Myron Pryor (and more broadly, the shape of the DL)

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

We'll see more 4-3 because we plan to be in many more passing situations. We plan to be ahead and also to do well defending first down.

BTW, an issue not discussed much in whether we are playing our 4-3 is usually a one-gap or a two-gap.

Finally, I don't think that Warren and Seymour are near as good as 4-3 linemen as they are as 3-4 linemen. Also, Wilfork is a better NT than a DT. I just don't get everyone saying we shoudl play the 4-3 because we finally have the personnel for it. The truth is that we have one of the very best 3-4 lines in the league. We do NOT have one of the best 4-3 lines. All of our #1's would be out of position.



And this is why we'll see a lot of 4-3 this year. We're so deep at the DL.

Warren is the only natural two gapper out of the bunch. Seymour and Wilfork have the exact same two gap responsiblities in a 4 man front, they are still not given a free rush. Not a thing changes about their responsibilities in a four man front according to Seymour. If Seymour was used more like Jason Taylor, Seymour would have a totally different set of stats than he does. Also Wilfork was great in Miami at penetrating up the middle. Wilfork in particular has had some growing pains at the NT position, which actually showed up in his second and third years.

In a 3 man front we absolutely need big and tough linebackers who can clash helmets with gaurds. The linebackers we have now are speed backers mostly. Mayo and Guyton have a lot of upside but taking on gaurds is not their biggest strength.

I believe this move was made to strengthen the groupings on the field and further I think that Wilfork and Seymour have been out of place in the two gap defense all along, but they do their job each week. Seymour would be an animal in any other system, and probably more effective when injuried as well because he would not need to stand up to the OL double team but just run at the QB.

 

[kas]

Warren is the only natural two gapper out of the bunch. Seymour and Wilfork have the exact same two gap responsiblities in a 4 man front, they are still not given a free rush. Not a thing changes about their responsibilities in a four man front according to Seymour. If Seymour was used more like Jason Taylor, Seymour would have a totally different set of stats than he does. Also Wilfork was great in Miami at penetrating up the middle. Wilfork in particular has had some growing pains at the NT position, which actually showed up in his second and third years.

In a 3 man front we absolutely need big and tough linebackers who can clash helmets with gaurds. The linebackers we have now are speed backers mostly. Mayo and Guyton have a lot of upside but taking on gaurds is not their biggest strength.

I believe this move was made to strengthen the groupings on the field and further I think that Wilfork and Seymour have been out of place in the two gap defense all along, but they do their job each week. Seymour would be an animal in any other system, and probably more effective when injuried as well because he would not need to stand up to the OL double team but just run at the QB.

I highly doubt we will abandon the 2gap principles. However, IMO the Pats will use more 1 gap than they have in the past when not blitzing. I expect a mix of both concepts on a lot of plays too. What should be so effective is the ability to mix and match fronts and give different looks by game, by play, and even within a play. Scouting the Pats D just became a hell of a lot tougher...and it couldn't have been easy to begin with.

 

[bbell31]

real impressive in pass rush against the eagles, but questionable during run defense...brace had a quiet but solid game imo, nice pushes at the line

 

[DaBruinz]

In a 4-3, Warren, Brace, Wilfork, Seymour would be in on run downs. It gets more interesting on passing downs where Pryor could have positioned himself as Brace's replacement and Burgess would likely replace Warren. Nothing against Warren but Seymour is the stronger pass rusher when healthy and Burgess plays the left side. Burgess, Pryor, Wilfork, Seymour should be a good pass rushing unit if Pryor ends up as a decent pass rusher.

During the 1st half of the game, I saw two distinctly different 4-3 lines:
Jumbo/Heavy: LK Smith/Wilfork/ Pryor or Brace/ Seymour
Pass Rushing: Burgess/Green/Seymour/TBC

The problem with the Jumbo is that there were a couple of times that their aggressiveness took them out of the play. One time Wilfork just BLEW right by the RG and right by the RB who was going up field through the hole that VW had just left..

Thank you to Ungeheuer for the mention that the Pats did play both 1GAP and 2GAP assignments in the 4-3... I found it hard to tell many times when the Pats would have a man double teams (mostly Pryor) and he was moved into the B gap, opening up the Left A gap nice and wide.. ...

 

[DaBruinz]

Nice post but I think it's slightly more complicated than a Warren -> Burgess switch. It's more of a Woods -> Burgess and Warren -> Pryor switch, putting 3-point pass rushing specialists on the weakside of the 4-3 and having your 2 run-stuffing DTs (Wilfork, Seymour, Warren) on the strongside.

With the Pats playing the 4-3 last night, anytime Woods was on the field last night, he was at OLB, not DE. Burgess was in exclusively at DE last night.

Also, the Pats did not switch up the sides based on Weak/Strong last night. I haven't reviewed the 2nd half again, but in the first half, there were two distinct units as I mentioned in another post.
Jumbo/Heavy :
LDE: LK Smith
LDT: Wilfork
RDT: Brace or Pryor
RDE: Seymour

Pass Rushing:
LDE: Burgess
LDT: Jarvis Green
RDT: Seymour
RDE: TBC

Woods was not in the DE roation during the 1st half. He was at ROLB when he was on the field.

 

[eagle eye]

I was very impressed by Pryor's power, they guy is seriously strong. He still has a lot to learn though, but I see him being a starter next season or the season after when he gets to know his job.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Agreed although I disagree with your cause and effect. I think we're deep at DL because we're going to see a lot of 4-3. We wondered why the heck we drafted 3 DT on draft day when we already had Wilfork and workable, though not great, backups.

I have a theory about what may have happened. I think they heavily scouted DTs at the Wilfork situation was getting closer. They ended up seeing several DTs that they really liked.

Suddenly, they keep seeing themselves with a relatively high rated DT, and rather than reach for a lower rated player at another postition, they busted the moves on the DTs. All they have to do is hit on one, and if they hit on two or three that's a bonus.

Maybe none of what I speculate on is true, but it's my theory.

 

[bigfandan]

He has talent at pass rush. It remains to be seen if he can stuff the run well enough.

If he does both equally well, would he would be more like Justin Tuck or K. Williams? Either way, hope he keep on learning, improving and making big plays. This kid got real potential. Another 6th that could work out real well. I know that I am getting way ahead at this time... much too early to draw comparison to the 6th that landed TB.

 

[jmt57]

No Pryor complaints; Patriots rookie makes big impression

No Pryor complaints; Patriots rookie makes big impression by Ian Rapoport of the Boston Herald

He only began practicing a few days before the game and was admittedly winded several times. Improving his fitness level is a must to play like he can.

“The coaches said that for a guy like me to have a good motor like that, you have to be in real good shape,” Pryor said. “That’s one of my main goals.”

His major highlight Thursday came in the second quarter.

Lining up alongside Pro Bowler Vince Wilfork in the 4-3 look, Pryor shrugged off guard Nick Cole, chased McNabb as he stepped up in the pocket, and appeared to fall down after a hit from the side.

Yet Pryor kept his feet moving and took McNabb down.

 

[DaBruinz]

What I find interesting about Pryor was that, through the entire first half, he was doubled up on almost every running play. I found this surprising since it was his first game.

 

[Water Boy]

Also, Wilfork is a better NT than a DT.

Wilfork was a pretty damn good DT at Miami. He's not just a fat load who sits over the center. I think he could be every bit as good a DT as an NT.

I just don't get everyone saying we shoudl play the 4-3 because we finally have the personnel for it. The truth is that we have one of the very best 3-4 lines in the league. We do NOT have one of the best 4-3 lines.

I think we have the personnel to have a dominant 4-3 line. For example a 4 man front consisting of Wilfork and Seymour as DTs and Burgess and Thomas as DEs would be pretty damn good.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I think we have the personnel to have a dominant 4-3 line. For example a 4 man front consisting of Wilfork and Seymour as DTs and Burgess and Thomas as DEs would be pretty damn good.

In HS, Wilfork apparently played QB at some point.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

We'll see more 4-3 because we plan to be in many more passing situations. We plan to be ahead and also to do well defending first down.

BTW, an issue not discussed much in whether we are playing our 4-3 is usually a one-gap or a two-gap.

Finally, I don't think that Warren and Seymour are near as good as 4-3 linemen as they are as 3-4 linemen. Also, Wilfork is a better NT than a DT. I just don't get everyone saying we shoudl play the 4-3 because we finally have the personnel for it. The truth is that we have one of the very best 3-4 lines in the league. We do NOT have one of the best 4-3 lines. All of our #1's would be out of position.



And this is why we'll see a lot of 4-3 this year. We're so deep at the DL.

This Thread has had some of the best/pertinent info I've read in a while on this board. To bad it can't be re-named to attract others to read it-so they can understand what's happening. Great posts!

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Does anyone have any feedback on Darryl Richard? Obviously making the roster is the longest of long shots, but how about the practice squad? He was always one of my favorite players at GT because of his off the field accomplishments.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Does anyone have any feedback on Darryl Richard? Obviously making the roster is the longest of long shots, but how about the practice squad? He was always one of my favorite players at GT because of his off the field accomplishments.

He didn't appear to get a lot of reps the other night, but he was prominent in stuffing a 3rd and 1 run near the end of the game. So far it looks like he's a candidate for the Practice Squad, positive strokes from folks covering the camp practices - check back for more next week.

 

[makoute]

Wilfork was a pretty damn good DT at Miami. He's not just a fat load who sits over the center. I think he could be every bit as good a DT as an NT.



I think we have the personnel to have a dominant 4-3 line. For example a 4 man front consisting of Wilfork and Seymour as DTs and Burgess and Thomas as DEs would be pretty damn good.

That would be ideal, it would be a sick combo of DT's.

 

[alvinnf]

There were two series in a row first half, where they used two DL, nose and end. No two gapping, just hitting the shoulder gaps of the OL. He was unblockable. He dismantled the protection. This guy has serious potential. IMO he's going to be more valuable than Brace this year.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I have a theory about what may have happened. I think they heavily scouted DTs at the Wilfork situation was getting closer. They ended up seeing several DTs that they really liked.

Suddenly, they keep seeing themselves with a relatively high rated DT, and rather than reach for a lower rated player at another postition, they busted the moves on the DTs. All they have to do is hit on one, and if they hit on two or three that's a bonus.

Maybe none of what I speculate on is true, but it's my theory.

This is the same theory that I have. In the past they have always seemed to draft the best player in the later rounds. It seems that this year they just may have hit on a couple of them.

 

[Reckedtrek]

In HS, Wilfork apparently played QB at some point.

This just gets better and better. Between Vince and Edelman, we don't need any "QB only" backups behind Brady... I like it!

 

[fester]

Wilfork was a pretty damn good DT at Miami. He's not just a fat load who sits over the center. I think he could be every bit as good a DT as an NT.



I think we have the personnel to have a dominant 4-3 line. For example a 4 man front consisting of Wilfork and Seymour as DTs and Burgess and Thomas as DEs would be pretty damn good.

Why not get a little more creative and go with a power-line that looks something like this from the defensive left to right for 1st and 10 packages

Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Burgess
TBC/Woods/Crable MAYO A. Thomas
(maybe to put the left side of the line onto overload, flip Warren and Seymour every now and then)

And for a Nickel Package switch to the following
Green Seymour Warren Burgess
Mayo/Guyton A Thomas

The 1st and 10 standard 4-3 package is a bit bigger than most 4-3 packages, but if Wilfork and Warren 2-gap the interior of the line that allows Seymour to either go 1:1 against a TE or the right tackle gaps and creates a traditional edge rusher for the LOT to handle, plus if the Pats blitz, Mayo and Thomas need to be accounted for in the protection. Against the run, Seymour is easily the best run defender the Pats have, so with him and Wilfork creating a mess on the offensive right side, it provides some protection against the weakest Pats position (ROLB) while letting Mayo flow to the play.

The Nickel package may not produce a massive number of exterior pressure sacks, but the interior pressure will be nasty with both Seymour and Warren able to force the middle of the pocket to collapse.