My Thoughts on Monty Beisel: He is Still Horrible

[mcsully]

Hmm.. Funny thing about ESPN.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=2656

Same website and they say he played in 15 games. I've found that ESPN isn't always accurate and they make assumptions



No, actually it doesn't. If it did, you wouldn't have players like DeMarcus Ware and Lofa Tatupu being the impact players that they are. Jamie Sharper would have started the whole year there.

Players have different skill sets. Comparing Mincey, who was a 4-3 DE and spent a LOT of time working on the edge of plays and getting by blockers would have more preparation and experience than Beisel working on the inside. I would think that would be rather obvious.



I don't care WHAT you are basing it on. Your bias is obvious and your understanding of how hard it is to change position from 4-3 DE to 3-4 ILB seems to be missing facts.

As for the national media, who gives a flying **** what they think? Most of them are boobs who can't think beyond their local teams. Its stupid to be attempting to judge someone based on ONE PRE-SEASON game where they are running a vanilla defense and the guy is coming back from an injury.

And, since when did Tom Casale become "The National media"? He is a local journalist who works for the team. And he's wrong as often as he is right.

You are reading what I am saying.. PLease do that.. I said I'm basing it on plenty of stats from last year and this year.. 2 years.. NOT 1 preseason game.. And the conflicting stats still show that his tackles and playing went down (oh though I'm not sure the stats I presented are incorrect) as the year went on..

"I don't care WHAT you are basing it on" Well I am not one to say I have a trained eye.. But what I do offer is a point of view, with stats to back up my belief. My professional background does play a role on how to read people (defense attorney) and I have to say that the actions of the coach (not starting him on defense) and what other news media is saying.. The conclusion is that Beisel is not the player we hoped for..

National medai??? Please again read my post, 790 had someone from Profootballweekly which is national. ANd I love reading those guys because they aren't homers

 

[mcsully]

I feel strong about my opinion and want to show people I'm not here just to rant or take another position..

Here is my stance, BEISEL will have little or not impact on this team. I am willing to wager on it. If I'm wrong, I put up an avatar saying I was wrong or what ever people want.. But If I'm right, will you change your avatar to something that shows you were wrong?

 

[arrellbee]

Yep, we do, I don't consider Wilfork, Warren, and Seymour blockers for Colvin, Vrabel, Beisel, and Bruschi.

BB wants his players to play a role in an orchestrated defense, each man has a role. If you choose to simplify the ILB role to be putting a body in a hole, you and I will interpret a player's performance differently.

OK, educate me. If there is some other role for an ILB other than tackling the runner coming through a hole on his side when the play has developed into a run into the line, what is it and it's purpose ? I am really puzzled.

 

[arrellbee]

Info: for the 2005 regular season, Beisel:
Inactive for week 11
Was active and didn't show up in 'Did Not Play' but had no regular tackles or special team tackles listed in the NFL gamebook: weeks 13, 14, and 15.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

OK, educate me. If there is some other role for an ILB other than tackling the runner coming through a hole on his side when the play has developed into a run into the line, what is it and it's purpose ? I am really puzzled.

Your question presupposes that all the LB needs to do is rush up to the first opening in the line and wait for the RB to appear. We've discussed some of what a LB needs to do to make a play in previous posts...
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=153717&postcount=92
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=153972&postcount=98
...we will just have to agree to disagree, BB and Dean Pees will sort it out for us in September. Later pardner.

:rocker:

 

[DaBruinz]

No, just an added pointed to the comment..

Vermeil won because of offense, not defense..

Actually, you didn't add anything to the comment. You are also wrong with your saying that Vermeil won because of offense. The Rams defense was 4th in Points and 7th in yards in 1999. Yes, their offense was great, but their defense was amongst the best as well. Just like it was in 2001 when the Pats beat them.

 

[DaBruinz]

You are reading what I am saying.. PLease do that.. I said I'm basing it on plenty of stats from last year and this year.. 2 years.. NOT 1 preseason game.. And the conflicting stats still show that his tackles and playing went down (oh though I'm not sure the stats I presented are incorrect) as the year went on..

"I don't care WHAT you are basing it on" Well I am not one to say I have a trained eye.. But what I do offer is a point of view, with stats to back up my belief. My professional background does play a role on how to read people (defense attorney) and I have to say that the actions of the coach (not starting him on defense) and what other news media is saying.. The conclusion is that Beisel is not the player we hoped for..

Well, I hope you stick with that for a long time because your ability to transfer your skills from one profession to another doesn't help you in this case. You are making illogical assumptions that aren't backed up by fact. You gloss over the things that blow up your case (like any good defense attorney should).

To make your conclusion, NOW, after 1 year of playing in a new system when it took a MUCH BETTER PLAYER more than 2 years at the position and several years in the system to be efficient at the position shows how fouled up your logic is. It took Bruschi over 2 years at ILB and more than 4 years in the BB system to get to where he is today. Yet you expect Beisel to be where Bruschi was in 2003. It unrealistic expectations on your part.

National medai??? Please again read my post, 790 had someone from Profootballweekly which is national. ANd I love reading those guys because they aren't homers

I read your post. You obviously didn't read what I said. And, like I said, the NATIONAL media are a bunch of know-nothings. They are the same ones who conduct the popularity voting known as the Pro-Bowl. Sorry that I don't put much value on their opinions. I value a coach like Belichick.

 

[mcsully]

Actually, you didn't add anything to the comment. You are also wrong with your saying that Vermeil won because of offense. The Rams defense was 4th in Points and 7th in yards in 1999. Yes, their offense was great, but their defense was amongst the best as well. Just like it was in 2001 when the Pats beat them.

heheh.. I love the 4th in points and 7th in yards.. But in comparison what was their defense ranked?? THeir OFFENSE carried that team.. Great way to steer the debate to a different angle.. heheheh.. I love when people try that

 

[mcsully]

Well, I hope you stick with that for a long time because your ability to transfer your skills from one profession to another doesn't help you in this case. You are making illogical assumptions that aren't backed up by fact. You gloss over the things that blow up your case (like any good defense attorney should).

To make your conclusion, NOW, after 1 year of playing in a new system when it took a MUCH BETTER PLAYER more than 2 years at the position and several years in the system to be efficient at the position shows how fouled up your logic is. It took Bruschi over 2 years at ILB and more than 4 years in the BB system to get to where he is today. Yet you expect Beisel to be where Bruschi was in 2003. It unrealistic expectations on your part.



I read your post. You obviously didn't read what I said. And, like I said, the NATIONAL media are a bunch of know-nothings. They are the same ones who conduct the popularity voting known as the Pro-Bowl. Sorry that I don't put much value on their opinions. I value a coach like Belichick.

I don't know why you need to make it personal. The points I made are backed up by fact and observation.. The conclusion is an educated guess by using hte facts. I'm not using a slanted view on the topic. I look at his tackles, and his playing time. Both have gone down. After the 1st preseason game and noticing he didn't start, I would tend to belive he stinks.. And BB thinks that to..

Now if you want to break down this anymore.. Why don't you take me up on my OFFER.. If you think he is HOT then make the bet with me.. If not, then don't bash my opinion..

FYI, U really didn't read what I said about the National Media.. You can't say they are all know-nothings.. That is like saying BOrges is GOD.. That is your view.. I tend to take all facts, unlike u, and put them together to have an opinion..

Peace out.. and please read before you resond.. Stinks how i Have to repeat myself..

 

[maverick4]

It seems that with recent speculation (Junior Seau, Jamie Sharper), it's safe to say that Belichick doesn't feel good about Beisel either.

.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't know why you need to make it personal. The points I made are backed up by fact and observation.. The conclusion is an educated guess by using hte facts. I'm not using a slanted view on the topic. I look at his tackles, and his playing time. Both have gone down. After the 1st preseason game and noticing he didn't start, I would tend to belive he stinks.. And BB thinks that to..

Sorry, but its NOT backed by facts. And your observations are bias and slanted so amazingly that you can't even admit it.

Yes, Beisel's playing time and tackles went down. That's because he was no longer starting because Bruschi returned. You claim you look at fact, yet you ignore reality.

You're claim that him not starting because of 1 pre-season game is so dumb its amazing. Did you stop to think that MAYBE, just MAYBE, BB was using that time to evaluate the players that were NEW to the team? Beisel, not being new, would have only needed some playing time, and not necessarily on the starting unit.

Your claim that BB thinks like you is UTTER BS on your part and not backed up by ANYTHING you have said.

Now if you want to break down this anymore.. Why don't you take me up on my OFFER.. If you think he is HOT then make the bet with me.. If not, then don't bash my opinion..

Because, I don't true you as far as I could throw Jonathan Sullivan. You're a friggin lawyer. Nuff Said. BTW. I will bash your opinion if you chose to post it. Don't like it, you don't have to post it.

FYI, U really didn't read what I said about the National Media.. You can't say they are all know-nothings.. That is like saying BOrges is GOD.. That is your view.. I tend to take all facts, unlike u, and put them together to have an opinion..

Peace out.. and please read before you resond.. Stinks how i Have to repeat myself..

Repeat your unsubstantiated opinion all you want. It won't change reality.

 

[DaBruinz]

It seems that with recent speculation (Junior Seau, Jamie Sharper), it's safe to say that Belichick doesn't feel good about Beisel either.

.

The only think that I've heard about Seau is that he is retiring.

As for Sharper, Claiborne, and Ruff, did you stop to think that maybe its Barry Gardner that BB wants to replace? Or maybe Eric Alexander or Don Davis?

BB knows that Beisel is younger than Izzo or Davis and that Beisel can play special teams. Gardner hasn't shown he can handle the defense yet (though its early).

Its amazing how people talk about depth and then automatically think its Beisel that is the problem and not someone else.

 

[maverick4]

The only think that I've heard about Seau is that he is retiring.

As for Sharper, Claiborne, and Ruff, did you stop to think that maybe its Barry Gardner that BB wants to replace? Or maybe Eric Alexander or Don Davis?

BB knows that Beisel is younger than Izzo or Davis and that Beisel can play special teams. Gardner hasn't shown he can handle the defense yet (though its early).

Its amazing how people talk about depth and then automatically think its Beisel that is the problem and not someone else.

DaBruinz, no offense, but your ability to try to explain things one way regardless of objectivity is astounding. It's pretty much common knowledge that Beisel was expected to be the 4th starting linebacker, or at least most of the local newspapers wrote it up that way. As fans we are just going by what we read or see, and with recent developments, it makes sense that we are looking to supplant BEISEL, not Alexander, Davis, or any other ILB for the last starting position.

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz, no offense, but your ability to try to explain things one way regardless of objectivity is astounding. It's pretty much common knowledge that Beisel was expected to be the 4th starting linebacker, or at least most of the local newspapers wrote it up that way. As fans we are just going by what we read or see, and with recent developments, it makes sense that we are looking to supplant BEISEL, not Alexander, Davis, or any other ILB for the last starting position.

Maverick -
What is astounding is how we FANS make all sorts of assumptions on who is supposed to be doing what based on the media even though we KNOW that the media almost NEVER gets the correct story from Belichick. If you could please show me anywhere at all that BB said that Beisel was supposed to be the one starting opposite Bruschi, I will admit that I stand corrected and drop it.

Now, about the local media. They are also the ones who had the Pats taking Carpenter in the draft and supposedly loving Liver Hoyte. The only one they kind of got correct was Jeremy Mincey.

Now, what people seem to be overlooking is that Beisel was supposedly the starting ILB only by default. People also seem to be overlooking that Beisel has been hurt in camp and that BB has a standing policy about players not starting if they don't prectice. Its happened to Seymour and Faulk and I'm sure others that we fans have missed.

So, why is it that Beisel would be the one dumped whether or not Seau or someone else was signed? He's got a year in the system and can also play special teams. He's been lined up next to Bruschi or Vrabel and had some success. As a player who can play special teams and also start in a pinch, it makes much more sense that the Patriots would keep him over a Barry Gardner or Don Davis. Or even Larry Izzo.

 

[maverick4]

So, why is it that Beisel would be the one dumped whether or not Seau or someone else was signed? He's got a year in the system and can also play special teams. He's been lined up next to Bruschi or Vrabel and had some success. As a player who can play special teams and also start in a pinch, it makes much more sense that the Patriots would keep him over a Barry Gardner or Don Davis. Or even Larry Izzo.

Well we're in agreement here about cuts. I think it's two things. (1) Beisel won't get cut if we add more LB's. (2) But second, he was supposed to be our hope for our other starting ILB, but now the coaching staff realizes he's not good enough to play starting ILB right now (maybe in the future, but not now).

If we sign Seau and trade for another, I expect Izzo to be cut. He's been slipping as our special teams ace.

.

 

[mcsully]

Just looking back and noticing this thread and some of the comments people made... To funny..
Defending Beisel....

 

[PATSNUTme]

Just looking back and noticing this thread and some of the comments people made... To funny..
Defending Beisel....

So, why bring this back up whent here are two other threads addressing the sam thing?

One has a very clear title and the ohter, mine, does not but both is about the same subject. I see nothing to be happy about beause he didn't work out.

Unless your ego is so big you need to stoke it.

 

[mcsully]

So, why bring this back up whent here are two other threads addressing the sam thing?

One has a very clear title and the ohter, mine, does not but both is about the same subject. I see nothing to be happy about beause he didn't work out.

Unless your ego is so big you need to stoke it.

I brought this back up to who that discussions have been going on for weeks about this guy.. My stance, correct as it maybe be, is that this Player has never showed anything.

I still hope we have a chance for D. Edwards..