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National ID's

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by wistahpatsfan, May 6, 2007.

  1. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    There are so many problems with this idea that it's hard to know where to begin. Just another loss of state control to the federal consolidation of EVERYTHING. How hard will it be for someone to break into such a system and have their way with thousands of identities? With identity theft a major problem already, how can anyone think this will help keep us safer, not to mention help fight ID theft?

    BOSTON— A new federal antiterrorism program, aimed at setting up nationally linked computer databases in every state with information on personal ID cards and higher-security driver’s licenses, is running into opposition from states, including Massachusetts. Officials here say it would be expensive for the state, inconvenient for residents, may fail to improve security and would launch a black market for fake IDs.

    The Real ID Act, passed by Congress in 2005 and signed by President Bush, requires all U.S. residents without a passport to obtain a new state-issued type of driver’s license or ID card in order to board commercial airplanes, enter federal buildings, get Social Security benefits or get into other federal government programs, starting next May.

    Because residents of states that do not adopt the new high security licenses would be barred from boarding airplanes or accessing government programs, the controversy is developing into a major state-federal standoff. The act’s draft comment period ends Tuesday.

    http://www.telegram.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070506/NEWS/705060682/1116
  2. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    First off, National ID cards are barred by law, I forget the actual statue, but if you want to you can look it up, check under Title 8.

    The RealID Act is targeting specific states that basically hand out ID cards and Driver's Licenses to anyone, North Carolina is the biggest culprit. All it says is that before you issuse someone a DL, make sure that they are in the United STates legally, and that they are who they say they are.

    Now, if this law would have been in place on 9/11, how many of the hijackers would have been able to board planes?

    This law COMES DIRECTLY OUT OF THE HALLOWED 9/11 Commission and not the administration.
  3. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Once again, the use of fear by the state to get us to relinquish another level of privacy. Everything we do from now on has to be tied to the WTC bombing. Terrorists in the ME are laughing their arses off as we become a police state. I understand your perspective, being a cop, as you view this as a tool to help you do your job more efficiently, but for some of us, the idea of continually handing over authority and privacy to the central government piece by piece until there's nothing left is a slippery slope I don't want to step on any more. This a philosophical difference of opinion.

    There has to be a better way to interdict terrorists. This plan puts too much information on a single database, and that makes me nervous. It's just way too Soviet if you know what I mean. We try to limit our identity exposure for other reasons of personal security, and here the Feds want us to increase our exposure to ID theifs in the interest of "national security". Try improving our intelligence apparatus and electing leaders who will listen to the information they receive, even if it doesn't support a personal or political agenda. My agenda is about privacy and being left alone by the government as long as I don't hurt anyone.
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of a NAtional ID, but don't really support it either. As FTW mentioned, some states hand out ID's to illegals, or people who shouldn't have them. I think we can all pretty much agree that a US drivers license is a key to all things America. It is because of this that I'd be open to hearing some common sense measures aimed at restricting there availability to the non-deserving. The flip side is that I don't want some zig-heil system set up. I think, that if done sensiblely, we could find a way to implement some basic, mandated security standards that states must abide by, while allowing them to design, and issue their licenses with independence. What I always found funny, was the aguement against ID altogether. Who doesn't leave their house without their ID everyday?
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Lots of people, especially older, poor people, don't have ID's and don't have the money to locate their birth certificate & get a reprint, then find an identity-confirming document or bring someone with them to vouch, only then to pay a fee to get a state ID. Make state-issued ID's free, and then make ID's mandatory. I've no problem with it on principle (lots of European countries that I'd call free - like Belgium - require everyone to carry ID's), it's just not an easy thing for everyone right now.
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Lot's meaning what? 5, 10, 20 people? Or does lot's mean 30, 40, or 50% of the population? Furthermore, making them free is fine by me, but free once. Every 6 years you get your ID, if you loose it, you pay $100 for a replacement. How's that?
  7. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I don't know what percentage, but I'm guessing it's significant (at least 5% of the population by my guess).

    Yeah, I wouldn't want to give someone a free ID every month if they kept losing theirs, free-every-so-often sounds reasonable.
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Every 6 years when they expire. Anyone who looses it pays through the teeth for a new one.
  9. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Yeah, hopefully they can get "pays through the teeth" into the language of the statute. No, not pays through the teeth, just pays whatever the cost is to produce and mail a new ID. Sh!t happens, people lose their wallets, and it's OK to make them take responsibility for losing their ID by making them pay for a new one, but the fee shouldn't be punitive.
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I never can understand the psychotic desire to have no national ID card/number/whatever. We have drivers license numbers, SSN, etc, I'm fine with having a card that identifies who I am. Better yet, keep as much information there as possible. If I get stopped for speeding, let the cop send my number off and see my registration is paid, etc. Better yet, have my card identify me when I log onto my computer so I don't have to have 6 gazillion usernames/passwords for places all with different requirements.
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Watch the TV program COPS, nobody in Atlanta Ga or Jacksonville Fla carrys an ID, they all drive but they don't have drivers license's they dont even have wallets, they all carry "crack pipes" though :singing:
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  12. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    There's a brilliant idea. Give Patsfans.com access to your personal information so you don't have to memorize another password. And what if Patsfans doesn't want to use your national ID card to log you in, should they be forced to?
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, but what you're missing is that the current $30-40 fee will have to be replaced in some fashion. As we all know, government anythings don't ever cut expenditures, they only look to increase them. So that money will have to come from somewhere. By giving them away for free, you could recoup that lost "revenue" (I love when they call it revenue) by having replacements cost extra. See, the problem with freebie thought, is that people never want to trade tit for tat. If you want to give them away for free, then you have give in someplace else. If someone loses their wallet, it's their own fault. Sad, but true. All you can do is give them one every 6 years, and make them accountable in between.
  14. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    If the government, being the people, is going to mandate ID's, then they, meaning we, should pay for (at least the first copy) from general tax revenue. If that forces taxes to go up, so be it.
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    ID's are mandated right now, whether we like it or not.
  16. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Not in the sense that you can be stopped & arrested for not having an ID. ID's are required to take advantage of services, but they're not required to walk down the street.

    Think about mandated ID's without a system for enabling the poor to get them:
    1. You require ID's, which cost, say $40.
    2. Someone who doesn't have an extra $40 to spend immediately becomes a criminal for not having an ID.

    It costs the state more than $40 to put that person through the justice system... might as well spend that money getting them an ID in the first place.
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think anyone is advocating that an ID be carried to walk down the street. You need to carry your drivers license to operate a vehicle, yet, you can't be stopped because someone might suspect you don't have it on you. Furthermore, this crap about the poor not being able to afford an ID that costs $40 every 6 years is beyond comical. Reminds of the lady that was in court getting evicted by the Revere housing authority for not paying her portion of the rent, some $140 a month. She hadn't paid in over a year, and cried she had no money. Of course, she had a pack of smokes in her back pocket. No money for rent, but money for ciggerettes. I just returned my bottles and cans last Saturday and got $39.40 back. How many people even save their cans? I don't want to sound insensitive to the plight of the poor, but the excuses that go around to thwart policies, or accountability is really sad.
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Only a complete idiot would want the cops and the hackers to have access to everything known about you from a single database. Law and order...who the hell put those two words together? You all go right ahead and let the government have total access to everything in your life... no more privacy. Better yet, put a friggin transponder in your cornhole and mount a video camera inside your eyeballs so the cops can watch your every move. God help you if one of them has a personal problem with you or the feds decide you're carrying out "subversive" activities like protesting, smoking weed, or doing a Congressman's daughter.

    Have fun in your Brave New World, or is that New World Order.

    Anyone for an International ID?
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Psychotic?
    What could be more "psychotic" than allowing a totally corrupt government and it's army of cops to know where you are, what you do, and how you do it? Anyone who is OK with that has got to be a complete sucker for authoritarian style government we'll have in our lifetime if we allow thie crap to continue. Some of us still prefer to not use debit/credit cards, turnpike transponders, and fingerprints/chip implants for our kids.
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe Patters?

    I'm not for a National ID in the sense that you describe, as much as I am for a national set of guidelines states should follow in granting them, and with respect to their security. A drivers license in this country is a key to the cupboard.

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