My thoughts on financial viability of possible Peppers trade

[Grizzafted]

Sure, they sign a deal in principle. With some clause that says if Carolina doesn't withdraw the franchise tag the deal is out the window.

Let's say that deal is close to done. Next step is finding a way to get Carolina to release him and getting them the pick they want in return. I don't know too much about the law in this scenario but I think this is along the lines of what they could be doing.

 

[eom]

ohhhhh....thx for that insight on option 2.
that's huge.

also, let me just ask you this hypothetically --- let's say carolina cuts him a new deal (in accordance w/the deal his agent works out beforehand w/the pats) which, due to cap reasons, includes a 10 mil signing bonus.
this money gets paid by carolina, but could the pats kick in 10m cash on the deal?
also, is carolina then on the hook for that 10m in '09 accelerated cap?

 

[Miguel]

Perhaps Miguel can again instruct us in the ways of the force here, but IIRC the PLAYER has to sign the tender to be traded, and that the receiving TEAM has to have the cap space to initially take that $17 mil tender before they rip it up and sign the long-term deal.

see Miguel's Frequently Asked Questions Page

 

[Grizzafted]

I don't think that's how this goes down, if it goes down. With Carolina negotating contracts for us. I think it'll be a straight release of Peppers into the market and a way to get them a pick (and player?) they want.

 

[Miguel]

May I suggest reading Article XX of the CBA.

 

[Grizzafted]

Will do.

The Eagles have withdrawn the franchise tag on two players in previous years.

Middle linebacker Jeremiah Trotter was given the franchise tag in 2002 and once it was removed, he signed with the Washington Redskins. The Eagles placed the franchise tag on defensive tackle Corey Simon in 2005, but after it was removed he signed with the Indianapolis Colts.

 

[Joker]

Perhaps this would be a good time to bookmark this link...for everyone interested in the NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement

NFL Players Association

 

[drakesta101]

Will do.

The Eagles have withdrawn the franchise tag on two players in previous years.

Was it done with compensation from the teams that got the player in return?

 

[Joker]

section 2...article d

(d) Any of the required tenders set forth in this Section 2 may be withdrawn at any time, but if such tender is withdrawn, the player immediately becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent and thereafter is completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any such player, without any penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Option 2 is for a team to give Carolina a pick to remove the franchise tag, making the player a free agent. Since the team (as any team can) has already negotiated a deal with Peppers, the deal can now be executed.

The only problem with this is that Peppers would then be free to sign with ANY team.

 

[Grizzafted]

Was it done with compensation from the teams that got the player in return?

No. I think that would be something entirely new. Now the CBA says:

Any of the required tenders set forth in this Section 2 may be withdrawn at any time, but if such tender is withdrawn, the player immediately becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent and thereafter is completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club shall be completely free to negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any such player, without any penalty or restriction, including, but not limited to, Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of any kind, or any signing period.

But I don't understand whether it would be legal or not if a player who had been franchised negotiated a deal with another team that would only be valid in the event that they were a free agent. I don't see why it wouldn't be legal for the Patriots to draw up a contract that says "if Carolina withdraws the franchise tag on JP we will give them the 34th pick." I can't see why the CBA would prevent that either, considering it would be a scenario that heavily favors the player in the sense that they choose their new contract and destination.

I mean at the same time this would sort of be a no-brainer for why teams wouldn't have done it earlier, so there's got to be some legal hang ups here somewhere.

 

[solman]

No. I think that would be something entirely new. Now the CBA says:



But I don't understand whether it would be legal or not if a player who had been franchised negotiated a deal with another team that would only be valid in the event that they were a free agent. I don't see why it wouldn't be legal for the Patriots to draw up a contract that says "if Carolina withdraws the franchise tag on JP we will give them the 34th pick." I can't see why the CBA would prevent that either, considering it would be a scenario that heavily favors the player in the sense that they choose their new contract and destination.

I mean at the same time this would sort of be a no-brainer for why teams wouldn't have done it earlier, so there's got to be some legal hang ups here somewhere.

You can not sign a deal that only becomes valid once the Franchise tag is removed.

If you do sign a deal before the Franchise tag is removed, you owe two #1 draft picks.

BUT, agents and GMs operate on a handshake culture. It is generally possible to shake on a deal, and be confident that the other party will honor it. To do otherwise would make it very difficult for the offending party to continue doing business in the NFL.

 

[NE39]

I put this in the other thread, but here is how it would work:

The CBA says the following:

*Side Letter 11/1/95: Sec. 1

(3) If a Player Contract provides for an increase in Salary upon the assignment of such contract to another NFL Team, such increase shall be included in the player’s Salary upon such assignment and be attributable to the Team paying the bonus.

It is under section 5 of the CBA portion outlining how contracts are counted on the cap. It means, Carolina can sign him to an extension on with the stipulation he receives his bonus after being traded to the Pats. When he is dealt, the Pats inherit the new contract, pay the bonus and the first year cap hit is whatever is outlined in the extension he signed to facilitate the trade.

The sticking point is if Carolina signs him to an extension prior to July 15 they lose the tag for the life of the extended contract. That would suck for them.

However, under the Franchise section of the CBA is this little nugget:

*Side Letter 1/18/94: Sec. 1

* If a club executes a multiyear agreement with a player designated as a Franchise Player and trades the player the same day to another NFL club, the assignor club will be deemed to have used its franchise designation for only the League Year in which the contract was executed.

So, if:

1) The Pats negotiate an extension with Peppers agent
2) Carolina signs him to that extension with the bonus being paid upon assignment to the Pats in trade
3) He is traded the same day he signs with Carolina
4) Pats pay the bonus and get him signed to the new deal without his tender being a factor.

Thus, the tender he is under would not inhibit any trade.

FYI... the reason I know this is it came into play when the Pats traded Tebucky Jones to New Orleans.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I mean at the same time this would sort of be a no-brainer for why teams wouldn't have done it earlier, so there's got to be some legal hang ups here somewhere.

The CBA is not the sole instrument by which the NFL is governed; for example, IIRC, the CBA does not explicitly state which draft picks teams are eligible to use in a tender offer (e.g., the Pats could use any of their second-rounders to sign an RFA). [At a minimum, there's also the Constitution and By-Laws and the Rulebook.]

 

[eom]

thx for that info.

so, apparently it's just a question of fitting him under as you would any fa, which makes things a little more possible.

 

[NE39]

thx for that info.

so, apparently it's just a question of fitting him under as you would any fa, which makes things a little more possible.

Exactly. Carolina is signing him to the contract for the Pats under the stipulation he is traded. Since NE pay the bonus, it counts against their cap but they are just trading for the contract we would sign him to anyway (not the tender). Carolina doesn't take any acceleration because the Pats pay the bonus.

Carolina would have to execute it all in a day to not lose their franchise tag the life of the deal.

 

[TealSox]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

I believe you only get to restructure once per 12 mos.

I remember reading that in the rules under the current CBA. I want to say that a player can't be traded after re-signing till 12 months after signing the contract. It doesn't sound right after I typed it, but I'm pretty sure that any signing bonus given to a player by a team is not transferred to the team the player is traded to. So in this case, if the Panthers signed Pepper to a 5 year 65 mil contract with a signing bonus of 15 mil, the Panthers would be on the line for the signing bonus (of which would impact them all in one year).

Feel free to correct my mistakes.

 

[NE39]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

I remember reading that in the rules under the current CBA. I want to say that a player can't be traded after re-signing till 12 months after signing the contract. It doesn't sound right after I typed it, but I'm pretty sure that any signing bonus given to a player by a team is not transferred to the team the player is traded to. So in this case, if the Panthers signed Pepper to a 5 year 65 mil contract with a signing bonus of 15 mil, the Panthers would be on the line for the signing bonus (of which would impact them all in one year).

Feel free to correct my mistakes.

Not if the bonus is stipulated based upon being traded to NE. Then NE pays the bonus, inherits the contract and Carolina takes no acceleration.

 

[eom]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

I remember reading that in the rules under the current CBA. I want to say that a player can't be traded after re-signing till 12 months after signing the contract. It doesn't sound right after I typed it, but I'm pretty sure that any signing bonus given to a player by a team is not transferred to the team the player is traded to. So in this case, if the Panthers signed Pepper to a 5 year 65 mil contract with a signing bonus of 15 mil, the Panthers would be on the line for the signing bonus (of which would impact them all in one year).

Feel free to correct my mistakes.

yeah, that was what I believed, also, and was my biggest question on the whole thing, but I think ne39 cleared that up pretty well just above ^^.

 

[TealSox]

Re: Peppers Deal Financially Unlikely (Riess)

Not if the bonus is stipulated based upon being traded to NE. Then NE pays the bonus, inherits the contract and Carolina takes no acceleration.

Them agents and sports lawyers have a way of doing anything. Good to know.