My 8/21 guess at the 53

[dhamz]

I agree that it's too early to give up on Jackson. But these are the Patriots, and while Jackson could probably have a great shot at a starting spot on most teams, he's buried on the Pats. They handed him the #3 job behind Moss and Welker in May, and on August 21, that spot is again occupied by Gaffney. I can certainly envision the powers that be deciding very simply that the time has come.

Is the statement he was handed the #3 spot based on his running with the first team offense in the offseason? Welker was hurt - both Gaffney and Jackson were playing with the first team offense. I don't think Gaffney starting is a sign he has regressed in anyone's eyes. It could be viewed as a sign he hasn't progressed since he hasn't beaten out Gaffney.

 

[pats1]

Is the statement he was handed the #3 spot based on his running with the first team offense in the offseason? Welker was hurt - both Gaffney and Jackson were playing with the first team offense. I don't think Gaffney starting is a sign he has regressed in anyone's eyes. It could be viewed as a sign he hasn't progressed since he hasn't beaten out Gaffney.

The consensus is Jackson was handed the spot that Gaffney occupied last season this offseason, and he failed to take advantage of it, and now Gaffney has "reclaimed" that spot.

 

[Pats726]

C'mon now. You dropping that Dan Stricker means I'm gonna have to drop a Scott McCready or Mark Bartosic.

(Or worse yet: Ryan Tujague.)

McCready was still in camps as of last year..I think.now a broadcaster with Skye sports..Bartosic sort of disappeared after NFLE Europe...maybe NFLE injury reserve?? Those 3 I mentioned were IRed with settlements...there are many obscure players...

 

[dhamz]

The consensus is Jackson was handed the spot that Gaffney occupied last season this offseason, and he failed to take advantage of it, and now Gaffney has "reclaimed" that spot.

I'm not sure how the consensus was reached. Gaffney started the Super Bowl, he played with the first team all offseason, and all through training camp. Jackson played with the 1s while Welker was hurt and returned to the reserves when he got healthy. That doesn't sound like one guy being handed the others job and him reclaiming it.

 

[italia44]

pats1,you're looking too much at players and not enough at positions.

1st off,i'm not a member of the Chad Jackson/Haters Club.I'm not impressed,so far,however the vitriol sent his way is bordering on the Brittany Spears level.

If Moss goes down,who is your wideout replacement?This is the WR with the most speed,who runs end arounds and WR screens.

Gaffney is not fast enough,Washington,
despite his ST prowess has not played or practiced 1 down at Moss's wideout pos.

Aiken or Slater?...not even going to go there.

There's no one who can, at the least,draw a double team except for CJ.The other team's aren't stupid.If they're going to dbl team Welker or Watson underneath,we must have someone who has the speed and the practice-time to run long routes.

Even the long-departed Bethel Johnson,would draw a safety on long pass routes.Speed kills in the NFL,you can't allow any WR with CJ's speed single covered.

Next,you've got 5 safetys and 4 CB's.....never going to happen.Safety's can play nickleback or cover slot receivers,but they are not CB's.You can't plug in Meriweather or Spann if Hobbs or Wheatley/Bryant go down.We must have 5 actual corner backs,not hybrid safeties.


CJ stays,5 CB's,4 Safetys,

Ventrone in,Aiken out

 

[AzPatsFan]

This is my first guess of the offseason - I think. Assuming Neal doesn't start the year on PUP (if he does, then his roster spot would be replaced by Welbourn):

QB (3): Brady, Gutierrez, O'Connell
RB/FB (5): Maroney, Faulk, Morris, Evans, Jordan
WR (6): Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Washington, Aiken, Slater
TE (2): Watson, Thomas
OT (4): Light, Kaczur, Britt, O'Callaghan
OG/C (6): Koppen, Mankins, Neal, Hochstein, Yates, Flynn
DL (6): Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Green, Wright, L. Smith
OLB (4): Vrabel, A. Thomas, Woods, Crable
ILB (5): Bruschi, Mayo, (Seau???), Guyton, Izzo, Alexander
CB (4): Hobbs, Bryant, Wheatley, Wilhite
S (5): Harrison, J. Sanders, Meriweather, Lynch, Spann
ST (3): Gostkowski, Hanson, Paxton

Obviously there are some tough roster decisions to make. Meriweather and Spann's versatility mean that 4 CBs can be kept, although I could see Spann off the roster (he has PS eligibility) in favor of a 3rd TE like Spach (or Seau). That also means Webster (who hasn't practiced or played in the month of August, IIRC) and Lew Sanders are out of jobs. But if Lynch's participation in nickel packages is any indication, there isn't any pressing need to carry 5 real CBs.

Hobson, I think, is gone. I think Seau comes back at some point though, which could push Guyton off the roster. Or someone else.

I tried like all hell to fit Ventrone on the roster as a 53rd guy who can play STs, WR, and DB, but he still has PS eligibility, so I think that's where he's headed. But if that's what actually happens, I think it's likely he gets a 53-style salary for his 3rd PS season, a la Yates in 2006. That's also possible with Spann.

I just don't see a spot on this roster for Chad Jackson. He got lucky by being on the PUP to start last season, but I don't think the Pats are going to carry 7 WRs (Moss, Welker, Gaffney, Stallworth, Washington, Jackson, Troy) like they did at the end of last season. I see both Aiken (assuming he is healthy) and Washington making the team, as well as Slater for his return game potential - but he's definitely on the bubble. Aiken and Washington could see time as 4th WRs, but generally they'll play on STs as most predict the Pats using more of a balanced offensive attack this season. On that note, Stephen Spach is someone who could sneak back onto the roster as a 3rd TE at some point, but initially I don't think he'll stick. I have Flynn on there as a 10th OL for now because of the OL injury situation, but once some semblance of health returns, they could go back to 9 OL.

LaMont Jordan, for now, I think makes it over Eckel. But as I said in that epic signing thread, he will have little to no role with the team as a 4th HB, and could fill the same role from his living room couch.

Six DLs is adequate at least to start the season. If the DL starts to wear down, then I'm sure Santonio will be on speed dial...or Kareem Brown if he's released by the Jets.

There's no way Cassel makes this team.

Disagree. Cassel is #2 and Gutierrez to IR.
Disagree. If Aiken makes it, Izzo doesn't.
Disagree. Yates is playing himself OFF the team, like Hobson.
I think they will find a way to give CJax another season. But he is 7-8th receiver behind Slater.
Wellbourne and Flynn probably make it, and Neal and Ross PUPP. Willhyte, Richardson, Spach, Connolly, Ventrone, Spann to PS and Peters makes it. O'Callaghan IR?

 

[pats1]

Disagree. Cassel is #2 and Gutierrez to IR.

What is with this "player X was out for a few training camp practices so he needs to go on IR" thing? Pretty soon half of the roster will be on IR if you want to look at it that way.

For historical perspective, check out who missed a lot of camp practices in the past few years, and who actually went on IR:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=88165

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=57845

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=39357

Disagree. If Aiken makes it, Izzo doesn't.

They didn't sign Aiken to be Izzo's replacement; both are excellent special teams players, and just like Chatham and Izzo (and Davis, and others) were around in those roles back then, Aiken and Izzo can be now. Believe me, they didn't sign Aiken thinking that they'd probably cut him in August - he was as much of a free agent signing as a Bryant or Washington (last year).

Disagree. Yates is playing himself OFF the team, like Hobson.

The last thing the Pats are gonna do now is cut an offensive lineman who has starting experience on their team. And I haven't seen what you've seen from Yates.

I think they will find a way to give CJax another season. But he is 7-8th receiver behind Slater.

Dead weight.

Wellbourne and Flynn probably make it, and Neal and Ross PUPP. Willhyte, Richardson, Spach, Connolly, Ventrone, Spann to PS and Peters makes it. O'Callaghan IR?

Richardson?!? He's missed most of training camp and is essentially the 7th CB. Please tell me where he fits in. And if Welbourn and Flynn make it, where do you find room for Connolly? That's an awfully scrub-ish bunch of names, and there's no way you can fit all of those on a 53-man roster unless you go out making ridiculous moves like IRing Gutierrez or O'Callaghan.

And since when has Christian Peters returned to the Patriots?

 

[lapatsfan]

They will keep more than 4 CBs and I don't think they'll keep 5 RBs.

 

[pats1]

McCready was still in camps as of last year..I think.now a broadcaster with Skye sports..Bartosic sort of disappeared after NFLE Europe...maybe NFLE injury reserve?? Those 3 I mentioned were IRed with settlements...there are many obscure players...

McCready got an injury settlement, actually, at some point in the 2003 season.

Just toyin' with you though.

 

[pats1]

They will keep more than 4 CBs and I don't think they'll keep 5 RBs.

I never was with the 5 RBs thing either (I just got the vibe that Jordan would be sticking around), and you can certainly consider Spann a 5th CB. But what exactly will a 5th or 6th CB do if your nickel back is Lynch and if Meriweather also sees a lot of time? They have the depth and versatility at safety now that they didn't in the Shawn Mayer/Dexter Reid/Guss Scott days.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

There's no way Gutierrez makes this team.

Fixed it for you.

 

[pats1]

I'm not sure how the consensus was reached. Gaffney started the Super Bowl, he played with the first team all offseason, and all through training camp. Jackson played with the 1s while Welker was hurt and returned to the reserves when he got healthy. That doesn't sound like one guy being handed the others job and him reclaiming it.

From those covering the team over the offseason, and even from Jackson himself, this offseason and camp was considered to be his best shot at making an impact, and the Pats were considered to have given him every opportunity to keep the #3 job. This isn't my theory, just simply what was reported over the summer.

 

[pats1]

Fixed it for you.

From what I've heard, the Pats like what they have in Gutierrez.

 

[lapatsfan]

I never was with the 5 RBs thing either (I just got the vibe that Jordan would be sticking around), and you can certainly consider Spann a 5th CB. But what exactly will a 5th or 6th CB do if your nickel back is Lynch and if Meriweather also sees a lot of time? They have the depth and versatility at safety now that they didn't in the Shawn Mayer/Dexter Reid/Guss Scott days.

I hear ya, they can also use Meriweather as a CB too, but I can't see having a "log jam" of 5 quality RBs.

 

[cstjohn17]

Barring injuries, PUPs and maybe the old quivel I am right there with you.

I lot of changes on the defensive side of the ball.

The question now is "that a championship roster?" I think the 2007 team was deeper, a lot will depend on how the young players emerge.

 

[wdkantro2]

Someone needs to explain the Sam Aiken obsession to me. The guy has barely practiced and would be an extra special teamer. How does he earn a roster spot so easily?
And as bad as Jackson has been, I don't see the team keeping only three WRs who had a catch last year in favor of three special teams WRs.
Other than that, I like your list. I agree with Guyton and Alexander making the team, but I also think Izzo is a possibility for surprise cut. I also agree with the choice to keep 5 RBs.

 

[Rob0729]

How is he going to prove himself? They're not going to keep running him out there like he's Clay Buchholz. It's a 16-game season, and Gaffney gives them the best chance to win.

The Pats do multiple WR sets during the season. He should get the year to prove himself.

With 31 teams out there looking for the next Devin Hester, I could see one of them taking a flyer on Slater looking to strike gold.

Any team that has him on the roster will need him to contribute at least on special teams. I have yet to see him do anything special on special teams and his returns have been average at best. I don't think anyone can look at what this guy has done so far and think he will be remotely like Devin Hester. He is Bam Childress Part II as of right now.

If he's healthy, then I think he's a core member of the ST unit.

Maybe. Maybe not. We got a lot of guys who are going to make this team through special teams play. There are only so many we can keep. If we are going to keep 5 RBs and extra o-linemen, a sixth WR may be a luxary we cannot afford. Aiken could be a victim of a numbers game.

He's buried on the depth chart and it will take a minor miracle for him to win over the coaching staff, IMO.

I wouldn't say that. One thing he has going for him if he improves his play tomorrow night is that he can play both inside and outside if they need him to. He is the only back up who can. That might be valuable. He could make enough of an improvement that the coaching staff might give him the benefit of the doubt that changing teams and positions slowed him down.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Someone needs to explain the Sam Aiken obsession to me. The guy has barely practiced and would be an extra special teamer. How does he earn a roster spot so easily?
And as bad as Jackson has been, I don't see the team keeping only three WRs who had a catch last year in favor of three special teams WRs.
Other than that, I like your list. I agree with Guyton and Alexander making the team, but I also think Izzo is a possibility for surprise cut. I also agree with the choice to keep 5 RBs.

He was the ST captain for the Bills for a few years, and nominated to the Probowl. The Bills lead the league in ST play, while he was there. He even caught a few balls in camp, as a WR.

BB gave him a two year contract. No one else got one. He is 27; Izzo is 34. Nuff said.

 

[TheComeback]

LaMont Jordan, for now, I think makes it over Eckel. But as I said in that epic signing thread, he will have little to no role with the team as a 4th HB, and could fill the same role from his living room couch.

You've got to be kidding. Lamont Jordan isn't just a quality depth player, he could legitimately start for many teams in this league. He was fifth in the league in rushing last year before he was injured, despite playing behind Oakland's offensive line. And not only that, but he's posted a career average of 4.1 yards a carry--a definite sign of talent at his position in this league.

Not only does he possess both power and speed, he can also catch the ball--you are talking about a running back who combines many of the best qualities of Maroney, Morris, and Faulk into one. He easily beats out Eckel, and even Morris, for the roster spot. There simply isn't a question about it.

Also, I think even as the "number 4" running back--a situation I doubt, since BB rarely uses Faulk as a runner--he would see plenty of playing time. We've seen two-runningback systems; why not a three-runningback system? Maroney has proven to be injury prone and Morris has never been a starting RB.

Other than that buffoonery, I generally agree with your post.

 

[wdkantro2]

He was the ST captain for the Bills for a few years, and nominated to the Probowl. The Bills lead the league in ST play, while he was there. He even caught a few balls in camp, as a WR.

BB gave him a two year contract. No one else got one. He is 27; Izzo is 34. Nuff said.

If he takes Izzo's spot, fine. But regardless of his ST prowess, I just don't see the team keeping 3 pass catchers and 3 special teamers at the WR spot. That's very, very dangerous for a team who likes to spread the field (not even mentioning the possibility of injury).