Welcome to PatsFans.com

Must Read (fan written)

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Remix 6, Feb 4, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I recently joined another site, FootballsFuture and this Patriot fan wrote a bit on our defense. One was a few weeks ago while he did some today about the SB. It really explains a lot

    this is the secondary breakdown from a few weeks ago, it explains our coverage scheme and such

  2. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    heres what he had to say about the SB
    its a great read imo written by a fan who took some time to explain it.

    thoughts?
  3. DefenseRules

    DefenseRules Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Messages:
    9,748
    Likes Received:
    15
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Thanks for posting that. Very imformative.
  4. wdkantro2

    wdkantro2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Good read. I don't love footballoutsiders statistics so I don't put a whole lot of stock in them, but it definitely reaffirms my thoughts that Asante is ridiculously overrated.
  5. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,145
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I generally like those Football Outsiders stats, but I think the cornerback ratings in our case are relatively meaningless.

    What is the point of rating Hobbs against #2 receivers if he so often covers the #1 receiver? That's a waste of time.
  6. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,772
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Very informative. I have confidence in our safety's...I am a big Meriweather fan and see Sanders as a full time player now. It's neither of thier (or Rodney's) fault that Hobbs got smoked on that TD.
  7. RIVA Pats Fan

    RIVA Pats Fan Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Can somebody explain why Hobbs was covering Plaxico?
  8. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    we dont swap our CBs often and i guess the plan for NY was to get Plaxico on Hobbs in that situation.
  9. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,690
    Likes Received:
    22
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #12 Jersey
    Great read and very well thought out. It doesn't hurt that it supports my side that Assante is over rated and played like crap the last quarter of the season and the playoff. Also that Hobbs is a good #2.
  10. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,772
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I wouldn't mind an explanation myself.
  11. fumbrunner

    fumbrunner Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Messages:
    1,975
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Laurinaitis is not entering the draft.
  12. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    bump
    since people are starting threads on LBs/CBs

    this can help you a lot
  13. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I really enjoyed the poster's take on the SB.

    Samuel, for the $$ he's making, and wants to make, should have been covering Plexiglass the whole game. Blame BB and DP for that decision, I guess.

    And I've always thought that CBs playing 10 yards off the LOS, esp. in close games, is foolish. Drives are extended, and our geezers get tired, and sloppy.

    I'm not as sold on James Sanders as our future SS. I see him as no more than a 3rd safety/tweener: not big enough for SS, not fast enough for FS.

    Stomper Meriweather may have improved during the season, but his hands are atrocious, and they (as well as other things) caused us to lose a SB.

    I agree that WILB is in need of a major upgrade. One doesn't have to look like Ted Johnson to be effective there. I still feel that Paul Posluszny would have been an excellent choice for that spot. Someone new, talented and fast needs to at least be part of a rotation there next season.

    It does appear that I underestimated the loss of Rosie Colvin. I didn't realize that Vrabel's sack #s after Week 8 were so lousy. I hope that a restructuring of Colvin's contract can be possible.

    And I completely agree that a hybrid 4-3/3-4 should be in place by next season. Adding a young, fast, talented WILB and DE should go a long way toward accomplishing that goal.
  14. karran_s

    karran_s Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I'm not a coach but I could have seen from the sidelines that a blitz play was not the right thing to call with only Hobbs covering PB.. At the very least, one more player should have covered him...

    Hobbs was playing with an injury and may have also affected his overall play in the SB...

    Asante should have made that crucial interception ... it would have earned him the right to be called a "great" CB.. Unfortunately, it was not to be.

    However, I do think our team will be better with him than without, if they can negotiate his demands to more reasonable levels. Of course, it all depends on how much other teams offer.
  15. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    hobbs is actually much much better covering the fade than asante
    of course hobbs was looking for the quick slant since he was hoping for a sack
    thing is, fine, hope for a sack but you have to play the fade and if you do see eli just chuck it up cuz we are in his face than make a break on it, but dont let the man behind you!
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2008
  16. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    speaking of nnamdi asoumgha (spelling?) he's a fa
  17. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2006
    Messages:
    2,159
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    "Another thing - BB's refusal to switch sides with the CB's is crazy. If you are going to leave Burress single covered, let Asante do it if he's actually any good. Asante never leaves the left side, something i whole heartedly disagree with. Teams will stick their number 1 WR on the other side, and cause a mismatch."


    This point has been made a few times before and I often find it unexplainable. It seems to easy for a team to switch the sides of their Wideouts to create a mismatch. How does the Patriots defend this? Does anyone else do it?

    Also, in the pre-game, Plexiglass had an interview and they had a poster of Hobbs and he stood behind it and yelled "just throw it to me, I have 7" on this dude. This is BEFORE the game. They knew they had the mismatch going in.
  18. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Ordway said yesterday he was sitting right in front of that play and Plax executed a great fake. Add to that Hobbs slipped (saw several slips over the course of the evening, it was humid with the roof shut and the field got slick) and add to that he was apparently playing with a sports hernia for several weeks that was so painful they opted to stop using him in the return game so he could continue to play CB. He's apparently scheduled to have it surgically repaired.
  19. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Schefter said tonight on NFLN that the Raiders are going to tag him.
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    This was an outstanding find. Hope some of the kneejerks who persist in thinking that playing that far off the receiver is an arbitrary choice the player makes read this...

    I remember Ty wanted to switch - he wanted to matchup with the #1. Most of the time Bill said no. In hindsight I wonder if he did that because he anticipated more interceptable throws to the #2 than the #1 might allow for. So the slightly better cover corner gets the #1 and makes the play to break up those passes (unless the zebras call it PI...) while the ballhawk sits on the #2.

    In 2006 Hobbs broke camp as the LCB. He had outperformed Asante in 2005 after replacing Starks around week 8. Hobbs then broke his scaphoid (like Tedy, as if it was contageous) and they switched him to RCB. At the time it was said that Asante isn't comfortable on the right. I figured maybe it was just a pecking order thing since the LCB is usually thought of as the #1. But I heard either Pees or Collier repeat the he's uncomfortable on the right side rationale again in interviews during Superbowl week.
  21. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Samuel is uncomfortable on the right. Besides, Hobbs had Plax under control all night until that blitz... Asante struggled with Toomer, gave up a TD, missed his INT, and gave up some 3rd down completions on that first drive and even got run over once or twice.

    It's the system, and it works when the personnel available can run it.

    The coaches said Sanders is their most consistent player on D.

    Asante had hands of stone for 3 years before he became an INT machine...

    Tedy used to be fast. What he still is is smart. Smart matters in BB's system. That is why AD was brought in to learn the inside.

    Colvin is occasionally inconsistent, but he's well worth what we pay him. His cap hit will drop when he's extended.

    I really miss the chameleon D we used to switch up from 3-4 base to 4-3. Just haven't had the personnel to do it effectively since 2004.
  22. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,166
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I like the thread and appreciate the analysis, but I think he might be making a lot of assumptions. I do when I look at offensive line play, and that stuff is usually on the screen. Unlike the linked poster, I actually played DB, and long ago gave up evaluating it based on TV.

    Either this guy has access to a better tape than what the network broadcast, or he may not be getting the whole picture. His general impressions are worthwhile, though.
  23. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    7,608
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    There certainly is a lot less physical CB play than there used to be. Dunno it that's more due to personnel at CB, more due to the rest of personnel, or more due to rule changes, but it is a scheme change.

    And the safeties used to be closer to interchangeable before too.

    So the defensive scheme has changed, and not necessarily in a way that makes it more effective. But again, that's surely due in part to rules and in part to personnel.

    Interesting point about Vrabel's effectiveness being diminished in Colvin's absence. Can anybody comment on whether this was truly due in large part to double teams (or to scheme -- e.g., him sealing the outside at all costs against a mobile QB)?

    And if it's true -- why? AD is a pretty good rusher too, and Seymour was presumably getting stronger at the same time.
  24. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    great find, thanks for posting. im sure this will not stop the debate about hobbs though. personally, i dont understand why everyone thinks assante on plaxico wouldve had a different result? hobbs did fine, and on the t.d., he was protecting the inside slant, not the fade. i blame the coverage scheme more than hobbs. if we're not gonna get the q.b. down, then dont blitz. :rolleyes: i wouldve rathered seen the l.b.'s drop back into coverage on that play, instead of leaving hobbs alone, but give props to plexiglass for running a great route.
  25. mcsully

    mcsully Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,040
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    david garrard was on ESPN radio a few weeks ago and spoke to what captain stone wrote for us. Its called ZERO COVERAGE. Corners play off the line waiting for the qb to make a hurried throw, due to the the pressure caused by the LB.. The corners can jump the route and prevent the completion..
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2008
  26. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Just bumping this because it's one of the few actual intelligent football analysis threads deserving of attention on the board at the moment.
  27. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    P.S.: I wouldn't sweat the overly-emotional posts too much. Just some folks venting their own way. After all, that was a very, very bitter pill to swallow. I choked on it myself when it went down.
  28. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Just a thought I had with regard to CBs not trading sides. I think it might give the defence information (where they send their receivers) about offensive plays it's going to run - maybe not a lot, but some.

    eg. On the touchdown pass, Hobbs knows that the Pats love to blitz in the red zone. He sees PB being sent out to the #2 corner side and assumes the Giants are thinking slant to attack the blitz (Assante is very good at jumping slants). Obviously it didn't work, but likely because Hobbs was offbalance on PB's cut and couldn't react to it to get to the corner.

    As an earlier poster said, Hobbs is better at defending the fade (bogus PI calls notwithstanding).
  29. QuinielaBox

    QuinielaBox Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I guess in retrospect, the Patriots defense was vulnerable to certain matchups. I thought the defense did a good job overall in the SB and had some tough breaks on the last drive.

    I think Assante Samuel is an overrated chump and ought to be replaced. I appreciated Hobbs effort overall.

    Given the fact that the Patriots will have to rebuild the defense and reading about the opportunities in the FA and draft, it will be a tall order. So next year, the offense should go back to power running and keep the Defense off the field as much as possible.
  30. d.finn.patsfan.

    d.finn.patsfan. Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    hey guys, first time poster but i read this board from time to time, and i was amazed to find my post up on here (the two articles at the front are mine). I've tried to sign up to patsfans.com eariler, but it's been hectic to sign up at this time (can't blame anyone for rejecting my original request, i was going to be called finn54 which sounds like a dolphins fan lol). Thank you for all the positive comments and i would be happy to answer any questions anyone has on these articles.


    I don't have access to better tape but i didn't make my analysis by watching the games, either. I've been researching this topic for a couple months now (i.e. looking into the cover 3 and basically piecing all parts of the puzzle together), and i've had some help by two very knowledgable fans (both played DB and are experts on the secondary, ironically both are Steelers fans). I knew we played a cover 3, and then it was just a matter of fitting everything together. I agree it's very tedious and ineffective to try and analyze the secondary on TV footage, but you can picks some things up on blown coverages (seeing who is out of position etc). I've watched the superbowl 4 times now to analyze the game, and i stand by my original comments. BTW 'unoriginal' your o-line breakdowns absolutely rock. I love reading those and i always check for them;) .

    just a couple of comments from some other posts on here;

    - On not having a 'willie mac' type player; When we signed AD i honestly thought he was going to take that role. We really suffered the first year we played without willie, so when AD came i thought he was going to be our saviour on defense. As it turns out BB wanted him to play the Ted Johnson role (the SILB), which is fine by me because when AD was at ILB i thought he was excellent - not putting up gaudy stats but controlled the middle very well and kept Bruschi/Seau away from blockers to make plays. I don't think there is a McGinest type player out there this year. Vernon Gholston is a friggin' beast, but i just don't see him being a McGinest clone (more like Vrabel to me). Chris Long may be able to do it, but i have to question him in a standing up role and i wouldn't value him a top 10 pick if he was to move to OLB.

    - On the CB's lining up on one side exclusively; i think that if they were to change sides as dictated by the WR it would be more of a man coverage defense. The secondary was more of a man defense when Ty Law and RAC were here, but it's switched under new personell and coaches. I'm trying to find out if Mangini made the switch to zone, but i doubt that because the Jets play a strict man-to-man. But it's worth saying Hobbs did a superb job on Burress for the game (minus the TD) and deserves some major props.

    - James Sanders and Brandon Meriweather; i love these two. Meriweather's ball skills are the only thing that worry me, but that can be fixed with a nerf ball and some tips from Samuel :D (that is before Asante clears off for more money). James Sanders is a bit small, but he's an excellent wrap-up tackler and solid in run support. Looking at both safeties it's pretty obvious BB wants safeties that are excellent tacklers - because these two (and Rodney) are premium tacklers (Meriweather is one of the best tacklers i've seen in the secondary for NE in a while, never misses one). The future at S looks bright to say the least - both have the potential to be top 10 at their respective positions.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page