Moss's Chase of the Checkbook indicates he's reverted to "Raider Randy"

[otis p. driftwood]

Can I listen to Adam Schefter of the NFL Network say the same thing though and start to get worried? He is afterall the mouthpiece for the league. Just a thought!

Is he saying it or is he saying that Clayton is saying it?

 

[wiggins!]

Is he saying it or is he saying that Clayton is saying it?

He's saying it on his own as well. Here's an exerpt from his story yesterday:

"Those who know Moss say he is inching closer to the point of frustration at the lack of progress he has made for a new deal with the Patriots. The longer the Patriots wait to sign him, the more they invite other teams to begin recruiting Moss.

Moss is, at the very least, now willing to take free-agent visits and listen to other offers, according to sources. The contract the Patriots have proposed is not enough for Moss to sign now. The record-setting wide receiver believes he gave New England a discount last year and is unwilling to do the same this year."

The story is on the front page of NFL.com

 

[flasox27]

The story is a couple days old and hardly qualifies as news.

 

[BionicPatriot]

I believe he probably is getting frustrated, but it's a plus we havent heard him contacting other teams or teams contacting him. I'm holding hope...They gotta be talking at least.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Joe, Joe, Joe....over 8,000 posts and you come up with this? When are fans like you going to learn to wait until you see the verdict before you make assumptions?

I mean what the hell is this, a guessing game? We don't know what we don't know and you don't know any more than anyone else. So every single little "Randy Moss" post & thread is just a guess or a theory, right? Can someone please, please tell us why people have to come up with theories? It's just so stupid and time wasting.

The bottom line is I don't know, Joesixpack doesn't know and no else on this board knows what's up with signing Randy Moss. Sometimes I get the feeling people want to take a stab in the dark with their theories in hope they look "wicked smart" if their guess is right.

That's really sad

I'm amazed at some of the reactions on this board. Do people have short memories and no ability to engage in logical reasoning?

Fact: Moss previously stated on the record that he wasn't looking to break the bank and only wanted to play for the Patriots.

Fact: Moss has now declined whatever offer the Patriots has made and is seeking other offers from other teams.

Fact: Since no one would question the Patriots commitment to winning, the issue causing Moss to look elsewhere is money.

Am I or anyone else privvy to the negotiations or what Moss is thinking? Of course not.

Are people really such idiots as to not recognize the distinction between that and drawing logical conclusions based upon the facts illustrated above? I get the feeling some of our members here were also on the OJ Simpson jury.

 

[PatsNuts]

My whole thing is why should he have to take a discount to play for the pats. He allready took a discount last season how come the pats don't want to pay anyone.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I'd bet that Moss is not trying to break the bank ...
He's probably looking for years with a decent guarantee not incentive laden.
Can't really blame him if that is true ... it's a business.

We just cut Colvin because of his injuries. I don't think it's fair to label
players greedy and then not care as much when they are cut.

As long as we spend within $5 million of the cap I know we
will still be among the 5-8 best teams in the league, so I really
could care less who sign and who doesn't...we will be strong somewhere
and we will be weaker somewhere else.

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

I'd bet that Moss is not trying to break the bank ...
He's probably looking for years with a decent guarantee not incentive laden.
Can't really blame him if that is true ... it's a business.

We just cut Colvin because of his injuries. I don't think it's fair to label
players greedy and then not care as much when they are cut.

As long as we spend within $5 million of the cap I know we
will still be among the 5-8 best teams in the league, so I really
could care less who sign and who doesn't...we will be strong somewhere
and we will be weaker somewhere else.

I hope for this as best case scenario as well, but the fact that it isn't done yet doesn't make me any more comfortable. But at the end of the day, I still think the organization does the right thing, I hope HOPE they don't let him go and leave money on the table, but I also hope they don't drastically overpay or overcommit. Fingers crossed but I also don't think its the end of the world either way.

 

[Brick]

I'm amazed at some of the reactions on this board. Do people have short memories and no ability to engage in logical reasoning?

Fact: Moss previously stated on the record that he wasn't looking to break the bank and only wanted to play for the Patriots.

Fact: Moss has now declined whatever offer the Patriots has made and is seeking other offers from other teams.

Fact: Since no one would question the Patriots commitment to winning, the issue causing Moss to look elsewhere is money.

Am I or anyone else privvy to the negotiations or what Moss is thinking? Of course not.

Are people really such idiots as to not recognize the distinction between that and drawing logical conclusions based upon the facts illustrated above? I get the feeling some of our members here were also on the OJ Simpson jury.

Joe, please don't use logic and objective analysis to support your opinions, it frightens the Pom Pom wavers.

 

[ATippett56]

This isnt Deion Branch or David Givens, thats the problem. There is a much bigger risk and cost to this guy leaving, so maybe the line should not be drawn as hard. And the Pats have shown with top level talent, like Brady and Seymour, that there is more willingness to be flexible, so they do understand this.

However, the New England Patriots organization undoubtedly has a budget and Randy Moss will need to fit within that budget for the New England Patriots to remain under the salary cap. I sincerely doubt that the New England Patriot will not participate in the free agent market between now and the 2008 NFL Draft.

 

[otis p. driftwood]

He's saying it on his own as well. Here's an exerpt from his story yesterday:

"Those who know Moss say he is inching closer to the point of frustration at the lack of progress he has made for a new deal with the Patriots. The longer the Patriots wait to sign him, the more they invite other teams to begin recruiting Moss.

Moss is, at the very least, now willing to take free-agent visits and listen to other offers, according to sources. The contract the Patriots have proposed is not enough for Moss to sign now. The record-setting wide receiver believes he gave New England a discount last year and is unwilling to do the same this year."

The story is on the front page of NFL.com

Those are Cryptkeeper's sources. In other words, Shefter is reporting what he's hearing.

 

[Lampshade]

I'm amazed at some of the reactions on this board. Do people have short memories and no ability to engage in logical reasoning?

Fact: Moss previously stated on the record that he wasn't looking to break the bank and only wanted to play for the Patriots.

Fact: Moss has now declined whatever offer the Patriots has made and is seeking other offers from other teams.

Fact: Since no one would question the Patriots commitment to winning, the issue causing Moss to look elsewhere is money.

Am I or anyone else privvy to the negotiations or what Moss is thinking? Of course not.

Are people really such idiots as to not recognize the distinction between that and drawing logical conclusions based upon the facts illustrated above? I get the feeling some of our members here were also on the OJ Simpson jury.

If you're not privvy to negotiations how do you know "fact" #2 or "fact" # 3 are facts at all?

How about:
Speculation: Pats and Moss have the basics of a deal down, and are now working on closing the differences of opinion over what percentage, if any, should be incentivized.
Speculation: Pats and Moss are close to a deal but have agreed to put it on the backburner for a few days as other contracts/negotiations are more pressing at the beginning of FA.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

The fact that with nearly a month to negotiate and no deal with the Patriots indicates that his statement that THIS is where he wants to be and that money is not the most important thing was BS... i.e. that money IS the most important thing.

I'm curious as to how you'd resolve the conflict within your assertion above with that of Moss having taken a large pay cut to sign with the Pats in the first place. Even for a billionaire, $3 million or whatever the pay cut actually totaled in the end, is still a large amount of money to turn down.

It really makes little sense to me that a guy would take such a large pay cut for the sake of winning, then would one offseason morning wake up and redefine the course of his professional career whereby he comes to the conclusion the money is the primary objective of his professional legacy at this stage in his life.

Now, I'm not suggesting money doesn't matter in all this. Of course it does. However, given what little we know about the actual contract negotiations and where the two parties stand, I'm not so sure it's fair to imply that Moss had lied of his true intentions and that he's only concerned about the dollar. He took a big pay cut to play for the Pats and if one's trying to be fair and objective, I don't think that should be neglected.

 

[JoeSixPat]

If you're not privvy to negotiations how do you know "fact" #2 or "fact" # 3 are facts at all?

How about:
Speculation: Pats and Moss have the basics of a deal down, and are now working on closing the differences of opinion over what percentage, if any, should be incentivized.
Speculation: Pats and Moss are close to a deal but have agreed to put it on the backburner for a few days as other contracts/negotiations are more pressing at the beginning of FA.

Let me get this straight. I'm being challenged on whether or not the Patriots even made Moss an offer?

Of course they made Moss an offer! I can't believe I'm even having to illustrate the logical argument behind that. And the fact that he is not yet signed says that he has, for the time being, declined that offer.

And I'M not the one saying that Moss SHOULD take a discount. MOSS IS THE ONE WHO SAID THAT!

The issue here is that Moss has now changed his tune about #1 Money not being an issue and #2 Only wanting to play for the Patriot.

Surely no one is challenging the fact that Moss said those things just a few short weeks ago.

And surely no one assumes that Moss is now sitting on his hands, with his agent not exploring options with other teams.

This is just amazing to me. I'm all for innocent until proven guilty but that shouldn't be a substitute for THINKING people!

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm curious as to how you'd resolve the conflict within your assertion above with that of Moss having taken a large pay cut to sign with the Pats in the first place. Even for a billionaire, $3 million or whatever the pay cut actually totaled in the end, is still a large amount of money to turn down.

It really makes little sense to me that a guy would take such a large pay cut for the sake of winning, then would one offseason morning wake up and redefine the course of his professional career whereby he comes to the conclusion the money is the primary objective of his professional legacy at this stage in his life.

Now, I'm not suggesting money doesn't matter in all this. Of course it does. However, given what little we know about the actual contract negotiations and where the two parties stand, I'm not so sure it's fair to imply that Moss had lied of his true intentions and that he's only concerned about the dollar. He took a big pay cut to play for the Pats and if one's trying to be fair and objective, I don't think that should be neglected.

Actually there is no conflict

#1 Moss didn't take a pay cut. The Raiders were not going to pay him $10 million to continue playing the way he was last year. He was going to take a pay cut from them or be cut outright.

Moss needed a place to "prove" himself to gain his next big contract and the Patriots were the perfect place. No team, including the Patriots were going to pay him $10 million either - and certainly not $10 mil a year for a long term contract. It was a win win situation for Moss and the Patriots in that Moss needed to show he could be a team player - and play well... but the concern was - and is all the more today, that his words and actions were only calculated moves to get the most lucrative contract possible following the end of his one year deal.

Now a $3 million contract without a doubt is well below market even for a guy with Randy's poor attitude/poor performance baggage. But indeed Moss needed to "prove" his value for his next contract and the Pats were big beneficiaries of that. And I hope in the future other players will seek to "prove" their value by playing for the Patriots on one year, affordable contracts and have big years.

This, as I've illustrated in many threads, is why BB could NOT have franchised Moss - he would have been hurting the Patriots chances of seeing others come to this team.

Moss for his part stated quite clearly that he #1 wasn't looking to break the bank in coming back to the Patriots under a long term contract (i.e. he's not expecting to be the highest paid WR in the league) and #2 that he only wanted to play for the Patriots.

The Patriots made him an offer - this, common sense and logic tells us is a fact - and apparently that offer was not to his liking.

Now, as common sense and logic tells us, with Moss unsigned, and numerous reports confirming, he is looking to other teams.

So Moss's has basically turned his back on his statements of a few weeks ago - looking to find the highest pay day possible presumably in connection with a contender OTHER than the Patriots

...and this, as is my point in this thread, should be a concern to any and all GMs, including our own, as chasing the checkbook is what led him to the Raiders in the first place, and we all know about his performance there.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Actually there is no conflict

#1 Moss didn't take a pay cut. The Raiders were not going to pay him $10 million to continue playing the way he was last year. He was going to take a pay cut from them or be cut outright.

My understanding of his Raiders contract was that he had $11 million in guaranteed money left over two years in addition to his annual base salaries. Whether they cut him or not, the guarantee money is something he would have collected and which opted out of with the Patriots. So it seems to me that a conflict indeed does exist in what you've stated and the pay cut that Moss has taken to come to this team.

Now a $3 million contract without a doubt is well below market even for a guy with Randy's poor attitude/poor performance baggage. But indeed Moss needed to "prove" his value for his next contract and the Pats were big beneficiaries of that. And I hope in the future other players will seek to "prove" their value by playing for the Patriots on one year, affordable contracts and have big years.

I don't think Moss total salary for this past season was that low. When performance incentives were met and when the bonuses were rewarded based much on the performance clauses, I actually think it turned out be much more than the $3M that's been reported. Regardless, even with a much higher total salary, he, as you've suggested turned out be a bargain and in fact ripped up sure guarantee salaries from his former contract.

Further, given some of the things stated above, I cannot help but feel that you're reverting to anti-Moss myths. I really think his play this year with the Pats disproves much of the myths that had been and still continues to be attached to him. Said this, I'm hardly suggesting he doesn't have issues nor am I suggesting he's the second coming of Troy Brown in the "head on straight" department, but I do think much of the criticism attached to Moss has been in total fairness. Albeit to a much lesser extent, his so called issues have taken a life of their own and we've seen such hysteria take on a life of their own with little regard to facts and accuracy during this whole "spygate" lynch-mob turmoil.

Now, as common sense and logic tells us, with Moss unsigned, and numerous reports confirming, he is looking to other teams.

No offense, but common sense tells me to stay away from unsubstantiated reporting based on lone, anonymous sources that are then picked up by other outlets until such reportage are indeed substantiated and secured as facts rather than opinions masked as facts.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No offense, but common sense tells me to stay away from unsubstantiated reporting based on lone, anonymous sources that are then picked up by other outlets until such reportage are indeed substantiated and secured as facts rather than opinions masked as facts.

Actually the only reports confirmed to date are that he hasn't visited or scheduled visits to any teams. If he signs here tomorrow for a contract with terms they are satisfied with, do you think Joe will start a thread to apologize for what then obviously would be incorrect assumptions he felt compelled to share in print here... No, I don't think so either.

I just don't get what it is about fans in NE that they have to either freak out or get out in front of character assinations and player bashing when players leave or are even rumored to be leaving...

It must still be some lingering effect of the 86 year cursed mentality with that other team. We just cannot act like we've been there, let alone more than any fans in any city in a decades.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Actually the only reports confirmed to date are that he hasn't visited or scheduled visits to any teams. If he signs here tomorrow for a contract with terms they are satisfied with, do you think Joe will start a thread to apologize for what then obviously would be incorrect assumptions he felt compelled to share in print here... No, I don't think so either.

I just don't get what it is about fans in NE that they have to either freak out or get out in front of character assinations and player bashing when players leave or are even rumored to be leaving...

I'm assuming you have proof that he and his agent had no contact with any other team, otherwise you'd be quite the hipocrit, making an assumption but stating it as a fact.

I'm not sure who you think is "freaking out" either. I've just been making a purely reasonable statement that if Moss turned his back on the Patriots and decided to seek the highest salary on the market when his previous statements said otherwise, he's not the type of guy we'd want here in the first place.

I've never said I didn't like Moss - simply pointing out that what he said, and his actions of shopping himself to other teams, are in conflict.

Not only wouldn't I apologize, if it is substantiated that Moss or his agent in fact did explore deals with teams to test the market for the highest contract, I'll actually be quite concerned.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm assuming you have proof that he and his agent had no contact with any other team, otherwise you'd be quite the hipocrit, making an assumption but stating it as a fact.

I'm not sure who you think is "freaking out" either. I've just been making a purely reasonable statement that if Moss turned his back on the Patriots and decided to seek the highest salary on the market when his previous statements said otherwise, he's not the type of guy we'd want here in the first place.

I've never said I didn't like Moss - simply pointing out that what he said, and his actions of shopping himself to other teams, are in conflict.

Not only wouldn't I apologize, if it is substantiated that Moss or his agent in fact did explore deals with teams to test the market for the highest contract, I'll actually be quite concerned.

There was no IF in your first post. That is the problem with it. You made assumptions based on nothing more than mediot musings, and trashed a player based on (apparently) he duped or disappointed you. None of those same mediots have been able to confirm Randy being in contact with anyone. And he and his agent haven't talked to anyone. I'm sure his agent has talked to other teams - that is how you gauge your market as a FA. The Pat's didn't have a problem with this, per Mike Reiss earlier today. They didn't franchise him. He didn't promise to not gauge his market, he just said he wouldn't look for a break the bank deal from the Patriots, though he would from others.

If it turns out that Randy was lyin' and he wants every nickle he can get in this deal and he leaves here for that reason, then there may be some validity to your opinion. But absent that actually happening, there isn't.

 

[PatriotsReign]

I'm amazed at some of the reactions on this board. Do people have short memories and no ability to engage in logical reasoning?

Fact: Moss previously stated on the record that he wasn't looking to break the bank and only wanted to play for the Patriots.

Fact: Moss has now declined whatever offer the Patriots has made and is seeking other offers from other teams.

Fact: Since no one would question the Patriots commitment to winning, the issue causing Moss to look elsewhere is money.

Am I or anyone else privvy to the negotiations or what Moss is thinking? Of course not.

Are people really such idiots as to not recognize the distinction between that and drawing logical conclusions based upon the facts illustrated above? I get the feeling some of our members here were also on the OJ Simpson jury.

You can't react to every story you read. My point is...wait until it's over and then make your decision. Until then, what's the use?

I'll give you my "gut" analysis...

THE PATRIOTS WILL SIGN RANDY MOSS

I'm not worried a tad buddy...perfect karma from where I sit.