My knock on Maroney and the offense

[Deus Irae]

His dancing has landed him forth on the depth chart. Would you agree that is where he sits?

Maroney is only fourth on the depth chart if Belichick has taken leave of his senses.

O.K. Simon, you are the G.M. Someone offers you a third round pick for Maroney (Texans, Eagles, Cards, etc.). You know you can draft a Pat White, Rashad Jennings, Andre Brown, Eric Wood, T.J. Lang, Jasper Brinkley, Ingeseius, Kruger etc. with that pick. None are a guarantee I agree, but would you not consider that knowing again full well that he is gone in 2010?
DW Toys

1.) You need to stop calling DaBruinz "Simon". The new censorship laws.....

2.) I can't think of a scenario where I find a 3rd round pick to be a worthwhile return on the next 2 years of Maroney.

 

[ausbacker]

I've never understood Maroney being the maligned character amongst a certain proportion of the Patriots fanbase. I honestly believe he will come good this season as he has the necessary tools, will be motivated to achieve, has a fantastic free agent veteran in Taylor to mentor him and works out of the same change room as TB12 under BB's tutelage.

 

[DaBruinz]

Benjarvus Green-Ellis ran for 74 rushes totaling 275 yards, and 5 TD's--for an average carry of 3.7 yards, not the measly 2.8 that you stated

And whatever blocking scheme that was used was quite effective, as I thought we had our 3rd highest total ever in franchise history

I stand corrected on Ellis. However,stats do not tell the whole story. First and foremost, the team was helped by getting to face some of the worst run defenses in the league. They only played 5 games against "top 10" Run Defenses. They hung 257 yards on the Broncos (30th) and 277 yards on Oakland (27th) for a total of 534 yards. That was 23% of their rushing yards for the year in 2 games. If you add in the KC game and the 2 Buffalo games, then you have another 438 yards. Almost 1000 yards in 5 games against some of the worst run defenses. Am I supposed to be impressed by that? Should anyone?

 

[DaBruinz]

Maroney gets to the line TOO fast? Well, lets say thats true. What will be done this year to fix it, that they didnt try in previous seasons? All i know is that Sammy, and the Lawfirm would get the ball, and plow straight ahead into either a big hole, or small hole, but they got through. Maroney looks like he hits a brick wall, and starts dancing. I agree the guy has a ton of talent, but i don't think he's the right fit for this offense. Could it be a vision issue? I don't know, im not an expert.

Maroney has never been a power runner in the mold of Corey Dillon. Maroney can run with power, but inside isn't where he's most effective. He is most effective when he can cut outside because he has the ability to turn the corner and outrun defenders..

Do you know what they have tried in previous seasons? The only difference that I noted was Brady lining up more in the shotgun for hand-offs to Maroney.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maroney is a talented guy who doesn't follow the coaching staff's directions. How many times have we heard that the staff wants him to hit the hole, but he keeps trying to hit a homerun? The team anouncers tell us that, the national TV guys tell us that, the writers who cover the team tells us that. That opinion isn't universally made up by these people, it is fed to them by somebody from the team.

Maroney is still the most talented RB we have on the team. Every time he touches the ball he has the ability to break it. What he has to understand is that his job is to work within the system and run the play the way it was drawn up.

Could you please provide some links to articles where the Pats have told Maroney to hit the hole and not the homerun? Thanks.

P.S. You can't hit the hole if its not there because you are too early or because it didn't get opened to begin with.

 

[DaBruinz]

Why do people keep returning to this same complaint? For crying out loud, you don't even make the same gripes. If Maroney's problems were truly as legion as you all combine to make it seem, he'd never have made it out of Pee Wee football, nevermind ever getting to the NFL.

Synovia has already effectively destroyed most of the whining complaints on a couple of other threads, so I don't want to go down the data side of things. Instead, I'll point out some other 'issues', and interject some other thoughts and notions.

1.) Maroney in the game tends to tip off the opponent that it's a running play. He's not in on passing situations and the team doesn't throw him the ball enough. Opponents are allowed to key on Maroney in ways that they can't key on the other running backs. Maroney still gets his yards.

2.) In his two 'full' seasons, Maroney has had a higher YPC than Dillon and had the same YPC as Morris.

3.) People complaining about his durability should realize that, while Maroney has only played 16 of 32 regular season games over the past 2 seasons, Morris has only played in 19 of those 32 games.

4.) Joseph Addai, the runner Maroney was most often compared to when he came into the league, has seen his game decline in each of his 3 seasons in the NFL. He's 2 years older than Maroney, has taken a lot more pounding in the NFL, and may already be past his prime.

5.) Maurice Jones-Drew, the other runner generally compared to Maroney, has also seen his YPC decline every year he's been in the NFL. He was a human bowling ball during his rookie year. Last year, he was a relatively pedestrian player with a 4.2 YPC. He's about the same age as Maroney, and I don't think he's in decline, but it's important to note that his offensive line was devestated last year and his numbers went down. You know, like the Maroney situation in New England before he went on IR.

6.) I expect Fred Taylor to be a great sounding board for Maroney, since he had to deal with the same sort of nonsense from the Jaguars fans when he was a younger player.

7.) I hope that the new O.C. (whomever it may be) will use Maroney to catch more passes, will allow for more sweeps and more one-cut runs, and will allow Maroney to develop a full game on the field.

Deus - I am a big fan of Maroney and have been there when the naysayers have been saying to dump him. What I did here was post 2 things that are partially interconnected.

 

[Deus Irae]

Deus - I am a big fan of Maroney and have been there when the naysayers have been saying to dump him. What I did here was post 2 things that are partially interconnected.

DaBruinz, I wasn't referring to you, but to those who followed you with the nonsense like "vision", etc... My apologies, because I should have made that clear.

 

[DaBruinz]

His dancing has landed him forth on the depth chart. Would you agree that is where he sits?

O.K. Simon, you are the G.M. Someone offers you a third round pick for Maroney (Texans, Eagles, Cards, etc.). You know you can draft a Pat White, Rashad Jennings, Andre Brown, Eric Wood, T.J. Lang, Jasper Brinkley, Ingeseius, Kruger etc. with that pick. None are a guarantee I agree, but would you not consider that knowing again full well that he is gone in 2010?
DW Toys

Maroney is 1st on the depth chart. To say otherwise is pure foolery.

And no, I wouldn't trade Maroney for a 3rd round pick. Not at all.

On a side note, Jasper Brinkley isn't worth a 3rd rounder. Maybe a 5th, but not a 3rd.

Oh, btw, the Pats hold Maroney's rights as a restricted free agent since he'll only have 5 years of service in an uncapped year. So, for a minimal amount of money, the Pats can hold onto him for a 1st round pick.

 

[DaBruinz]

DaBruinz, I wasn't referring to you, but to those who followed you with the nonsense like "vision", etc... My apologies, because I should have made that clear.

Okie doke. No worries.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Could you please provide some links to articles where the Pats have told Maroney to hit the hole and not the homerun? Thanks.

P.S. You can't hit the hole if its not there because you are too early or because it didn't get opened to begin with.

Just an observation, nothing more. If you go back and watch the games he has been in the anouncers make the comment a couple of times a game. Listen to the radio and Gil and Gino make the same comment.

I like Maroney, I think he is the most talented back on the roster, but watch him play and you will see him pass up 3 yards to try for 15 when he should be happy with the three yard gain. Barry Sanders could get away with doing that, but I can't think of another back who can. All Maroney needs to do is hit the hole he is supposed to hit and he will be ok. I also hope that the offence passes the ball to him more often this year. Get him the ball in the open field and he is very dangerous.

This should be an interesting year for him. It is his make or break year on the Patriots.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Maroney is 1st on the depth chart. To say otherwise is pure foolery.

And no, I wouldn't trade Maroney for a 3rd round pick. Not at all.

On a side note, Jasper Brinkley isn't worth a 3rd rounder. Maybe a 5th, but not a 3rd.

Oh, btw, the Pats hold Maroney's rights as a restricted free agent since he'll only have 5 years of service in an uncapped year. So, for a minimal amount of money, the Pats can hold onto him for a 1st round pick.

I don't know about #1 on the depth chart, but I would believe that he is at #2 going into training camp. Sammy Morris has to be #1 at this point and then there is Fred Taylor to consider, but my guess is they want Maroney to succeed and will give him as amny carries as it takes to really make a decision. I look at Fred Taylor/Lawrence Maroney backfield as just as good as Dillon/Maroney was but Taylor has to earn his spot.

 

[Rob0729]

Could you please provide some links to articles where the Pats have told Maroney to hit the hole and not the homerun? Thanks.

P.S. You can't hit the hole if its not there because you are too early or because it didn't get opened to begin with.

There has been talk by the media that the Pats coaching staff felt that way, but they have never said publically or acknowledged that they said privately that they felt Maroney should try to hit the holes harder and not try to hit a homerun. The thing is that we do not know if Belichick and McDaniels felt that or the particular source (who may or may not been in a position to make that assessment) or the person in the media taking his own personal opinions and applying it to information that may or may not have been given to him/her which is different than what is being portrayed (Like I have a feeling Curran did with his Brady story making it sound worse than it was using the worst case scenario becuse he thought he had a scoop).

 

[Ring 6]

There has been talk by the media that the Pats coaching staff felt that way, but they have never said publically or acknowledged that they said privately that they felt Maroney should try to hit the holes harder and not try to hit a homerun. The thing is that we do not know if Belichick and McDaniels felt that or the particular source (who may or may not been in a position to make that assessment) or the person in the media taking his own personal opinions and applying it to information that may or may not have been given to him/her which is different than what is being portrayed (Like I have a feeling Curran did with his Brady story making it sound worse than it was using the worst case scenario becuse he thought he had a scoop).

Its ignorant to think that the way this organization is run that the media would be privy to the coaching staff's opinion and assessment of any player.

 

[Ring 6]

I stand corrected on Ellis. However,stats do not tell the whole story. First and foremost, the team was helped by getting to face some of the worst run defenses in the league. They only played 5 games against "top 10" Run Defenses. They hung 257 yards on the Broncos (30th) and 277 yards on Oakland (27th) for a total of 534 yards. That was 23% of their rushing yards for the year in 2 games. If you add in the KC game and the 2 Buffalo games, then you have another 438 yards. Almost 1000 yards in 5 games against some of the worst run defenses. Am I supposed to be impressed by that? Should anyone?

Flawed. Any player or team that compiles impressive stats will compile more against bad teams and less against good teams. If you play 16 games in a 32 team league AVERAGE would be to face the 31st or 32nd, AND 29 or 30 AND 27 or 28 AND 25 or 26 AND 23 or 24.
In other words, it would be average to play 5 games against the bottom 10 teams in the league.
If you do, then how can you belittle the stats because of the schedule?
How many do you want them to play against 'top 10 defenses'? 5 is exactly what it should be, meaning based upon that one criteria their stats are on an even playing field, schedule-wise.

 

[Ring 6]

Maroney is a talented guy who doesn't follow the coaching staff's directions. How many times have we heard that the staff wants him to hit the hole, but he keeps trying to hit a homerun? The team anouncers tell us that, the national TV guys tell us that, the writers who cover the team tells us that. That opinion isn't universally made up by these people, it is fed to them by somebody from the team.

Maroney is still the most talented RB we have on the team. Every time he touches the ball he has the ability to break it. What he has to understand is that his job is to work within the system and run the play the way it was drawn up.

This post is 100% gossip and conjecture.
Please show me a viable source that reports what the COACHING STAFF tells Maroney that he fails to follow.
Please show me anywhere that he has been shown to not follow the play the way it is drawn up. Show me anything that says he 'is always going for the homerun'.

Not of this is backed by a sliver of evidence, and none of it is even true either.

 

[JoeSixPat]

My $.02 here is that I think Belichick and the NFL are looking at a slightly different RB paradigm

An "RB by Committee" doesn't always work - but it can with the right personnel and from a practical standpoint, the issue of injuries almost necessitates filling your roster with qualtiy middle class RBs rather than one standout.

In that respect I think Maroney is a nice fit with the Patriots. I don't fault him for not being a 1600 yard a year guy - let alone the fact that he's not a 1200 yard a year guy - or even a 1000 yard a year guy.

And while I think Taylor has a lot left to give - and BJGE has a lot more room to grow and develop, I'm certainly not thinking (like the Bleacher Report poser) that Taylor is coming in to be the starting RB or that Maroney is washed up and BJGE has cemented his role as the starter.

I felt our running game did a decent job last year under difficult circumstances and I think it will be better this year - so I'm just having a tough time understanding what all the attention is on knocking down Maroney. Maybe he's not lived up to 1st round expectations, but let's just look at him as a contributor rather than whether he's achieved expectations from years back.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't know about #1 on the depth chart, but I would believe that he is at #2 going into training camp. Sammy Morris has to be #1 at this point and then there is Fred Taylor to consider, but my guess is they want Maroney to succeed and will give him as amny carries as it takes to really make a decision. I look at Fred Taylor/Lawrence Maroney backfield as just as good as Dillon/Maroney was but Taylor has to earn his spot.

I think the starting role is Maroney's to win or lose. If he performs he will get the starting job, if not it goes to Morris. He isn't guaranteed anything though. Not even close. Maroney if performs is the future of the RB corp. Morris is probably gone after this year, has had his own durability problems the last two years, and at his age will probably best used more sparingly so he doesn't break down.

Ideally I think the Pats want Maroney to win the starting role. He has far more upside beyond this season than any of the other RBs on the roster other than maybe BJGE who may not even make it long past the draft. If he can improve and stay healthy, he could be the lead back here for several years.

 

[Ring 6]

Amen! Can I get a witness!

I also hope that Maroney can improve his pass blocking skills, so the Pats can put him out there more, and D's won't key on the run.

The other thing to recognize is that Maroney will need to do what is best for the Patriots, not the Patriots doing what is best for Maroney.

 

[Rob0729]

Its ignorant to think that the way this organization is run that the media would be privy to the coaching staff's opinion and assessment of any player.

The clandestine way the Pats run their organization is way overstated. Media people do get information from sources and stuff does get leaked from inside the confines of the walls of Gillette. The Pats are more tight lipped than virtually any organization in the league, but it is impossible for them to plug every leak out there.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't know about #1 on the depth chart, but I would believe that he is at #2 going into training camp. Sammy Morris has to be #1 at this point and then there is Fred Taylor to consider, but my guess is they want Maroney to succeed and will give him as amny carries as it takes to really make a decision. I look at Fred Taylor/Lawrence Maroney backfield as just as good as Dillon/Maroney was but Taylor has to earn his spot.

Why does Morris have to be "#1"? Maroney and Morris have nearly identical rushing stats when you take out the stat padding games.