My Blueprint for the Defense

[mayoclinic]

For a very nice read on the 5-2 defense and it's evolution and "modern" adaptation, see:

MHR University: The 5-2 Defense - Mile High Report

Of particular interest:

Because of the flexibility the 5-2 has, having an incredible smart middle linebacker or free safety to organize and give out assignments is vital to it's success. In most defenses the middle linebacker or free safety is the player who receives the call from the side line than adjusts the play before the scrimmage, that responsibility grows in the 5-2. The reason the flexible Peyton Offense is so successful is because of Peyton's incredible intelligence that allows him to read the defense and adjust depending on what he see's. The modern 5-2 is very similar, how the linebackers are supposed to align and how the defensive ends are to play largely depends on the middle linebacker or free safety reading the offense and calling defensive audibles.

This is probably the biggest impediment to more teams implementing the 5-2 since many of the great MLB's and safeties of the league have retired in the past few years but there are a rising number and we've seen teams like Seattle and Carolina begin to use this defense more because they now have the leadership and ability to run it, at least in terms of leadership.

But this isn't the only big hurdle of the 5-2, one more remains.

The 5-2 Demands Two Quality Man-Coverage Corners and Two Quality Zone Coverage Safeties.

The one aspect of the nature of the 5-2 is that the corners are designed to play tight man-to-man coverage, this is because there are only four defensive backs on the field. Normally there are two corners and two safeties, there are variants that rely on three corners and one safety. This allows the team which is deeper at corner than safety to offset that weakness and still be able to combat the spread offense. This formation tends to not rely on zone coverage from linebackers and defensive ends, at least not pre-snap though those positions can adjust depending on how the play develops or if the field caller (MLB or S) decides to change things up.

Since the modern 5-2 largely eliminates the need for run defense from the safeties they are regulated zone coverage. This requires the team to have more safeties that are better in coverage, or what most coordinators see as free safeties.

Also of note:

The 5-2 provides a natural defense against the option offense since it provides a spread out defensive front to counter quick outside runs and linebackers who are usually spying the play, allowing them to not be caught flat footed against the option.

The Pats seem to have the perfect personnel on the back end to run this scheme: Mayo and McCourty have the vision and smarts to make the reads and direct things, Revis, Browner and Dennard provide the man coverage corner requirement, and Logan Ryan could easily be the second zone coverage safety. Plus Jamie Collins' range and coverage ability and explosiveness make him a perfect fit in this kind of approach. Very few teams have the depth and quality of personnel on the back end to make this work.

All of the guys we've been discussing heavily in this thread - including not just the front line guys mentioned above but also LBs like Christian Jones and Jordan Tripp, hybrid LB/Ss like Ryan Shazier and Kevin Pierre-Louis, faster edge rushers like Dee Ford and Jeremiah Attaochu, and DBs like Antone Exum and Kyle Fuller - would fit perfectly into this kind of approach.

 

[mayoclinic]

For anyone interested in the evolution of defensive fronts, here's a nice 7-part series written a couple of years ago by Jene Bramel for the NY Times:

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/06/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-1/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...-f-l-defenses-part-2-evolution-of-4-3-front/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...f-l-defenses-part-3-the-4-3-front-continued/
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...wh=40AB77743099CAA160E9FACE88C9363B&gwt=regi
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...5-the-zone-blitz/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...6-the-46-defense/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/12/guide-to-n-f-l-defenses-part-7-nickel-subpackages/

It's a nice series, and worth a read.

Any defensive scheme is beatable. A lot depends on the quality of the players executing the scheme. With the caliber of some of the players currently in place, and the potential to morph between different schemes and use a lot of pre-snap disguise and post-snap shifts, I think something very special is on the horizon, especially if a couple of missing pieces can be added.

 

[mayoclinic]

From a comment in another thread:

6. I loved Mayo's 5-2 analysis. Lots of formation flexibility and we have the right talent if we can mget the inside 3 set. Jones and Ninko would be perfect fits as the outside guys. since they can set the edge, rush the pass, and drop back in coverage.

Historical note: The 5-2 was originally perfected by Bud Wilkerson at Oklahoma back in the mid 50's. It was commonly called the "Okie". It was the defense I played in HS, and the one I coached 10 years later. Years later it became known as a 3-4 in the pros.

I'd rather see us back in a 3-4 simply because the biggest value of the scheme is that you can better hide your pass rush strategy than with a 4-3. And bringing this post back full circle, Steven Tuitt would be someone who could get us back to the 3-4.

To be clear, I think the Pats will run a hybrid - be "multiple", to use BB's term - and the key is the personnel more than the scheme. A 2-gapping 3-4 worked really well with Richard Seymour, Ty Warren, Ted Washington, Keith Traylor and Vince Wilfork up front, and with Willie McGinest, Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Ted Johnson and Roman Phifer. But I don't see a 2-gapping 3-4 as the way to go - not just the difficulty of finding the right players, but also the need for greater speed on defense, to which BB has alluded. I think that the Pats have the personnel (especially if they add 1 or 2 pieces via the draft) to play a more aggressive hybrid front that can morph between a 5-2, 4-3 under (with one tackle becoming the LDE and the original left end standing up) or a 3-4 (with both tackles alongside the DT playing 3-4 DE, and both original ends standing up).

In the above schematics, you would have Wilfork/Siliga as the NT in both a 5 man and 3 man front; in a 5 man front he would be flanked by Kelly/Armstead as DTs on one side, and Jones/Vellano on the other (the exact combinations would depend on competition); in a 3 man front those players would be DEs. Chandler Jones and Rob Ninkovich/Dont'a Hightower would be ends in a 5 man front. Drop Ninkovich/Hightower back to SAM (or move Hightower to MLB, with Jamie Collins as the SAM) and shift guys over a bit and you have a 4-3 under, with Kelly/Armstead playing the LDE role. Stand up Chandler Jones in an Elephant kind of role and you have a 3-4. Depending on post-snap scheme and spacing, your "tackles" (except for the NT) may be either tackles or ends, and your "ends" may be playing from either a 3 or a 2 point stance. Drop out a DT (usually the NT, unless you want to keep a bigger run stopper in the middle) and add a DB for a 4-2-5 sub package; you could possibly bring Collins up to end to maintain a 5 man front and play a 5-1-5, or drop Ninkovich/Hightower and play a 3-3-5. The position designations are just labels, as the roles will vary, and aren't as important as having the kind of players that can execute the schemes.

We know that BB has run a hybrid defense for several years; the Pats' D is most often compared with Seattle's in terms of combining elements of traditional 3-4 and 4-3 under schemes with variable spacing and gapping concepts:

Ode to the War Daddies «
The Seahawks, Mario Williams and the Modern Hybrid Fronts - Field Gulls
What Can We Expect From The Seahawks Defense? - Field Gulls

Seattle used a fair amount of 5-2 personnel last year; the Pats were probably limited in what they could do by personnel and injuries. I don't think it's unrealistic to assume that we'll see more of this if guys can stay healthy, and if BB can augment the talent base. While the Pats can probably get away with what they have now, there's still plenty of room to improve the personnel to be able to carry off this kind of hybrid scheme.

And that's the key. As the famous Grantland article written around the time of the 2012 SB noted, "of course, nothing Belichick does will transform the Patriots’ defense into a great one; they don’t have the talent." Since that time BB has added a ton of talent to a 2011 defense that featured Vince Wilfork, Jerod Mayo and Devin McCourty: Chandler Jones, Dont'a Hightower, Jamie Collins, Darrelle Revis, Brandon Browner, Alfonzo Dennard, Logan Ryan. But there are still some areas where the talent level needs to be upgraded.

The Pats have perhaps the most talented back 7 in the NFL with Mayo-Hightower-Collins at LB (especially if Collins makes the expected progression and picks up where he left off last year) and Revis-Browner-McCourty-Dennard-Ryan at DB. Sure, we could use depth at LB, a speedy LB/S hybrid, and you can never have enough good DBs; but the DL is where the personnel are more of a question mark, IMO. Wilfork is coming off a major injury and may never be the same, Jones and Ninkovich wore down playing too many snaps, and Kelly (coming off an ACL) plus Armstead-Jones-Vellano just isn't something I'd want to count on filling the two DT/DE roles on either side of the NT to run that kind of a hybrid scheme. Some combination of Aaron Donald, Dominique Easley, Ra'Shede Hageman and Stephon Tuitt would provide a huge boost.

Although I'm not going to give up hope on Aaron Donald until someone else picks him in the draft, I think that a combination of Stephon Tuitt and Dominique Easley would be darn good, and the Pats could quite possibly get both with 29+62 if they are lucky, and if they can move around a bit. That would give the Pats a 5 man base DL that looks like:

Ninkovich/Hightower - Tuitt/Kelly/Armstead - Wilfork/Siliga - Easley/Chr. Jones - Cha. Jones/Buchanan

Tuitt/Kelly/Armstead could play a "3 Tech" role in a 5 man front, or a LDE role in a 4-3 under with Ninkovich/Hightower moving back to LB. And if Chandler Jones stands up in a McGinest kind of "elephant" role then you have a 3-4. That would be a pretty deep and versatile line, with a lot of young talent to develop for the long term.

The other part that's clearly needed is more "space players" at the second level behind Mayo and Collins (Ninkovich and Hightower are clearly able to play a hybrid DE/OLB role, but neither is a pure "space player"). That's where guys like Christian Jones, Jordan Tripp, Ryan Shazier and Kevin Pierre-Louis come in.

I think with 3-4 additions on defense BB will have the tools to make this a legitimate top defense that can create mismatches with just about anyone.

 

[BobDigital]

Mayo I really like your idea of the 5-2-4 defense. However there is one thing I feel obligated to say and pump the breaks on it a little.

while I am all for drafting Tuitt & Easely at those spots I think under your model we fail to address one of our most pressing needs in a backup for Jones/Nink (or a player to replace Nink as the starting DE).

I understand Tuitt & Easley can kind of fill that spot but neither is a true 4-3 DE in my opinion. Also suggesting the solution for their backups are Hightower & Buchanan just means to me we likely put ourselves in the same position we did last year when they were over played and ineffective down the stretch.

This is not to say I don't think we should use your idea or pick up your players. I just think if they go that route they need to be sure to somehow address a the 3rd DE spot with a player fits that prototype build & has experience in this spot.

 

[mayoclinic]

Mayo I really like your idea of the 5-2-4 defense. However there is one thing I feel obligated to say and pump the breaks on it a little.

while I am all for drafting Tuitt & Easely at those spots I think under your model we fail to address one of our most pressing needs in a backup for Jones/Nink (or a player to replace Nink as the starting DE).

I understand Tuitt & Easley can kind of fill that spot but neither is a true 4-3 DE in my opinion. Also suggesting the solution for their backups are Hightower & Buchanan just means to me we likely put ourselves in the same position we did last year when they were over played and ineffective down the stretch.

This is not to say I don't think we should use your idea or pick up your players. I just think if they go that route they need to be sure to somehow address a the 3rd DE spot with a player fits that prototype build & has experience in this spot.

I agree that more depth is needed. However, a couple of things to consider:

1. The "ends" this kind of hybrid have to be fluid enough to stand up at times, but still strong enough to set the edge and support the run.

2. The 2014 draft is very weak at the DE position.

I think that the combination of edge setting ability and the ability to drop into space rules out both some of the smaller sub rushers (Dee Ford) and some of the less fluid and mobile 4-3 DE prospects (Scott Crichton). That leaves me with Kony Ealy, Trent Murphy and Demarcus Lawrence, Marcus Smith as the top 4 DEs with the requisite skill set. I would be fine with adding any of those guys, but I'm not sure that any would be as critical as upgrading the two 3/5 Tech positions. I'd probably be fine getting a guy like Will Smith as a stopgap for a year, and drafting/signing as a UDFA some athletic guys with upside like Terrance Fede or Elhadji Ndiaye and giving them a year to develop on the PS.

The other area where depth is clearly needed is at the "space LB" position, as I discussed. You need LBs who can cover a lot of territory. Mayo and Collins together could be really solid, but you need some depth behind them. That's part of why I like Jordan Tripp and Christian Jones so much.

With limited draft picks, I think you need to pick and choose. It depends to some extent on how the draft falls, but if the Pats wanted to do something like the above then I would personally go with the 2 3/5 techs as my top priority followed by space LBs, then depth at DE, and finally depth at DB.

 

[mayoclinic]

Mayo I really like your idea of the 5-2-4 defense. However there is one thing I feel obligated to say and pump the breaks on it a little.

To be clear, this is not "my idea" at all. It's an extrapolation based on a logical analysis of the hybrid defense that the Pats have already been running. The Pats used a 5-2-4 base at several times in 2013, especially against run-heavy teams with a mobile QB such as Carolina, Pittsburgh and the Jets.

Looking back at Mike Reiss' defensive snap count analysis from 2013, we find observations such as the following:

This was a game in which the Patriots were in their base 3-4/5-2 defense more than the norm, hence the high snap totals for defensive linemen/ends.

Snaps: Aqib Talib plays 45 of 58 - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Veteran defensive end Andre Carter took the snaps normally played by rookie Michael Buchanan, although he was used slightly differently. In addition to coming in the 4-1-6 dime package, Carter was tapped in a 5-2-4 base defense, which appeared to be a halftime adjustment.

Snaps: Andre Carter steps in - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

One of the big storylines entering the game was how the Patriots would replace LB Jerod Mayo, and it was a multi-layered approach that was dictated by what personnel the Jets put on the field. The Patriots inserted rookie Jamie Collins into the game at Mayo’s weakside linebacker spot in the 4-3 base defense, but the Patriots trended toward a 5-2 base for a bigger front seven instead of the 4-3.

Snaps: How New England Patriots filled Jerod Mayo void - ESPN Boston

Against more spread and pass-oriented teams like Denver the Pats tended to play almost the entire game in sub packages (4-2-5 nickel and 4-1-6 dime, with a little 4-3 base):

The Patriots spent most of the game in their 4-2-5 nickel and the speed and range of Fletcher and Collins helped the club.

Snaps: Reserve LBs do their part - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

The Patriots were in their 4-2-5 nickel package for most of the game against the Broncos' three-receiver attack. They played a 4-1-6 dime sparingly, were in their base 4-3 for one snap, and also called on the short-yardage package for a few snaps.

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4757900/snaps-depth-at-db-exploited

I don't think it's a wild stretch to predict that BB is moving towards a hybrid base that can morph between a 5-2-4, 4-3 under, and 3-4, along with a predominantly 4-2-5 nickel sub package that can morph into a 3-3-5, and a 4-1-6 dime. That's basically what I've been describing in the above posts. The question is how to find the "right" personnel to run such a hybrid scheme more effectively. We saw in 2011 that we just didn't have enough defensive talent, and we found last year that we were stretched to the limit with all the injuries. Hopefully a healthier team along with an upgrade in personnel will go a long way towards allowing BB to take the leash off and run this to its full potential, closer to what we saw Seattle do last year. The moves which BB has made in the secondary are consistent with this general direction.

Also, BWT, as I mentioned earlier, Big-T deserves a lot of credit for pushing the discussion in this direction (for example, post #707 above):

Not as a base defense but how about something like this...

Personnel:
DE x2
DT x2
NT x1
LB x2
CB x3
FS x1

Lined up like:
DE: C gap
DT: B gap
NT: 2 gaps directly over the center

The Pats almost have the players to do it: Browner & Collins can match up if there's 2 TEs, 3 corners obviously means it can work against 3 WR sets too. DEs could chip any TE/RB going into a route because of where they line up or even drop into zones and bring the LBs up the A gaps.

or (post #676 above):

How about some Seahawks style 6-2-3?

They did it with Thomas as single high safety, Chancellor down in the box as one of the 2 LBs.

Outside corners in press man, single high Safety everyone else is in the box - there's certainly the secondary here now to do it.

or:

Ninkovich-Kelly-Wilfork-Armstead-Jones
Collins-Mayo
Browner-McCourty-Dennard-Revis​

Man to man with Browner, Dennard & Revis, McCourty patrolling center field, Collins on the TE. Already doable with the current roster so just think how good that would be with some rookies to add into a rotation.

Don't need a Strong Safety to be effective especially when Collins can essentially fill in most of the duties anyway and 5-2-4 can morph into a 3-4 or 4-3 easily (Ninkovich drops back and it's a 4-3, Nink & Jones drop back to make it 3-4) and the 3 corners means the it's "safe" to use against a team that uses 3 WRs.

Looking at it now, I'm liking 5-2-4 more and more as a base defense due to how it can morph in and out of looks without changing personnel - which is handy against the no huddle, it should generate plenty of pressure and it does away with the "need" for a Strong Safety.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...1107834-strong-safety-page3.html#post3804362 (post #27)

It's hardly "my idea". But however you look at it, it makes a fair amount of sense, and the Pats almost have all the horses to do some very creative stuff.

 

[mayoclinic]

Mackenzie on Manx superbinky Kyle Fuller:

Kyle Fuller Scouting Report- 2014 NFL Draft

 

[VJCPatriot]

Mackenzie on Manx superbinky Kyle Fuller:

Kyle Fuller Scouting Report- 2014 NFL Draft

See that's the thing about Fuller... He just looks like a really good solid CB. Now if he can convert to safety for us, and eat up those inside/intermediate routes and provide strong run defense, that might be a win.

Is he worth a 1st round pick though? Maybe. Even with Revis here, we have no guarantee he will return in year 2... CB is not a 1st round need, but safety is pretty high up there - we just cut Gregory and Adrian Wilson. And most people are as excited about the Chung signing as a mandatory trip to the dentist.

Fuller profile:
2014 Patriots Draft: CB Kyle Fuller - Pats Pulpit

-What is their role? Fuller is a potential day 1 starter at cornerback. He can challenge for time as a rare scheme-transcendent cornerback. While Alfonzo Dennard might be limited to press coverage, Fuller is like Talib and can play in any set.

-How many downs can he play? Four downs. He can cover, defend the run, and be a gunner.

-Does he have positional versatility? He's a corner, although he could likely make the Devin McCourty-move to free safety if needed.

Fuller vs Alabama 2013:
Kyle Fuller vs Alabama (2013) | Draft Breakdown

PS Fuller tested out more athletic than expected at the combine:

4.49 40, 38.5 VJ, 128 BJ, 6.9 3-cone, 4.19 20 shuttle
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kyle-fuller?id=2543681

He really does not look like he has the deep speed on film, just what my eyes are telling me. But if he would be playing as a safety, those numbers are actually quite good for the position.

 

[mayoclinic]

See that's the thing about Fuller... He just looks like a really good solid CB. Now if he can convert to safety for us, and eat up those inside/intermediate routes and provide strong run defense, that might be a win.

Is he worth a 1st round pick though? Maybe. Even with Revis here, we have no guarantee he will return in year 2... CB is not a 1st round need, but safety is pretty high up there - we just cut Gregory and Adrian Wilson. And most people are as excited about the Chung signing as a mandatory trip to the dentist.

Fuller profile:
2014 Patriots Draft: CB Kyle Fuller - Pats Pulpit

-What is their role? Fuller is a potential day 1 starter at cornerback. He can challenge for time as a rare scheme-transcendent cornerback. While Alfonzo Dennard might be limited to press coverage, Fuller is like Talib and can play in any set.

-How many downs can he play? Four downs. He can cover, defend the run, and be a gunner.

-Does he have positional versatility? He's a corner, although he could likely make the Devin McCourty-move to free safety if needed.

Fuller vs Alabama 2013:
Kyle Fuller vs Alabama (2013) | Draft Breakdown

I think the "front end" of the defense is a bigger priority than the back, but Fuller may be one of the 4-5 best overall defensive prospects for the Pats, and well worth it.

 

[Big-T]

Had another thought about the 5-2 last night for a blitz:

Ends drop into zones
NT & DTs essentially turn into an interior OL and block the OGs/OC and create 2 running lanes up the A gaps for the 2 Linebackers charging right down the middle!

 

[mayoclinic]

Had another thought about the 5-2 last night for a blitz:

Ends drop into zones
NT & DTs essentially turn into an interior OL and block the OGs/OC and create 2 running lanes up the A gaps for the 2 Linebackers charging right down the middle!

That's a little bit like the "grab" that SF does in the B gap with Justin Smith and Aldon Smith, as described by Tedy Bruschi:

For Justin Smith and Aldon Smith this week, it's all about the 'grab.' When they are on separate ends -- Aldon Smith on the left and Justin Smith on the right -- there is nothing to worry about there. But when they line up on the same side, that's when you really have to game-plan for it and get your protection slid that way. Even if you do, Justin Smith does one of the oldest tricks in the book, something we used to do a long time ago. It's a 'game' they run and it's called a 'TE' stunt -- the 'T' is for tackle and the 'E' is for end. The 'T' is the first letter because the tackle goes first, into the 'B' gap. And then the 'E' is the second letter because the end loops around the tackle. We used to call it a 'ME' game, because the defensive tackle would call it, looking to the defensive end while saying 'me, me, me' -- as in 'I go first' into that gap. When that defensive tackle goes into that gap, you want to stay in between that guard and tackle and get penetration so your defensive end can loop around. It sounds simple to block, right? Well, this is what happens. Justin Smith, if he's on the right side, when he gets into that gap he uses his left arm and gets under the armpit of the offensive guard and he grabs and holds. That stops the offensive lineman from being able to pass the penetrator over to the offensive tackle and switch to the looper. If the tackle has a fist full of jersey or an armpit, or he has the hand hooked, the guard can't come off, and the end has a clear path to the quarterback. This is something Justin Smith does very well.

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/page/bruschibreakdown-1213/patriots-go-kaepernick-experience

There's a lot of creative things you can do, particularly if you have ultra-athletic personnel at the 3/5 technique positions. One of the things I like so much about Donald and Easley is that I think they are athletic enough to stand up and even drop back - Donald has 4.68 speed and did LB drills at his Pro Day, and Easley had close to that kind of agility before he got hurt. You could do some very creative things with shifts, stunts and fire zone blitzes.

2 additional thoughts:

1. Looking at some of Reiss' defensive snap counts, you get a sense that BB was moving in this direction, but was limited by personnel. He used Andre Carter in the base at times in order to play a 5 man front, so he was clearly scraping the barrel for personnel to make it work.

2. Probably the 2 best teams in the NFC - Seattle and San Francisco - have offenses built around a power rushing attack and a mobile QB. The 5-2-4 is tailor made for those kind of offenses - just as BB used it against Carolina last year.

 

[Big-T]

That's a little bit like the "grab" that SF does in the B gap with Justin Smith and Aldon Smith, as described by Tedy Bruschi

It was that play and the A gap cross blitz the Steelers use (the right ILB goes through the left A gap and the left ILB goes through the right A gap). Both blitzes work most of the time.

The Ravens use a play like it too, Ngata crashes down the line and takes out the Guard & Tackle and that leaves a huge lane for Suggs to get through untouched to the QB.

A 5 man front leaves for some interesting options on stunts too because with a DE lining up outside of the OT it means naturally his first movement would be to kick out and stop the end going round the outside so if the DT crashes down to the tackle and the end loops round, if it isn't picked up the OG could be left stranded.

 

[mayoclinic]

It was that play and the A gap cross blitz the Steelers use (the right ILB goes through the left A gap and the left ILB goes through the right A gap). Both blitzes work most of the time.

That's a nice one:

Steelers play breakdown: Building on the blitz package from 2012 - Behind the Steel Curtain
http://strongfootballcoach.com/defensive-football/****-lebeaus-mike-will-cross-fire-zone-blitz/

The Ravens use a play like it too, Ngata crashes down the line and takes out the Guard & Tackle and that leaves a huge lane for Suggs to get through untouched to the QB.

That seems to be the Steve Spagnulo influence, with a lot of zone blitzing concepts:

Takeaways from the NFL Thanksgiving triple bill: Lions, Ravens, Cowboys prevail - HITC Sport
Breaking down the Baltimore Ravens pressure schemes - HITC Sport

A 5 man front leaves for some interesting options on stunts too because with a DE lining up outside of the OT it means naturally his first movement would be to kick out and stop the end going round the outside so if the DT crashes down to the tackle and the end loops round, if it isn't picked up the OG could be left stranded.

There's no end to the amount a creative and aggressive DC can do with an overloaded front, enough horses, and a talented secondary on the back end to buy a little time and mitigate the damage. I'm not yet 100% convinced that BB will open up the throttle completely, or that Matt Patricia has the creativity of Spags or LeBeau, but indications last year (at least prior to the injuries) were that BB was one gapping more than previously and starting to get creative. Hopefully we'll see more of that this year.

 

[mayoclinic]

Had another thought about the 5-2 last night for a blitz:

Ends drop into zones
NT & DTs essentially turn into an interior OL and block the OGs/OC and create 2 running lanes up the A gaps for the 2 Linebackers charging right down the middle!

Todd Bowles did a ton of double and even triple A gap pressure with Arizona last year using a hybrid defense. It was extremely effective.

Eagle Eye In The Sky: Cardinals Preview
Todd Bowles' creativity makes Arizona Cardinals defense the NFL's best | Audibles - SI.com

It's a good example of scheming that matches pressure and coverage, and which fits the scheme to the personnel.

 

[mayoclinic]

Looking at some of the edge rushers and sub-rushing candidates that the Pats have looked at, it's interesting that Dee Ford's defensive coordinator last year was Ellis Johnson, who was Jamie Collins' head coach the year before. Before that he was the defensive coordinator at South Carolina for 4 years where he coached Melvin Ingram, Devin Taylor, and even Jadeveon Clowney as a freshman. Johnson is best known for running a 4-2-5 base defense. He moved Collins from LB to the "bandit" role as a hybrid DE/OLB in 2012. Ford basically played that role for Auburn last year.

Breaking down Auburn's 4-2-5 defense: Defensive ends | AL.com
The Auburn Plainsman

I could see the Pats playing a hybrid 5-2-4/4-3 under/3-4 "base" mixed in with a 4-2-5/3-3-5 "sub" defense. Johnson designed his 4-2-5 variant specifically to combat no-huddle and spread offenses and to allow for flexible formation changes without changing personnel:

The basic goals of the 4-2-5 are simple: Eliminate the need for full-formation adjustments, limit substitutions and get players on the field who can handle speed on the edge.

Ellis Johnson outlines the philosophy behind Auburn's 4-2-5 defense | AL.com
4-2-5: Playing defense the Ellis Johnson way at Auburn - AuburnTigers.com - Official Athletics Site of the Auburn Tigers

It seems more and more clear that the LB/S hybrid - called the "star" or "spur" position in Johnson's scheme - is one of the keys to having the versatility to morph fluidly without changing personnel:

The hybrid Spur position and a good Will gives the coaching staff the ability to do a lot of things without substitution. Carolina can easily show a 4-3, 5-2, 4-2-1-4, 4-2-5, or 3-3-5 look utilizing base defenders. Such versatility allows for quick adjustments and gives the opposition (particularly the quarterback and/or play caller) a lot more to think about/scheme around. Further, this flexibility makes it more and more difficult for an offensive coaching staff to scheme around the defense's best players.

http://www.shakinthesouthland.com/2...a-brief-introduction-to-ellis-johnsons-4-2-5

Sound familiar?

 

[stelfans]

wow really nice find Mayo, I found this particularly intersting:

We need to start this conversation by discussing the roles and expectations out of Will, Mike, and Spur. Johnson requires both Will and Mike to be effective run stoppers. Will must provide pass rush support and South Carolina will bring him to pressure the opposition‘s quarterback. Johnson will trade mobility for size out of Mike.

We currently have 3 linebackers, can you say who plays where in that scheme?

 

[mayoclinic]

wow really nice find Mayo, I found this particularly intersting:

We currently have 3 linebackers, can you say who plays where in that scheme?

Johnson's "4-2-5" base is actually a "4-2-1-4" base, where there is a hybrid LB/S playing the "star" position. The other 2 LBs, the WILL and the MIKE, have to be able to play in run support and in zone coverage, or could move up on the line in a "5-1-1-4". Any combination of Mayo, Collins, Hightower and Ninkovich could probably play those roles. The "star" player could be a big safety who excels in run support (Seattle used Kam Chancellor in this role, and someone like Antone Exum could work very well; Pat Chung or Tavon Wilson would theoretically be good fits, but I'm just not convinced that either is angood enough player), or a LB/S hybrid. Ryan Shazier or Kevin Pierre-Louis would also be a terrific fits in this role. Jamie Collins has the athleticism to pull it off, but I'm not sure it would be the best use of his skill set.

The nice thing about this scheme is that you can run anything from a 5-2-4 to a 3-3-5 (or even a 3-2-6) with the same personnel:

With the same personnel the defense can play:

A base 4-2-1-4 defense, as outlined above
A more traditional 4-3 defense, with the spur essentially becoming a third linebacker
A 5-2-4 defense, with the weakside linebacker essentially lining up as a fifth defensive lineman and the spur essentially playing a linebacker position
A traditional 4-2-5 nickel defense, with the spur essentially playing the role of a traditional nickel back
A 5-1-5 defense, with the weakside linebacker playing a pass-rush role and the spur playing a traditional nickel back role.
A 3-3-5 defense, with one of the defensive ends dropping into short zone coverage (or being subbed outright) and the spur playing the role of a traditional nickel back
A traditional 3-4 defense, with one of the defensive ends playing a short zone (or being subbed outright) and the spur coming up to play a linebacker role
This is why, when running properly, this defense can create headaches for opposing offensive coordinators and quarterbacks.

South Carolina Game****s' Defense: Schemes and Alignments | Bleacher Report

Against more "power teams" you could use a true NT in the middle of a 5-2-4 base as described in the posts above.

Obviously, BB will have his own tweaks in mind; I'm not suggesting that the Pats are implementing Johnson's exact scheme. But a lot of the same hybrid concepts are used, and it gives some idea of the flexibility that can be achieved with the right personnel. The exact flavor is highly dependent on the skill set of the personnel.

 

[stelfans]

I think a combination of Mayo Hightower and Collins is perfect.
Bring in a few versatile guys that can complement that and we are ready to go.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think a combination of Mayo Hightower and Collins is perfect.
Bring in a few versatile guys that can complement that and we are ready to go.

A couple of thoughts:

1. There is no doubt in my mind that BB is moving in this general direction. As Reiss' defensive snap count from last year indicates, the Pats used a 4-2-5 as their basic sub package about 2/3 of the time. For their "base", they had a hybrid that switched between 4-3 over and under, 5-2 and 3-4 forms. BB also one-gapped more last year than he has previously done. I think that as the personnel allow BB and MP to get more confident in the scheme, they will be able to do more things and take the reigns off.

2. I don't think you can under-estimate the importance of matching personnel and scheme. There's just so much you can do with limited personnel. Todd Bowles was not very successful in as the DC in Philadelphia (when he took over briefly for Juan Cabrera), but was wildly successful in Arizona when he had the combination of back end (Patrick Peterson, Tyrann Mathieu) and front end (Calais Campbell, Darnell Dockett, Karlos Dansby, Daryl Washington) to get creative. We don't really know what Matt Patricia can do as a DC when he doesn't have his back to the wall due to either personnel deficiencies or injuries.

3. It's a small step from zone blitzing in a hybrid scheme to "psycho" or ameboid forms. Get enough athleticism on the front 7 and you can drop linemen back while blitzing in a fire zone, rotate players into different roles, or stand everyone but the NT up and bring pressure from all different directions. And having the horses on the back end to play man coverage and not get burned too often allows you to get more creative.

4. The advent of spread and up-tempo offenses at the college level has really accelerated the development of creative defensive schemes, and of the recruitment and development of defensive players who fit and can execute those schemes. Ellis Johnson and the 4-2-5 is just one example. Clancy Pendergrast (former Arizona Cardinals DC) tried a 5-2 hybrid at USC last year. Pendergrast was trying to deal with opposing offenses as different as Stanford's power based offense with an overloaded offensive line and Oregon's up-tempo spread offense with a mobile QB. Regardless of the success of individual coaches (and Johnson is a good example of a successful coach who failed miserably at Southern Mississippi his first year because he didn't have the personnel to run his schemes effectively), all of this should result in an accelerated learning curve and deeper pool of defensive prospects coming out of the college ranks who can fit into these kind of hybrid defensive schemes. Guys like Johnson are actively looking to recruit big DBs who can play a hybrid LB/S "star" role. Guys like Johnson and Pendergrast are looking for linemen who have the ability to play in a 5-2/3-4 or 4-3 under. College players are getting exposed to more and more sophisticated defensive concepts early on. I think that we'll see this translate into a more sustainable pool of talent coming out in subsequent drafts. It's hard to run a 2-gapping 3-4 if you don't have the right guys up front, but a hybrid can be tweaked to a much greater degree depending on the strengths of the personnel.

 

[mayoclinic]

More on the evolution of "hybrid" defensive players:

The Evolution of the Hybrid Defender «
YOU CAN CALL ME JACK ... OR BUCK ... OR - 09.23.13 - SI Vault

As the second article notes:

Schematic changes in the college game have forced an explosion of chameleons on both sides of the ball. Now if a team doesn't have at least one amorphous, broadly defined position, it's behind the curve.

The only way for a defense to counter this versatility is to develop hybrids as well. In the secondary, a relatively new position has developed out of necessity. The proliferation of up-tempo spread offenses has forced defensive coordinators to seek out human Swiss Army knives who can play three positions (cornerback, safety and outside linebacker).

The nice thing is, given the direction of the college game, there should be a natural pipeline of talented hybrid defenders. More "Swiss Army Knife" kind of weapons like Jamie Collins. Yum.

Maybe Ryan Shazier, Antone Exum or Kevin Pierre-Louis will be the answer to the hybrid LB/S position. If not, there are guys like Justin Garrett and former Georgia Bulldog Josh Harvey-Clemons (6'4" 212#, recently dismissed from the team for issues reminiscent of Tyrann Mathieu 2 years ago) or UCLA's Myles Jack (6'2" 220#) coming down the pipe. Regardless of any one single prospect, it seems that there is more than enough evolutionary pressure at the college level to accelerate the development of potential pro prospects with the athletic skill set and experience to play in complex hybrid schemes.