's ample evidence that Japan was going to surrender. And there was far less evidence available at that time.

    Civilians die in all wars. Labeling all such deaths atrocities deprives the term of any real meaning.

    (The one area where you and I probably would agree is that I think many Americans do have a double standard in how they view our actions versus those of other nations. Understandable, perhaps, but not really defensible.)
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,777
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    Some pretty significant people, and certainly not liberals, felt dropping the bomb was unncessary:

    Hiroshima: Quotes

    It's terrorism if you intentionally kills civilians, and the fact that the US is the only nation in history to use atomic weapons is a disgrace to our values. Yes, civilians die in all wars, but only terrorists target them or don't give a damn who they kill.
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,394
    Likes Received:
    125
    Ratings:
    +307 / 3 / -13

    The US & Great Britain also purposefully targeted German civilians in the last days prior to Germany's surrender. We bombed city after city and pummeled them...look it up.

    "Up to the end of March 1945 there had been a total of 314 air raids on Berlin, with 85 of those coming in the last twelve months[32] Half of all houses were damaged and around a third uninhabitable, as much as 16 km² of the city was simply rubble. Estimates of the total number of dead in Berlin from air raids range from 20,000 to 50,000; current German studies suggest the lower figure is more likely.[33] This compares to death tolls of between 25,000 and 35,000 in the single attack on Dresden on 14 February 1945, and the 40,000 killed at Hamburg in a single raid in 1943. The relatively low casualty figure in Berlin is partly the result of the city's distance from airfields in Britain, which made big raids difficult before the liberation of France in late 1944, but also a testament to its superior air defences and shelters"

    Bombing of Berlin in World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "We shall bomb Germany by day as well as night in ever increasing measure, casting upon them month by month a heavier discharge of bombs, and making the German people taste and gulp each month a sharper dose of the miseries they have showered upon mankind." Winston Churchill

    "This air campaign killed an estimated 600,000 German civilians and destroyed or seriously..."

    Area Bombing

    Am I proud of that? No, but I'm not ashamed either...it was WORLD WAR II!!

    I watched a WWII special and they showed us bombing those cities in Germany and the narrator said point-blank that we targeted civilians to break any remaining moral they had left.

    Ask the survivors of auschwitz if they feel bad about it. Ask them if it was an atrocity!:rolleyes:

    I'll look forward to your reply.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,675
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Wierd perspective on this, Patters. Really wierd. Where did you get this idea? There is nothing left of the A-bomb survivor mentality in Japan to speak of. The people there are trying to survive this tsunami and nothing could be further from their minds as WWII right now.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  16. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,267
    Likes Received:
    28
    Ratings:
    +58 / 3 / -0

    #91 Jersey

    Its easy to sit behind a key board 60+ years after the fact and moralize. You have to put yourself in their shoes in 1945 and know what they knew and know what they felt to make any kind of judgment. Patters says these were civilians when in fact they all looked at themselves as warriors who would die to defened the Emperor who was seen as devine. The would have defended Him to the last man and women, the casualties would have been horrific. More people died during the fire bombing of Tokyo than died from Atomic boms attackes. More people on Both sides would have died if a full scale invasion had taken place. I have spent a great deal of time reading about WW11, i believe in the end that Truman made the right decession. In the past i have contimplated the idea of a demonstration of the A-bomb by detonationing one off the coast of Japan, but actually these were very crude garage bombs. what f it failed to detonate we would have alerted the Japanese about our intentions Etc.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,953
    Likes Received:
    179
    Ratings:
    +402 / 5 / -2

    Racist? LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!

    When do you know a moonbat has no logical leg to stand on? When they start tossing the term racist around. :rolleyes: Yes the japs. That's short for japanese. You know, like the "pols" is short for the polish. The "brits" short for the British. The yanks short for yankees. Pats for patriots. :rolleyes:

    As for savages, when you slice open pregnant women and kill the babies inside them, you're pretty much a savage. When you decapitate women and children you're a savage. When you rape tens of thousands, including children, you're savages. Just read up on the things the japs, ahem, the japanese did in China. Just read up on what they did to prisoners of war. Savages indeed.

    That's Eisenhowers opinion and he's entitled to it. Most would disagree. I think Truman did the right thing. Like I said, it's a regrettable and unfortunate action. Truly a choice you don't take any joy in making. It was the right decision none the less. The japs used to fight to the last man. They used to put armed grenades under their arm pits when surrending, because they knew the american soldiers would tell them to put their hands up when they approached. They did so only at the last possible moment so that the grenades would fall out as they put their arms up, killing the american soldiers nearby. They may have been defeated, but more american and allied lives would have been lost trying to prove to them so.
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,700
    Likes Received:
    157
    Ratings:
    +496 / 2 / -9

    Had Japan been able to produce and deliver an Atomic Bomb on the USA they would have done so in the blinking of an eye and every Jap in Japan including women and children would have danced in the streets and screamed "Banzai" fo a month, America beat them to it, Truman did what any leader would have done when at war in 1945, those were far different days than 2011.

    Read This Link:
    Bataan Death March - A Survivor's Story: The Bataan Death March


    I Harry Boy am very proud to say that I at the age of 17 was a truck driver working in Pasco Washington and participated in the making of the Atomic Bomb that ended WWII a war where thousands of young Americans were dying daily (I lost ten friends from my neighborhood during WWII 7 of them were slaughterd by the Japs.

    This is where I worked during 1943 and part of 1944.
    HistoryLink.org- the Free Online Encyclopedia of Washington State History
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2011
  19. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,585
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +45 / 13 / -9

    Patters never ceases to amaze me !
    I am just greatful that his lifesyle choice does not make it easy for him
    to reproduce.
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,952
    Likes Received:
    113
    Ratings:
    +195 / 2 / -2

    I don't deny that -- but it doesn't mean that Japan in fact would have surrendered.

    I didn't go through all of those, because they are mostly after the fact opinions that don't offer up evidence that japan would have surrendered.

    Look at macarthur, for one example: he doesn't claim that the Japanese would have surrendered. In fact, he says they wouldn't -- due to the condition of renouncing the emperor.


    By that definition, we were terrorists before dropping the bombs, and the Japanese, Germans and other Axis members were terrorists as well.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>