Must Read (fan written)

[MoLewisrocks]

I really enjoyed the poster's take on the SB.

Samuel, for the $$ he's making, and wants to make, should have been covering Plexiglass the whole game. Blame BB and DP for that decision, I guess.

And I've always thought that CBs playing 10 yards off the LOS, esp. in close games, is foolish. Drives are extended, and our geezers get tired, and sloppy.

I'm not as sold on James Sanders as our future SS. I see him as no more than a 3rd safety/tweener: not big enough for SS, not fast enough for FS.

Stomper Meriweather may have improved during the season, but his hands are atrocious, and they (as well as other things) caused us to lose a SB.

I agree that WILB is in need of a major upgrade. One doesn't have to look like Ted Johnson to be effective there. I still feel that Paul Posluszny would have been an excellent choice for that spot. Someone new, talented and fast needs to at least be part of a rotation there next season.

It does appear that I underestimated the loss of Rosie Colvin. I didn't realize that Vrabel's sack #s after Week 8 were so lousy. I hope that a restructuring of Colvin's contract can be possible.

And I completely agree that a hybrid 4-3/3-4 should be in place by next season. Adding a young, fast, talented WILB and DE should go a long way toward accomplishing that goal.

Samuel is uncomfortable on the right. Besides, Hobbs had Plax under control all night until that blitz... Asante struggled with Toomer, gave up a TD, missed his INT, and gave up some 3rd down completions on that first drive and even got run over once or twice.

It's the system, and it works when the personnel available can run it.

The coaches said Sanders is their most consistent player on D.

Asante had hands of stone for 3 years before he became an INT machine...

Tedy used to be fast. What he still is is smart. Smart matters in BB's system. That is why AD was brought in to learn the inside.

Colvin is occasionally inconsistent, but he's well worth what we pay him. His cap hit will drop when he's extended.

I really miss the chameleon D we used to switch up from 3-4 base to 4-3. Just haven't had the personnel to do it effectively since 2004.

 

[unoriginal]

I like the thread and appreciate the analysis, but I think he might be making a lot of assumptions. I do when I look at offensive line play, and that stuff is usually on the screen. Unlike the linked poster, I actually played DB, and long ago gave up evaluating it based on TV.

Either this guy has access to a better tape than what the network broadcast, or he may not be getting the whole picture. His general impressions are worthwhile, though.

 

[Fencer]

There certainly is a lot less physical CB play than there used to be. Dunno it that's more due to personnel at CB, more due to the rest of personnel, or more due to rule changes, but it is a scheme change.

And the safeties used to be closer to interchangeable before too.

So the defensive scheme has changed, and not necessarily in a way that makes it more effective. But again, that's surely due in part to rules and in part to personnel.

Interesting point about Vrabel's effectiveness being diminished in Colvin's absence. Can anybody comment on whether this was truly due in large part to double teams (or to scheme -- e.g., him sealing the outside at all costs against a mobile QB)?

And if it's true -- why? AD is a pretty good rusher too, and Seymour was presumably getting stronger at the same time.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

great find, thanks for posting. im sure this will not stop the debate about hobbs though. personally, i dont understand why everyone thinks assante on plaxico wouldve had a different result? hobbs did fine, and on the t.d., he was protecting the inside slant, not the fade. i blame the coverage scheme more than hobbs. if we're not gonna get the q.b. down, then dont blitz. i wouldve rathered seen the l.b.'s drop back into coverage on that play, instead of leaving hobbs alone, but give props to plexiglass for running a great route.

 

[mcsully]

david garrard was on ESPN radio a few weeks ago and spoke to what captain stone wrote for us. Its called ZERO COVERAGE. Corners play off the line waiting for the qb to make a hurried throw, due to the the pressure caused by the LB.. The corners can jump the route and prevent the completion..

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Just bumping this because it's one of the few actual intelligent football analysis threads deserving of attention on the board at the moment.

 

[captain stone]

Samuel is uncomfortable on the right. Besides, Hobbs had Plax under control all night until that blitz... Asante struggled with Toomer, gave up a TD, missed his INT, and gave up some 3rd down completions on that first drive and even got run over once or twice.
Samuel's open-field tackling, esp. on RBs, can be lazy/apprehensive/sloppy more often than it should be.

It's the system, and it works when the personnel available can run it.
I'm not blaming the DBs, really. It's the DC's call. I just don't like it all the time, esp. when the game is close.

The coaches said Sanders is their most consistent player on D.
Sanders has been consistently good. I just like my SSs bigger and my FSs faster. But he's the perfect nickle safety.

Asante had hands of stone for 3 years before he became an INT machine...
So maybe there's still hope. Remember, though, that Meriweather was a top-30 talent from The U, whereas Samuel was a relatively unknown late 4th-rounder from a smaller school.

Tedy used to be fast. What he still is is smart. Smart matters in BB's system. That is why AD was brought in to learn the inside.
Smart indeed matters; but I don't think that his smarts/experience/heart can compensate for his decreased physical limitations, esp. in a starting role. And I believe that Adalius was learning/playing the TJ/SILB position, anyway.

Colvin is occasionally inconsistent, but he's well worth what we pay him. His cap hit will drop when he's extended.
Agreed, and I hope he's extended, too.

I really miss the chameleon D we used to switch up from 3-4 base to 4-3. Just haven't had the personnel to do it effectively since 2004.
Willie Mac was probably the key ingredient in the D's ability to switch around. Neither Colvin, Thomas or Vrabel have individually what McG at his peak had: wingspan, strength at the POA and explosiveness. Maybe it's time to find a new Willie.

P.S.: I wouldn't sweat the overly-emotional posts too much. Just some folks venting their own way. After all, that was a very, very bitter pill to swallow. I choked on it myself when it went down.

 

[ayjackson]

Just a thought I had with regard to CBs not trading sides. I think it might give the defence information (where they send their receivers) about offensive plays it's going to run - maybe not a lot, but some.

eg. On the touchdown pass, Hobbs knows that the Pats love to blitz in the red zone. He sees PB being sent out to the #2 corner side and assumes the Giants are thinking slant to attack the blitz (Assante is very good at jumping slants). Obviously it didn't work, but likely because Hobbs was offbalance on PB's cut and couldn't react to it to get to the corner.

As an earlier poster said, Hobbs is better at defending the fade (bogus PI calls notwithstanding).

 

[QuinielaBox]

I guess in retrospect, the Patriots defense was vulnerable to certain matchups. I thought the defense did a good job overall in the SB and had some tough breaks on the last drive.

I think Assante Samuel is an overrated chump and ought to be replaced. I appreciated Hobbs effort overall.

Given the fact that the Patriots will have to rebuild the defense and reading about the opportunities in the FA and draft, it will be a tall order. So next year, the offense should go back to power running and keep the Defense off the field as much as possible.

 

[d.finn.patsfan.]

hey guys, first time poster but i read this board from time to time, and i was amazed to find my post up on here (the two articles at the front are mine). I've tried to sign up to patsfans.com eariler, but it's been hectic to sign up at this time (can't blame anyone for rejecting my original request, i was going to be called finn54 which sounds like a dolphins fan lol). Thank you for all the positive comments and i would be happy to answer any questions anyone has on these articles.

I like the thread and appreciate the analysis, but I think he might be making a lot of assumptions. I do when I look at offensive line play, and that stuff is usually on the screen. Unlike the linked poster, I actually played DB, and long ago gave up evaluating it based on TV.

Either this guy has access to a better tape than what the network broadcast, or he may not be getting the whole picture. His general impressions are worthwhile, though.

I don't have access to better tape but i didn't make my analysis by watching the games, either. I've been researching this topic for a couple months now (i.e. looking into the cover 3 and basically piecing all parts of the puzzle together), and i've had some help by two very knowledgable fans (both played DB and are experts on the secondary, ironically both are Steelers fans). I knew we played a cover 3, and then it was just a matter of fitting everything together. I agree it's very tedious and ineffective to try and analyze the secondary on TV footage, but you can picks some things up on blown coverages (seeing who is out of position etc). I've watched the superbowl 4 times now to analyze the game, and i stand by my original comments. BTW 'unoriginal' your o-line breakdowns absolutely rock. I love reading those and i always check for them .

just a couple of comments from some other posts on here;

- On not having a 'willie mac' type player; When we signed AD i honestly thought he was going to take that role. We really suffered the first year we played without willie, so when AD came i thought he was going to be our saviour on defense. As it turns out BB wanted him to play the Ted Johnson role (the SILB), which is fine by me because when AD was at ILB i thought he was excellent - not putting up gaudy stats but controlled the middle very well and kept Bruschi/Seau away from blockers to make plays. I don't think there is a McGinest type player out there this year. Vernon Gholston is a friggin' beast, but i just don't see him being a McGinest clone (more like Vrabel to me). Chris Long may be able to do it, but i have to question him in a standing up role and i wouldn't value him a top 10 pick if he was to move to OLB.

- On the CB's lining up on one side exclusively; i think that if they were to change sides as dictated by the WR it would be more of a man coverage defense. The secondary was more of a man defense when Ty Law and RAC were here, but it's switched under new personell and coaches. I'm trying to find out if Mangini made the switch to zone, but i doubt that because the Jets play a strict man-to-man. But it's worth saying Hobbs did a superb job on Burress for the game (minus the TD) and deserves some major props.

- James Sanders and Brandon Meriweather; i love these two. Meriweather's ball skills are the only thing that worry me, but that can be fixed with a nerf ball and some tips from Samuel (that is before Asante clears off for more money). James Sanders is a bit small, but he's an excellent wrap-up tackler and solid in run support. Looking at both safeties it's pretty obvious BB wants safeties that are excellent tacklers - because these two (and Rodney) are premium tacklers (Meriweather is one of the best tacklers i've seen in the secondary for NE in a while, never misses one). The future at S looks bright to say the least - both have the potential to be top 10 at their respective positions.

 

[captain stone]

Welcome to the forum, D-Finn. Your thoughts - and critiques - are always welcome. And so are any suggestions on improving the D.

 

[unoriginal]

i don't have access to better tape but i didn't make my analysis by watching the games, either. I've been researching this topic for a couple months now (i.e. looking into the cover 3 and basically piecing all parts of the puzzle together), and i've had some help by two very knowledgable fans (both played DB and are experts on the secondary, ironically both are Steelers fans). I knew we played a cover 3, and then it was just a matter of fitting everything together. I agree it's very tedious and ineffective to try and analyze the secondary on TV footage, but you can picks some things up on blown coverages (seeing who is out of position etc). I've watched the superbowl 4 times now to analyze the game, and i stand by my original comments.

Well, if you've been analyzing it that long and have been to the games (something I haven't had the pleasure of doing), you've probably got a firm grasp of what's going on out there.

I will say your general impressions match up pretty well with what I broke-down in the Eagles game. Course I hadn't been following the pass coverage, so I didn't know Cover 3 was our base and not something cooked up for that game.

One thing you may or may not know is that the Pats will often run a disguised Cover 2 out of the Cover 3/Cover 1 look you describe, rolling one corner underneath into the flats instead of dropping him into deep thirds. One poster here who is apparently a high school coach and plenty knowledable about this stuff (TripleOption) calls this a Cover 5 Trap, for (what I assume is) Cover 2+3 Trap, presumably because the safety and corner are making on-the-fly reads based on the routes being run, i.e. rolling up on outs and hitches.

Also, from what I've seen Hobbs is our best man coverage DB. Something for you to keep in mind as you're looking for the Pats to become more forward in their coverage schemes.

 

[d.finn.patsfan.]

i had heard of 'trap 5' cover scheme, but it's was sooooo hard to find i gave up. But yeah maybe i'll look into it in the offseason, it's one of Belichicks inventions/adaptions i believe.

I'm a pretty big fan of Hobbs. When we drafted him i talked to an Iowa State fan who gave me a detailed breakdown of him, and i thought he could become a decent CB, maybe someday a number 1. But when we switched to more zone coverage he was gambling a lot in coverage and that made me feel uneasy. I'm still hoping Hobbs can go back to the player i thought he was when he was blanketing the likes of Evans and Coles (last year in the first few weeks). I felt he has been made a scapegoat all year when teams are passing over our DB's. I look more towards the pass rush and Asante Samuel than Hobbs.