My2Cents Finalized Two Round Mock Draft

[My2Cents]

"they are all about the Senior Bowl and the Combine."

I don't know much, but I know that the bolded above is so very, very wrong.

WRONG!

For brevity's sake, I won't review the entire Pats draft history,
but it's very common for the Pats to take a leader in one of the Combine workouts (no matter how ridiculous that may appear to us) or a Senior Bowl/Senior Bowl week standout. Here are just a few:

One of the most notable examples of where you are wrong is the highly athletic but unproductive TE Ben Watson. Said ESPN's Mel Kiper: "The Senior Bowl practices and the combine workout made Ben Watson a lot of money."
The 6-foot-3, 255-pound Watson was the second tight end taken after Winslow despite a senior season in which he had 23 catches for 324 yards and was slowed by an ankle injury. Florida's Ben Troupe went 41st to Denver."


2003- "[Ty Warren] ANALYSIS: Can be a dominant force when focused and displayed that skill during Senior Bowl practice as well as throughout his college career." [SI].

"My vertical jump was first, and I jumped 38 inches. I followed that with a 10-foot-2-inch standing broad jump. Next, I ran my 40. I was clocked in the 4.4 range. I ran hard, but I know that I can run faster. After my 40, I finished my workout with some ball-catching drills and the shuttle run. I felt really confident about my performance in both. I didn’t drop any balls and clocked a 4.0 flat in the 20-yard shuttle. I am looking forward to improve all my times in my workout at school on March 12." [Eugene Wilson, draft journal].

"[Bethel Johnson] Displayed flashes at the Scouting Combine and showed rare innate abilities, but that is keeping in par with his college career." [SI].

2002- "Dan Graham was the best tight end in the nation before he arrived in Mobile and made yet another statement during the week with his skills. A consummate professional, Graham went to every practice with total focus and determination. Several teams, including the Buccaneers and Bears, showed a lot of interest in the Graham, a Colorado product." [SI].

"[Deion Branch:] Deion had the fastest 10 yard dash of any athlete at the 2002 NFL Combine." [Parisi Speed School].

2001- Matt Light has quick feet. [Kiper's Climbers].

"[Kenyatta] Jones clocked in at 4.8 seconds, the best of any of the tackle prospects at the RCA Dome last weekend, a field that included a far better-known Kenyatta (as in Walker, from the University of Florida). Though unable to make his second run, Jones _ a former star at Gainesville's Eastside High _ clearly placed himself among a list of prospects whose stock netted points during three days of heavily scrutinized workouts." [The Orlando Sentinel].

Note that Jones also posted one of the best bench presses, with 31. While 3rd pick, CB Brock Williams, was listed among Kiper's Climbers after a 4.38 40-yard dash tied for best among DB's at the Combine. Need I go on???

 

[rsd]

"they are all about the Senior Bowl and the Combine."


WRONG!

For brevity's sake, I won't review the entire Pats draft history,
but it's very common for the Pats to take a leader in one of the Combine workouts (no matter how ridiculous that may appear to us) or a Senior Bowl/Senior Bowl week standout. Here are just a few:

One of the most notable examples of where you are wrong is the highly athletic but unproductive TE Ben Watson. Said ESPN's Mel Kiper: "The Senior Bowl practices and the combine workout made Ben Watson a lot of money."
The 6-foot-3, 255-pound Watson was the second tight end taken after Winslow despite a senior season in which he had 23 catches for 324 yards and was slowed by an ankle injury. Florida's Ben Troupe went 41st to Denver."


2003- "[Ty Warren] ANALYSIS: Can be a dominant force when focused and displayed that skill during Senior Bowl practice as well as throughout his college career." [SI].

"My vertical jump was first, and I jumped 38 inches. I followed that with a 10-foot-2-inch standing broad jump. Next, I ran my 40. I was clocked in the 4.4 range. I ran hard, but I know that I can run faster. After my 40, I finished my workout with some ball-catching drills and the shuttle run. I felt really confident about my performance in both. I didn’t drop any balls and clocked a 4.0 flat in the 20-yard shuttle. I am looking forward to improve all my times in my workout at school on March 12." [Eugene Wilson, draft journal].

"[Bethel Johnson] Displayed flashes at the Scouting Combine and showed rare innate abilities, but that is keeping in par with his college career." [SI].

2002- "Dan Graham was the best tight end in the nation before he arrived in Mobile and made yet another statement during the week with his skills. A consummate professional, Graham went to every practice with total focus and determination. Several teams, including the Buccaneers and Bears, showed a lot of interest in the Graham, a Colorado product." [SI].

"[Deion Branch:] Deion had the fastest 10 yard dash of any athlete at the 2002 NFL Combine." [Parisi Speed School].

2001- Matt Light has quick feet. [Kiper's Climbers].

"[Kenyatta] Jones clocked in at 4.8 seconds, the best of any of the tackle prospects at the RCA Dome last weekend, a field that included a far better-known Kenyatta (as in Walker, from the University of Florida). Though unable to make his second run, Jones _ a former star at Gainesville's Eastside High _ clearly placed himself among a list of prospects whose stock netted points during three days of heavily scrutinized workouts." [The Orlando Sentinel].

Note that Jones also posted one of the best bench presses, with 31. While 3rd pick, CB Brock Williams, was listed among Kiper's Climbers after a 4.38 40-yard dash tied for best among DB's at the Combine. Need I go on???

You don't notice that for almost every one of those guys (other than maybe Watson) it also said they had great college careers???? Other than Watson, remind me of any guys recently they drafted that did nothing in college but were workout wonders that they drafted. :bricks:

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No. You're wrong. Yes, there is an overall salary cap for each team. But there is also what is known as "the rookie pool," which is basically a cap within a cap. Each team is allowed a figure, varying from team to team,
for rookie (and UFA) allocation. Those moneys are already set aside. What forced Samuel out was the Pats decision to re-sign Moss. They simply didn't have money for both. Rookies are a non-factor.

No, the money is not already set aside. The rookie allocation can't even be made until the draft is over.

Also, one of the advantages of UDFAs is that their base salaries do not count against the rookie cap (but their bonuses, and any other bumps in salary over the minimum, do).

 

[My2Cents]

No, the money is not already set aside. The rookie allocation can't even be made until the draft is over.

Also, one of the advantages of UDFAs is that their base salaries do not count against the rookie cap (but their bonuses, and any other bumps in salary over the minimum, do).

Now you're just being ridiculous. That's exactly the point I made.
I've stated very clearly and I have made it painfully obvious that the NFL determines how much their "rookie pool" will be after the draft.

That rookie pool money is "allocated," set aside, earmarked, for the purpose of signing rookies and undrafted FA's. Whether it's used for that or not, it doesn't help whatsoever with veteran contracts that same year. If it benefits veterans at all, it can only increase the following year's cap space.

Therefore, rookie money could not have been given to Samuel. Case closed.

 

[My2Cents]

You don't notice that for almost every one of those guys (other than maybe Watson) it also said they had great college careers???? Other than Watson, remind me of any guys recently they drafted that did nothing in college but were workout wonders that they drafted. :bricks:

What is the point? If I offer a legitimate example, you just say that it's not enough, or not recent enough, or he's not just a workout warrior but he had a solid career, too. I can't win.

But note, I never said DRC or any other previous Patriots pick was a workout warrior or Senior Bowl star alone. You are injecting the "alone" part just to make your argument. The actual argument was whether or not the Patriots place high value on the 2 events: Combine and Senior Bowl. It is obvious, they do! As Matt Light says, they wouldn't have it (or be there) if it didn't matter.

Also, DRC was in fact "dominating," in college according to NFL.com and others. But that's still not enough for you. You refuse him respect due.
Listen, maybe the Pats take Jenkins or McKelvin or somebody else. Who knows. But that doesn't change the fact that they drool over athleticism.

 

[primetime]

Also, DRC was in fact "dominating," in college according to NFL.com and others. But that's still not enough for you. You refuse him respect due.

Here's an example of what "others" have said. Courtesy of the Sporting News:

Weaknesses: Is a better athlete than football player; did not play nearly as well in college as he did at the Senior Bowl. At Tennessee State, allowed inferior receivers to separate and catch passes. In college, got upright in backpedal, hindering ability to transition. Lacks natural instincts, and often reacts late to receivers' routes. Shows sloppy and raw technique, raising questions of how well he learns from coaching. Does not play with intensity; does not come upfield quickly in run support, content to allow teammates to make tackles.

Bottom line: Rodgers-Cromartie is a premier athlete who improved his draft stock tremendously at the Senior Bowl. In our experience, most players who knock people's socks off in the spring after failing to impress on film struggle to improve in the NFL. Rodgers-Cromartie must prove his stellar week in Mobile isn't an aberration. He still looks and plays more like the track star he also is -- he won the 60 meter dash at the 2007 Ohio Valley Conference indoor championship. Don't be surprised if an NFL team drafts Rodgers-Cromartie as high as Round 1; we don't recommend it, though, because he is a long way from being a polished NFL cornerback. We wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers-Cromartie followed the path of Andre Woolfolk, a 2003 first-round pick who already is out of the league.

 

[Deus Irae]

Here's an example of what "others" have said. Courtesy of the Sporting News:

Weaknesses: Is a better athlete than football player; did not play nearly as well in college as he did at the Senior Bowl. At Tennessee State, allowed inferior receivers to separate and catch passes. In college, got upright in backpedal, hindering ability to transition. Lacks natural instincts, and often reacts late to receivers' routes. Shows sloppy and raw technique, raising questions of how well he learns from coaching. Does not play with intensity; does not come upfield quickly in run support, content to allow teammates to make tackles.

Bottom line: Rodgers-Cromartie is a premier athlete who improved his draft stock tremendously at the Senior Bowl. In our experience, most players who knock people's socks off in the spring after failing to impress on film struggle to improve in the NFL. Rodgers-Cromartie must prove his stellar week in Mobile isn't an aberration. He still looks and plays more like the track star he also is -- he won the 60 meter dash at the 2007 Ohio Valley Conference indoor championship. Don't be surprised if an NFL team drafts Rodgers-Cromartie as high as Round 1; we don't recommend it, though, because he is a long way from being a polished NFL cornerback. We wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers-Cromartie followed the path of Andre Woolfolk, a 2003 first-round pick who already is out of the league.

But..... But..... But..... NFL.com says....

 

[My2Cents]

Here's an example of what "others" have said. Courtesy of the Sporting News:

Weaknesses: Is a better athlete than football player; did not play nearly as well in college as he did at the Senior Bowl. At Tennessee State, allowed inferior receivers to separate and catch passes. In college, got upright in backpedal, hindering ability to transition. Lacks natural instincts, and often reacts late to receivers' routes. Shows sloppy and raw technique, raising questions of how well he learns from coaching. Does not play with intensity; does not come upfield quickly in run support, content to allow teammates to make tackles.

Bottom line: Rodgers-Cromartie is a premier athlete who improved his draft stock tremendously at the Senior Bowl. In our experience, most players who knock people's socks off in the spring after failing to impress on film struggle to improve in the NFL. Rodgers-Cromartie must prove his stellar week in Mobile isn't an aberration. He still looks and plays more like the track star he also is -- he won the 60 meter dash at the 2007 Ohio Valley Conference indoor championship. Don't be surprised if an NFL team drafts Rodgers-Cromartie as high as Round 1; we don't recommend it, though, because he is a long way from being a polished NFL cornerback. We wouldn't be surprised if Rodgers-Cromartie followed the path of Andre Woolfolk, a 2003 first-round pick who already is out of the league.

If we're going to use TSN as our standard now, they also said that the Chargers drafting Antonio Cromartie was a big "roll of the dice."
Their feeling was that despite his skills, there wasn't enough experience.
He was an injury risk and was a raw athlete with not enough game film.

Dan Pompei listed Cromartie as a distant #3 on his big board, behind Jonathan Joseph and Jimmy Williams. Ashtoun Youboty and Tye Hill also
got a lot of top 5 play from him. They gave Cromartie a first round grade
but more due to default ("need") than talent, citing "supply and demand." This is an excellent article on CB's written by him.

In hindsight, his rankings look ridiculous. The running joke on Cromartie -
a questionable 1st rounder - being taken as high as #19, was "he could be Deion Sanders ....or Col. Sanders." Needless to say, the gamble paid off.
Give me a Cromartie over a Jonathan Joseph or a Jimmy Williams any day!

 

[rsd]

If we're going to use TSN as our standard now, they also said that the Chargers drafting Antonio Cromartie was a big "roll of the dice."
Their feeling was that despite his skills, there wasn't enough experience.
He was an injury risk and was a raw athlete with not enough game film.

Dan Pompei listed Cromartie as a distant #3 on his big board, behind Jonathan Joseph and Jimmy Williams. Ashtoun Youboty and Tye Hill also
got a lot of top 5 play from him. They gave Cromartie a first round grade
but more due to default ("need") than talent, citing "supply and demand." This is an excellent article on CB's written by him.

In hindsight, his rankings look ridiculous. The running joke on Cromartie -
a questionable 1st rounder - being taken as high as #19, was "he could be Deion Sanders ....or Col. Sanders." Needless to say, the gamble paid off.
Give me a Cromartie over a Jonathan Joseph or a Jimmy Williams any day!

Let's not quite put Antonio in the Hall of Fame yet after one year . But he sure looks like he'll be a star from what he showed. That said, yeah let's not go overboard with bashing their draft ranking (though I will be the first to admit its a crapshoot). Their concerns/doubts about cromartie were legitimate at the time. I mean, not everyone can be so accurate with their mocks.

EDIT:
I know its a cheap shot, but I couldn't help myself nothing personal

 

[My2Cents]

Lol. It's cool. I deserve it. But, just for the record, I did have the Pats taking Merriweather. I even spoke with a few local sports writers about him as a probable replacement for Harrison. They all scoffed at me. My first mock was just a fun attempt at stirring up the message boards with lively conversation. Had I to do it all over again, I would have taken it more seriously. So, I did.

 

[Dago]

gholston n. 9???

 

[tjones7]

Didn't Howard run a 4.4 40 yard dash?
If so that is incredible but I dont think he is worth a 2nd

 

[My2Cents]

gholston n. 9???

Gosselin, for one, has him at 8. And he's thought to be genius! But me, I'm just a big dunce for noting how every expert tags him as "overrated," and "inconsistent," and then agreeing. What could I do but drop him to #9?
Even if it was way ahead of what everybody else was saying. Forgive me.

 

[primetime]

If we're going to use TSN as our standard now, they also said that the Chargers drafting Antonio Cromartie was a big "roll of the dice."

It was. Cromartie had serious injury problems and was a boom-or-bust pick. In the end, the roll of the dice hit 11, or so it looks thus far. But TSN wasn't wrong in that assessment at the time.

 

[JoeSixPat]

No. You're wrong. Yes, there is an overall salary cap for each team. But there is also what is known as "the rookie pool," which is basically a cap within a cap. Each team is allowed a figure, varying from team to team,
for rookie (and UFA) allocation. Those moneys are already set aside. What forced Samuel out was the Pats decision to re-sign Moss. They simply didn't have money for both. Rookies are a non-factor.

That statement isn't right is it?

There's a rookie cap - but it is WITHIN THE CAP. It doesn't raise the overall cap.

Miami doesn't get extra cap space because they're drafting #1 - they simply are "allowed" to allocate more of their capspace to their rookies because they have to sign the #1 pick.

Do I not have this right? Or does the NFL really give Miami more money to spend than other teams, and give them a higher cap level as well.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, hellooooooo---Mike and Ray. Say hello to the future: DRC.

DRC = Future candidate as greatest bust over Ryan Leaf.

 

[DaBruinz]

I have to say, DRC has dominated at every level. Usually, that's an indicator that the prospect will continue to do so, as evidenced by his Combine and Senior Bowl performances. He can play either FS or CB. How is that a project?

As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, DRC did NOT dominate at his level of college. Not in comparison to guys like Cason who were playing against D1 opponents regularly.

Likewise, Howard is a late-bloomer having played behind two stud UGA DE's.
But he already has played OLB with high success. He finished the year with 10.5 sacks, and killed it at the Combine. His numbers are as good as any.
Again, how is that a project?

"Stones," yes! I have them coming out my ears! "Stonings"? Yes! I live for them! :bricks:

Howard hasn't played 3-4 OLB. So for you to think that his "success" as a 4-3 OLB means he'll have success as a 3-4 OLB means that you don't understand a dman thing. Also, if Howard was as great as you claim, then he'd be rated higher than a 3rd round pick. Also, Howard is a one trick pony. He's a pure pass-rusher and lousy in coverage. Not to mention that he's only average against the run.

Oh, and finally, Howard is underszied for a Pats OLB at 6'1 and 237 lbs. Vrabel, Colvin and Thomas were all over 250.

 

[DaBruinz]

And the more I think about it, the more I disagree with you. What rookies come in and perform for the Pats from day one??? Almost none!

You don't do your homework, do you?

Richard Seymour, Matt Light, Logan Mankins, and Eugene Wilson. And that is just off the top of my head.

 

[Deus Irae]

And the more I think about it, the more I disagree with you. What rookies come in and perform for the Pats from day one??? Almost none!

You don't do your homework, do you?

Richard Seymour, Matt Light, Logan Mankins, and Eugene Wilson. And that is just off the top of my head.

Just a few other current players who either fit the "day one" description, or come close:

Nick Kaczur played had 11 starts and played 14 games in his rookie season. Koppen started 15 of 16 games as a rookie. Watson was expected to be a player from the start, but he got injured.