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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by PonyExpress, Mar 8, 2007.

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  1. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Here are some high profile names I left off my top 32, and reasons why I did so….

    Jamarcus Russell: nice guy, great arm, fata$$
    Jarvis Moss: just gave an interview on Sirius while STONED
    Merriweather: love his game, and I support the right of all citizens to bear arms. The fact Merriweather actually took the trouble to apply for and receive a LICENSE to carry a concealed weapon is to his credit. Still, combined with the stomping and the general inconsistency of all the Miami products this season (Olsen, K. Brown, B. Atkins, Moss etc.) I’d rather let someone else take the chance on him.
    Eric Wright: Without the alleged rape incident, Wright would be the #1 cb in the draft coming out of USC. Still, the drugs found in the apartment, and the legal entanglements, although dismissed, send up a red flag. Rather let someone else roll the dice.
    Aaron Ross: Heard some rumblings of off the field issues, some attitude concerns. At his combine interview he sounded a bit flakey, and tended to giggle uncontrollably. I’m sure it was just a case of nerves, definitely understandable...Hmmm….
    Jamaal Anderson: very raw, a junior who played left defensive end and has a questionable motor. Plays like a slower Mario Williams. Definitely draftable, but not till rd 2 for me… of course he’ll never make it that far.
    Gaines Adams: inconsistent motor. Motor is something you can’t teach and is a huge red flag for a top pick. I’d be very wary of him high in the draft. In fact, I’d let someone else take the risk.
    Amobi Okoye: He plays a finesse, speed game and goes to the ground quite a bit. I don’t think his whirling dervish act will be nearly as effective vs. NFL caliber O-line talent. Once they get some tape on him he’ll be a liability vs. the run until he gets stronger. Considering he’s only 19, I would be very hesitant to make the kid an instant multi-millionaire.
    Marshawn Lynch: Very talented, but tends to bruise easily. A good natured but very flakey kid, plus had a recent sexual assault incident (dismissed). The package is just a little too weird for me.
    Jarrett: well-known on USC campus as a slacker, has an attitude and is slower than molasses going uphill in the winter time. Let someone else figure him out.
    Dwayne Bowe: Will be a good solid possession receiver in the NFL, a la David Givens before the injury. Has a very thick build and I wonder how long he’ll be able to keep his quickness if he gains a few pounds, as 21 year olds naturally do after a season or two.
    Lawrence Timmons: raw, not a leader (Buster Davis was). Many report he lacks an understanding of the game, and his natural talent does not compensate enough to take a chance in rd 1 on so unfinished a prospect.
    Posluzny: Just didn’t see it in the games I watched this year, or at senior bowl practices, or in the Senior Bowl. Tested better than expected in agility drills, so maybe the knee is back to normal.
    Greg Olsen: see Merriweather: all the Miami prospects were inconsistent all year, probably due to poor coaching and the craziness surrounding the team. He may have tested like a 1st rdr, but he sure didn’t play like one. And he’s terrible at blocking. Awful. Maybe he’ll turn it around in the pros. Maybe not. Who wants to take that chance in rd 1?
    Levi Brown: looks very ordinary to me with heavy legs, and a lack of natural balance. The 5.3 he ran at the combine is indicative of that problem.
    Ted Ginn: After he hurt his foot celebrating a TD in the BCS title game, rumor has it he could have returned to action, but didn’t want to risk his draft stock by further injury or a poor performance. That’s a little shady IMO.
    Marcus McCauley: Pat Hill actually benched him down the stretch. If he's not good enough to play for a 4-9 Fresno St team as a senior, then he's not a 1st rd pick.


    . So here’s my personal top 32….

    * Hall of Fame potential
    $ Perennial Pro Bowl Potential
    + core player
    (current or former NFL player whose on-field style most reminds me of the prospect)


    1. Carriker* (R. Seymour): a combo of R. Seymour and Aaron Smith
    2. Calv. Johnson* (Terrell Owens): Has solid blocking ability and could become a Shannon Sharpe caliber TE in a few years when he hits 245-250 lbs.
    3. R. Nelson* (R. Lott): A lot of people will say Ed Reed, but he plays a much more physical game than Ed. Reggie can play CB or S, just like Ronnie.
    4. L. Landry* (Brian Dawkins): Will become the heart of an elite NFL defense. Makes the big plays, but will miss an occasional tackle just like BDawk.
    5. Quinn$ (Matt Hasselbeck): potential franchise Qb, but probably not a SB winning Qb.
    6. Branch$ (Pat Williams): At 6’6’’ 330 lbs, an avid “break dancer”, believe it or not.
    7. A. Spencer$ (Merriman): a relentless pass rusher whose intelligence and savvy make him more deadly than measurables suggest.
    8. L. Hall$ (R. Barber): a true technician, disciplined, without a conscience. A pro’s pro.
    9. D. Revis$ (Ty Law): has the ball skills, casual arrogance but lack of pure speed of another cb from Aliquippa PA.
    10. T. Smith$ (J. Theismann): short, mobile, ****y to the point of annoying, but a winner.
    11. A. Sears$ (W. Shields): a dominant guard provided his weight doesn’t balloon.
    12. J. Harrell$ (Ty Warren): can change the line of scrimmage with powerful base.
    13. J. Hill$ (J. Walker): smooth, mature, intelligent, ready to contribute immediately.
    14. Meachem$ (Eric Moulds): may take a little time, but has the power and speed of the young Moulds.
    15. B. Leonard$ (Craig James): Tough, durable, a good pass catcher and smart. Will become the first white rb since James to gain over 1000 yards.
    16. S. Rice$ (Al Toon): a tall, willowy possession receiver with the best hands in the draft.
    17. B. Siler$ (D. Brooks): junk yard dog Lber with great leadership qualities, field speed and toughness.
    18. J. Thomas$ (J. Gross): A solid, but not great LT prospect due to short arms.
    19. D. Harris$ (Lance Briggs): sneaky fast, durable, and heady.
    20. Jay Moore$ (J. Allen): relentless pass rusher with a great motor.
    21. J. Blalock$ (Chris Snee): Road grader Guard.
    22. Patrick Willis$ (T. Spikes): more straight line speed than quick, takes false steps, but a vicious hitter and team leader.
    23. J. Gattis+ (Kerry Rhodes): plays with reckless abandon, a head hunter with ball skills.
    24. L. Woodley+ (Jeremiah Trotter): strictly a 4-3 DE, or 2 down run stopping ILB. Plays with a great motor and shows an on-field love of violence.
    25. T. Hunt+ (W. McGahee): has the running ability of McGahee post injury, with a better team attitude.
    26. T. Shaw+ (T. Bruschi): super intangibles and versatility
    27. Char. Johnson+ (Sh. Ellis): natural brute strength.
    28. AJ Davis+ (Ellis Hobbs): quick, fast, good hands, will tackle.
    29. R. McDonald+ (D. Robertson): solid interior defender can change the LOS.
    30. J. Wade+ (Dunta Robinson): amazing athlete, diamond in the rough
    31. A. Peterson+ (C. Brown): good natural skills, lacks elite vision, durability concerns.
    32. Buster Davis+ (V. Wilfork’s mini-me): made of denser material than flesh and bone.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2007
  2. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    :eek:

    And I thought we were supposed to be interested in this kid. Did you hear this interview or was it reported on?
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I was wondering about that too - some people just don't sound good; saying he was stoned as a statement of fact seems like a bit of a leap.

    Pro Football Weekly's magazine questined Reggie Nelson's learning ability and said he plays in a simple offense, does anyone know anything about his smarts ?
  4. c_nice_37

    c_nice_37 Rookie

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    Ummm, giggle? Well now I'm sold on not picking this dude.
  5. c_nice_37

    c_nice_37 Rookie

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    I reckon you meant to say defense, and I don't see this guy as our answer at FS, especially as a 1st rounder. Can't comment on his noggin.
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    According to PFW, Nelson is slow mentally and might not be able to handle a complex defense.

    He's more of a do one thing type of player. This could drop him into the second round inspite of all of his great "measurables".

    EDIT: And now I see BF posted the same think way before I did.

    If Willis drops under number 15, then the Patriots should try to make a move on him.
  7. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Although I would shift the order around this list is the closest to my rankings and thoughts that I've seen. I agree on the players you left out too. I didn't hear the Moss interview but if it's true that he was stoned that's a shame.

    My biggest departures from your list.

    Okoye: Being only 19 I think he has enough skills to warrant a first round pick. However I think some team is going to draft him on potential in the top 15 and he's a project that probably won't pay dividends for a couple of years. Ty Warren this past season finally reached an elite level and his first year he was a backup and his second year very suspect. I think for a team who can afford to let him grow he's a great value pick later in the first round.

    Hall: His 40 time at the combine will pop him back into the top twenty but he didn't look good against top competition especially USC and OSU. I'd drop him down.

    Rice: He's been fragile through his career and isn't a great route runner and doesn't get off press coverage well. I think in the second round we could take a flyer on him but we already have CJ as a project.

    The rest are just order things such as Landry > Nelson.

    Nice post.
  8. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I like the fact that you're not afraid to go out of the box and put guys like Smith, Sears, Hill, Siler, Moore, Hunt, & Shaw in your top 32.

    I don't like the fact that you compare Nelson to perhaps the greatest DB to ever play simply because he can play two positions (one badly). Let's compare him to, say, Eugene Wilson or Michael Huff before we start dropping Ronnie Lott's name.

    Very interesting read. Thanks.
  9. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    So what's the real story on Reggie Nelson, is he smart as DryHeat suggests, or is he learning disabled, as PFW describes??? DryHeat, defend your characterization. I'm on pins and needles here.

    BTW-Dryheat, great work.
  10. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I think he's terribly overrated. Somewhat of a freestyler in the secondary, always going for the big play. He can't play with his back to the QB, which is why he's not a cornerback. Big Play potential, but I think he's too undisciplined to play in Foxboro. I'm sure some people have seen him play much more than me, but he reminds me of Roy Williams, without the big hit.

    I've never suggeted he was smart. I have heard that he has trouble with assignments, but I have no idea how accurate that is.
  11. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    tencharacters
  12. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    A few things stand out when watching Nelson play... His love of the game. He energizes his teammates with infectious enthusiasm, he loves the violence of the game and plays with no fear. He is comfortable on the field, like he was born to play football. He plays the game with street smarts, knowing how to bait the INT, when to make the big hit, when to play it safe. He is the definition of a playmaker in the secondary. Those who are calling him overrated, I really question how much they watched Florida play this season. Landry is great too, but let's not pretend he's perfect. He whiffed embarrasingly on several tackles vs. Arkansas, and drops ints from time to time. Both are elite talents, but Nelson's personality puts him ahead of Landry IMO. I never said Nelson was as good as Lott, though I believe Nelson has HOF potential. I was comparing Nelson's style of play to Lott. There is a distinction there, if you choose to find it.
  13. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    I love profootballweekly, and Nolan Nawrocki is a great read. Their opinions should and do hold more weight than an amateur's posting on message boards. But, that being said, they are the ones who loved Broderick Bunkley last year, thought Marcus McNeil was a 2 or 3rd rd talent, thought Mo Jones-Drew was a 4th rdr, Parys Haralson a 1st rdr, Gabe Watson a 1st rdr, and Ashton Youboty a 1st rdr, to name a few. They were sketchy on Demeco Ryans because he had "small hands", "straight calves" and wasn't good "in space". So take everything with a grain of salt.
  14. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    What you say is true. That is why I use multiple "guides" to see if there is a consensus on a player.

    the draft can be a big crap shoot. Right now I'm really high on Willis. Once I get some other opinions, i might not. But if all the opinions are the same, then this is an ILB prospect that comes around once every 5 years. The patriots should target him and move up if they can reasonably to get him.
  15. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Once every five years! Who said that? Just in the last two or three we've had guys like Vilma, DeMeco Ryans, Bradie James, AJ Hawk, Kam Wimbley, Ernie Sims, etc.

    I think he's a great, great player, but I'm not even sure he's the best linebacker in THIS draft.

    Must be the same "experts" who said Reggie Bush comes around once every 20 years.
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2007
  16. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I did:rocker:, not quoting anyone. And I'm not one to make 'dramatic' statements about players.

    And, yes he does have the potential to be better than all those guys that you listed. He can also play OLB. He can paly 3-4 or 4-3. I think this guy is special as a player, leader, and person. He's smart and has football smarts.

    In going through the LB's about half of the ILB's are not suited to play 3-4.

    The guy has played at a high level despite playing through numerous injuries and a crappy supporting cast. I don't have nearly all of the info that I will have by draft day and something could come up to change my thinking about him.
  17. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    The rest are just order things such as Landry > Nelson.

    This is an interesting debate. Landry impressed everyone with his speed and physique at the combine, and I also see him as a potential HOF player. But despite his elite size he plays a less physical game than Nelson, and his hands to intercept aren't as good. He also has a personailty that can be standoffish and rub some the wrong way (as Nolan Nawrocki reported in profootballweekly during the combine). Nelson, for those who accuse him of being dumb, is smart enough to play free safety in the NFL, and also dumb enough to play free safety in the NFL. If he were smarter he wouldn't do whatever his coach asked of him, risk life and limb on brutal hits, and throw his body around like it was the least valuable thing he possessed. That's the kind of dumb I want in my secondary. And he is a magnet for his teammates, who all love him.

    I watched a lot of LSU this year and Landry can flat out hit as can Nelson. Nelson has a couple of "Tebucky on Holt" type hits that everybody has seen and thus his status as a physical player gets elevated. Landry can deliver those as well. They both have good speed and can cover. The two things that put Landry above Nelson IMO are that he gets caught out of position much less often and he has superior size with all the speed. Landry could easily play SS, Nelson could not. In a scenario where Harrison and Sanders got hurt I can easily see the Pats moving Landry to SS and keeping Wilson at FS.

    Some would argue you could move Nelson to CB giving him positional flexibility too but as much as I like Nelson I just don't see that. In his drills the weakest part for him is back peddling which a CB has to do much more often than a safety. I think he could play nickel in a zone or CB in a cover two where he's playing off the ball but he couldn't play man.
  18. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Landry would have been a first rounder if he went into the draft last year.
  19. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    Ross has legit off field issues.

    http://texas.scout.com/2/603029.html

    We should avoid drafting anyone from the Texas secondary, IMO.
  20. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    My opinion of Nelson has changed considerably since the beginning of the last college football season, very high on him, to now, not very impressed by him. In my opion he is the 3rd best FS in this draft, behind Landry and Griffin. And I have serious concerns about how he would fit in our defense.
    That being said however, during the interview with BB, Pioli and him, BB probably just rolled film and asked Nelson what he's seeing and to describe the coverages. If Nelson is slow, then BB would have spotted it within a few minutes.

    And while Landry is considered the best FS in this draft, as I said earlier, I did not see a lot of big plays from Landry in the biggest games. That concerns me a bit.

    The one FS in this draft that I do like is Gattis of Wake Forest. As a junior 2 INT's returned for TDs. Game saving INT in the 4th Q last season. Decent skills and a decent ball hawk. With a year ot two in the Pats system to develop, he could be really special.
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