My Blueprint for the Defense

[mayoclinic]

I may well be overreacting a little. Could be. A fair opinion. Or perhaps I'm just a little irritated at the snark.

???

Was something said to irritate you? If I had anything to do with it, I apologize.

I certainly don't have either a crystal ball or a monopoly on draft wisdom (if any at all). We see things differently about Suh, but there's no foul in that. I'd be happy to have him, I just don't see it happening on either side.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Raji's play has fallen off quite a bit. I'm a bit leery.

A part of me wonders how much of that is due to GB

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Raji's play has fallen off quite a bit. I'm a bit leery.

So Mayo check this out.
I remember when B.J Raji was coming out, all the hype was about how much of a physical specimen he was. Yes, part of it was his dominance while at BC, but his combine and everything helped him rocket up draft boards, eventually leading to a high draft pick. Well I went and looked at Kenrick Ellis combine numbers and was mind blown how similar they were. It a way, he's actually more athletic, or atleast he was coming out of college.

Raji numbers :

Height : 6'1
Weight : 337
40 Yrd dash : 5.12
20 Yrd dash : 2.93
10 Yrd dash : 1.69
225lb bench : 33
Vertical : 32
Broad jump : 08'07"
20yrd Shuttle 4.69
3 cone 7.90

Ellis numbers :

Height 6'5
Weight 346
40 yrd dash : 5.16
20 Yrd Dash : 2.99
10 Yrd dash : 1.74
225lb bench : 26
Vertical : 32
Broad jump : 08'06"
20yrd Shuttle 4.88
3 cone 7.84

I mean yeah, numbers aren't everything, but those are pretty impressive for a man whose 6'5 346lbs. He's much more athletic this I thought. Im starting to really want this guy.

 

[manxman2601]

So Mayo check this out.
I remember when B.J Raji was coming out, all the hype was about how much of a physical specimen he was. Yes, part of it was his dominance while at BC, but his combine and everything helped him rocket up draft boards, eventually leading to a high draft pick. Well I went and looked at Kenrick Ellis combine numbers and was mind blown how similar they were. It a way, he's actually more athletic, or atleast he was coming out of college.

Raji numbers :

Height : 6'1
Weight : 337
40 Yrd dash : 5.12
20 Yrd dash : 2.93
10 Yrd dash : 1.69
225lb bench : 33
Vertical : 32
Broad jump : 08'07"
20yrd Shuttle 4.69
3 cone 7.90

Ellis numbers :

Height 6'5
Weight 346
40 yrd dash : 5.16
20 Yrd Dash : 2.99
10 Yrd dash : 1.74
225lb bench : 26
Vertical : 32
Broad jump : 08'06"
20yrd Shuttle 4.88
3 cone 7.84

I mean yeah, numbers aren't everything, but those are pretty impressive for a man whose 6'5 346lbs. He's much more athletic this I thought. Im starting to really want this guy.

It's not really relevant but Jesse Williams, formerly of Alabama, was released by Seattle today. I saw someone on Twitter say that he was better than Danny Shelton and I agree 110%. Williams would have been a great replacement for Wilfork. Shame about his knees.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Ive never seen a 2nd stringer have a 4 min highlight reel.
4 mins of run stopping goodness!
What sticks out is, he's not very fat for a man of his weight. At only 27 years old, id rather bring him in then waste a high draft pick on a player like Jordan Phillips.


for a player that has never play more then 17 percent snap count in his 4 seasons, thats a pretty long video of plays made. especially considering he doesn't have a negative run grade at all on PFF.

 

[mayoclinic]

So Mayo check this out.
I remember when B.J Raji was coming out, all the hype was about how much of a physical specimen he was. Yes, part of it was his dominance while at BC, but his combine and everything helped him rocket up draft boards, eventually leading to a high draft pick. Well I went and looked at Kenrick Ellis combine numbers and was mind blown how similar they were. It a way, he's actually more athletic, or atleast he was coming out of college.

Raji numbers :

Height : 6'1
Weight : 337
40 Yrd dash : 5.12
20 Yrd dash : 2.93
10 Yrd dash : 1.69
225lb bench : 33
Vertical : 32
Broad jump : 08'07"
20yrd Shuttle 4.69
3 cone 7.90

Ellis numbers :

Height 6'5
Weight 346
40 yrd dash : 5.16
20 Yrd Dash : 2.99
10 Yrd dash : 1.74
225lb bench : 26
Vertical : 32
Broad jump : 08'06"
20yrd Shuttle 4.88
3 cone 7.84

I mean yeah, numbers aren't everything, but those are pretty impressive for a man whose 6'5 346lbs. He's much more athletic this I thought. Im starting to really want this guy.

I think you should also include Dan Williams in the comparison:

Height : 6'2
Weight : 327
40 Yrd dash : 5.19
20 Yrd dash : 2.96
10 Yrd dash : 1.75
225lb bench : 27
Vertical : 32
Broad jump : 08'00"
20yrd Shuttle 4.87
3 cone 7.88

Both Williams and Ellis are 27.

 

[mayoclinic]

It's not really relevant but Jesse Williams, formerly of Alabama, was released by Seattle today. I saw someone on Twitter say that he was better than Danny Shelton and I agree 110%. Williams would have been a great replacement for Wilfork. Shame about his knees.

I loved Williams in college. He was high on my wish list.

The don't all work out the way you hope they will.

 

[BobDigital]

Short version.

Sign Branch, McCourty, Revis. I think McCourty is still on the radar. If Possible sign Ayers too but that depends on his cost.

sign a low cost DT vet and draft a DT. If the rookie works out cut the vet you signed and if he needs time carry both.

Look to draft a DE in the first 4 rounds to challenge Buchanan.

The thing is you need to consider cost and i think you can only keep Ayers if McCourty is not on this team or if you can have him for a lot cheaper thanI think you can.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

I think you should also include Dan Williams in the comparison:

Height : 6'2
Weight : 327
40 Yrd dash : 5.19
20 Yrd dash : 2.96
10 Yrd dash : 1.75
225lb bench : 27
Vertical : 32
Broad jump : 08'00"
20yrd Shuttle 4.87
3 cone 7.88

Both Williams and Ellis are 27.

I love Dan Williams, he'd be my number one target if we had more cap space. Unfortunately I think were going to need as much $$ as we can scrounge up to retain Dmac and Revis. With the current FA market for safeties and Corners, were better off finding replacement value at the DT position. Who knows, maybe, and hopefully the team works two great deals out with Dmac and Revis, and well basically have wilforks 8 million to spend on a replacement, which would put us in the Dan Williams range. That would be really nice.

 

[mayoclinic]

Short version.

Sign Branch, McCourty, Revis. I think McCourty is still on the radar. If Possible sign Ayers too but that depends on his cost.

sign a low cost DT vet and draft a DT. If the rookie works out cut the vet you signed and if he needs time carry both.

Look to draft a DE in the first 4 rounds to challenge Buchanan.

The thing is you need to consider cost and i think you can only keep Ayers if McCourty is not on this team or if you can have him for a lot cheaper thanI think you can.

That's a very good plan, and pretty much what I'd like to see, except that I really want to keep Ayers. But it would look something like this:

- DT: Sign Kenrick Ellis or Dan Williams (Williams will probably be too pricey), re-sign Alan Branch, and draft Marcus Hardison on day 2.

- EDGE: Re-sign Akeem Ayers and add a player in the draft. Options include Bud Dupree at 32, Owamagbe Odighizuwa at 32 or with a trade back, Danielle Hunter with a trade back from 32, or Max Valles in the late 3rd round or day 3.

- LB: Restructure Jerod Mayo. I'm fine re-signing Jonathan Casillas. I'm also fine adding someone like Ben Heeney in the draft if he's available in the right range.

- DB: Try as hard as possible to keep it as is. Possibly trade Alfonzo Dennard and add a day 3 DB.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

That's a very good plan, and pretty much what I'd like to see, except that I really want to keep Ayers. But it would look something like this:

- DT: Sign Kenrick Ellis or Dan Williams (Williams will probably be too pricey), re-sign Alan Branch, and draft Marcus Hardison on day 2.

- EDGE: Re-sign Akeem Ayers and add a player in the draft. Options include Bud Dupree at 32, Owamagbe Odighizuwa at 32 or with a trade back, Danielle Hunter with a trade back from 32, or Max Valles in the late 3rd round or day 3.

- LB: Restructure Jerod Mayo. I'm fine re-signing Jonathan Casillas. I'm also fine adding someone like Ben Heeney in the draft if he's available in the rate range.

- DB: Try as hard as possible to keep it as is. Possibly trade Alfonzo Dennard and add a day 3 DB.

That would be perfect. Im really hoping we can find a trade back to acquire another 3rd. However if Bud Dupree were there at 32, you have to take him. The thought of his and collins working together gives me goose bumps. If he available, at around 25, I think he's worth a trade up.

 

[captain stone]

It's not really relevant but Jesse Williams, formerly of Alabama, was released by Seattle today. I saw someone on Twitter say that he was better than Danny Shelton and I agree 110%. Williams would have been a great replacement for Wilfork. Shame about his knees.

I agree. Williams was on my very short list of candidates for the #s 91 & 102 picks (the others:
DE Alex Okafor, OC Brian Schwenke, OG/C Barrett Jones, WR Quinton Patton).

 

[mayoclinic]

Interesting tweet from Ethan Hammerman:

I could see the Patriots making a run at Sean Weatherspoon. In the market for SLB depth.

https://twitter.com/Ethanhamm/status/574263991498895360

Eric Edholm reports that the Falcons are close to re-signing Weatherspoon, whereas Ian Rapoport claims that the team is likely to part ways with him:

This is a surprise: #Falcons LB Sean Weatherspoon will hit the open market and is unlikely to be back in Atlanta. Was a priority.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/574263148791791616

I can't see his price range being in the Pats' budget, but it would be a very interesting move.

 

[Marqui]

I would say LB is about the last of this team's needs.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

I would say LB is about the last of this team's needs.

Its not a need, but sometime you do if the right player is available, you just have to take him. Dupree for instance. What we would be able to do with him would be scary. He's the kind of player that would make you change the whole landscape, and plans for defense. Dupree and collins paired up, with Hightower, and Mayo working the middle would make a scary scary 3-4 base. I mean real scary.

Then you bring in Kendrick Ellis to play NT, and draft Marcus Hardison to play 3-4 DE along with Easley on the other side. In my eyes, if we came out of this draft with that, Id be jumping in joy! Not only would that give us a nasty 3-4 base, all of these players can effectively and productively move around to create a dangerous 4-3, and 5-2 base.

 

[captain stone]

I would say LB is about the last of this team's needs...

…which is why ridding themselves of Mayo's undeserving cap hit should've happened already.

Edit: never mind; just read in a thread on the main forum that Mayo has a $4.5M injury
something-or-other, making his release for cap savings impossible. Too bad.

 

[AzorianPats]

I would say LB is about the last of this team's needs.

I disagree, considering High tower might not be ready to start the season, Mayo missed significant time 2 years in a row, and guys like Ayers and Casilias are both FA. LB is a need.

 

[unoriginal]

Its not a need, but sometime you do if the right player is available, you just have to take him. Dupree for instance. What we would be able to do with him would be scary. He's the kind of player that would make you change the whole landscape, and plans for defense. Dupree and collins paired up, with Hightower, and Mayo working the middle would make a scary scary 3-4 base. I mean real scary.

Then you bring in Kendrick Ellis to play NT, and draft Marcus Hardison to play 3-4 DE along with Easley on the other side. In my eyes, if we came out of this draft with that, Id be jumping in joy! Not only would that give us a nasty 3-4 base, all of these players can effectively and productively move around to create a dangerous 4-3, and 5-2 base.

Nickel defense is base and has been since 2011.

Pats tried a 3-3 nickel as a base first game against Miami. The one where Ninkovich sat and Joe Vellano started at LE. Rest of the year, 4-2.

Dupree would have to be some player indeed to take that fifth DB off the field.

 

[cstjohn17]

Nickel defense is base and has been since 2011.

Pats tried a 3-3 nickel as a base first game against Miami. The one where Ninkovich sat and Joe Vellano started at LE. Rest of the year, 4-2.

Dupree would have to be some player indeed to take that fifth DB off the field.

I agree, I would rather sign players to develop a quality secondary (Revis, McCourty) and use a bunch of JAGS at DT. Even if the run defense is average they will be fine.

 

[mayoclinic]

Nickel defense is base and has been since 2011.

Pats tried a 3-3 nickel as a base first game against Miami. The one where Ninkovich sat and Joe Vellano started at LE. Rest of the year, 4-2.

Dupree would have to be some player indeed to take that fifth DB off the field.

I agree that sub takes defense over base. I would go further and argue that the gold standard for BB is developing a sub defense that can stop the run effectively.

I would generally target players who I think could contribute in both sub and base, but I would optimize for sub. That's why I wouldn't spend huge money or a 1st round draft pick on a big run stuffing DT, but would prefer to pick up a FA like Kenrick Ellis or a day 3 guy like Deon Simon, and focus on guys like Marcus Hardison.

I don't think Dupree would get a DB off the field as a rookie, but I think he has the skill set to be a Ninkovich successor who can play in base or sub. Dupree, Hunter and Valles are the 3 most intriguing EDGE guys in the draft for me in that regard.