Moss trade to Dallas?

[emoney_33]

Depends on how you are defining top 3 wr. If I had to pick receivers based on a 5 year run, then no Moss doesn't make my top 3. This is going to be his last year and won't be a likely candidate to be franchised given his unpredictability when displeased. You don't move him if they are confident they have a legitimate chance at a superbowl next year. If you think your rebuilt defense still needs another year, then get value for the guy now rather than letting him walk for nothing at year end. Will open up money to, and you can work a deal for a Marshall or Boldin who I would rather have at this stage than Moss.

Moss' salary is not preventing ANY other contract in 2010. You don't free up that much money anyway by getting rid of him (~$6M). If there was even a remotely acceptable replacement for Moss on the roster you'd have a point for possible long-term benefit for a younger player. Even then trading him for Barber makes little to no sense to me. You handicap your WR corps to get a running back?

And I still think Moss gets a 2 year extension here.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If we lose Moss I wish they'd re-sign Watson and convert him into a WR.

they actually need to convert watson to cornerback since he's good at knocking passes down.

 

[PatsBoy12]

You can make a case that Guyton isn't a hammer on run defense but I still think the kid has plenty of upside and will continue to improve. For his second year pro and his first as a full-time starter, he held his own. I want him on this team.

With that said, I do think we need an ILB that can provide some "stoutness" vs the run on a situational basis.

Not to hijack the thread, but I agree. I'm very excited about Guyton and his continued improvement (hopefully).

 

[RobertWeathers]

Moss' salary is not preventing ANY other contract in 2010. .

We assume that to be the case, but don't know that for fact. Quite frankly, $6.4m for a top-3 WR is a steal IMO. As long as RM doesn't pull an AD or turns into Manny Ramirez or his negotiating posture is Seymour/Asante-like, we should keep him.

You don't free up that much money anyway by getting rid of him (~$6M). .

$6m is a good chunk of change. Why do you think it is not? Very good players will be had for $6m in this offseason.

QUOTE=emoney_33;1738450]If there was even a remotely acceptable replacement for Moss on the roster you'd have a point for possible long-term benefit for a younger player. .

[/QUOTE]

Thats the problem. There isn't one. Especially w/ WW on the shelf. If there was, I'd be much more comfortable w/ a Moss-for-Barber AND X as the conditions of the trade.

QUOTE=emoney_33;1738450]Even then trading him for Barber makes little to no sense to me. You handicap your WR corps to get a running back? .

[/QUOTE]

I would support a RM for Barber trade as long as a #1 WR replacement were acquired.

QUOTE=emoney_33;1738450]And I still think Moss gets a 2 year extension here.

[/QUOTE]

If afraid that you are in the minority.

 

[Rob0729]

Tom can just throw to OL and RBs who needs WRs just Dallas because they like to collect them.

I didn't know that if the Pats trade away Moss that they can't any WRs to replace him. What if the Pats use a draft pick they get in this trade to sign a RFA WR like Vincent Jackson or Brandon Marshall? Or trade for Aquan Boldin or another WR? This receiving corp could be much improved without Moss (well minus Welker who could be back into the lineup next season despite Karen Guregan's speculation).

 

[Rob0729]

Really? You'd trade away a top-3 receiver in the NFL for a running back, in a passing league and you have Brady.... in a heartbeat :/

A RB capable of being the lead RB and getting over 1,000 yards for the next four or five years vs. a WR who is 33 and will probably be gone after next season? Seems like a no brainer to me. If the Pats can swing a deal to get Vincent Jackson, Moss might not even be missed. Let's not forget that Moss has faded down the stretch every year he was here. We need a WR who is playing his top form in December and January than September and October.

 

[emoney_33]

$6m is a good chunk of change. Why do you think it is not? Very good players will be had for $6m in this offseason.

Without a cap, that $6M can still be spent on a FA while keeping Moss and not having to worry about hitting the cap.

Thats the problem. There isn't one. Especially w/ WW on the shelf. If there was, I'd be much more comfortable w/ a Moss-for-Barber AND X as the conditions of the trade.

You trade your single good receiver because there's no replacement for him? This logic is making no sense to me.

I would support a RM for Barber trade as long as a #1 WR replacement were acquired.

Rob didn't say that, he said in a heartbeat he'd trade Moss for Barber. And since the Cowboys don't have a #1 they are giving us, I'd rather keep Moss and still get a #1 "replacement". Imagine that type of duo while Welker is out, we could approach 07 ridiculousness

If afraid that you are in the minority.

I know that, and a lot of that hinges on how his body holds up in 2010. Since he's been a non-physical receiver his whole career I'm optimistic about his chances of not breaking down.

 

[Triumph]

Or they might injure each other in practice.

bbbwwwaaaahhhh

Good stuff PJ

 

[gzathepat]

A RB capable of being the lead RB and getting over 1,000 yards for the next four or five years vs. a WR who is 33 and will probably be gone after next season? Seems like a no brainer to me. If the Pats can swing a deal to get Vincent Jackson, Moss might not even be missed. Let's not forget that Moss has faded down the stretch every year he was here. We need a WR who is playing his top form in December and January than September and October.

That's my biggest issue with Moss. Regular season is one thing but can you do it late in the season and in the playoffs. Moss hasn't done this his entire career.

 

[Triumph]

Dallas was a suitor for moss in 07


The Patriots and Randy Moss really aren't close to a new contract, although the Pats believe Moss will give them the option to match whatever deal he does receive on the open market. That makes sense because the clubs pursuing Moss will be limited because he wants to play for a contender. The most interesting rumor is Moss joining the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys can pay up, and wouldn't T.O. and Moss be interesting to watch, not to mention impossible to defend?

 

[emoney_33]

I didn't know that if the Pats trade away Moss that they can't any WRs to replace him. What if the Pats use a draft pick they get in this trade to sign a RFA WR like Vincent Jackson or Brandon Marshall? Or trade for Aquan Boldin or another WR? This receiving corp could be much improved without Moss (well minus Welker who could be back into the lineup next season despite Karen Guregan's speculation).

None of Jackson, Marshall or Boldin would make the 2010 receiving corp better in replacement of Moss. Plus, I'd much rather Moss + Boldin than Moss + Barber. This is a passing team and a passing league and we have Brady, remember?

A RB capable of being the lead RB and getting over 1,000 yards for the next four or five years vs. a WR who is 33 and will probably be gone after next season? Seems like a no brainer to me. If the Pats can swing a deal to get Vincent Jackson, Moss might not even be missed. Let's not forget that Moss has faded down the stretch every year he was here. We need a WR who is playing his top form in December and January than September and October.

Maroney is capable of 1,000 yards. The strategical decision not to pound any single RB that much throughout the season is one that I think you are blaming on an apparent lack of ability in Maroney. Barber is better yes, but BB doesn't seem to WANT to pound any RB for 1,000 yards since Dillon's breakdown.

And really, fade down the stretch? He didn't fade down the stretch in 07 nor 08.... and not even 09 when he had a separated shoulder.

 

[emoney_33]

That's my biggest issue with Moss. Regular season is one thing but can you do it late in the season and in the playoffs. Moss hasn't done this his entire career.

Go look at Moss' career playoff numbers before you insert your foot in your mouth.

 

[condon84]

Oh now it's all clear why we signed Patten....

 

[RobertWeathers]

Without a cap, that $6M can still be spent on a FA while keeping Moss and not having to worry about hitting the cap. .

IMO the Pats will continue to excercise fiscal responsibility and adhere to their current financial model and operate as they have been since 2000.

You trade your single good receiver because there's no replacement for him? This logic is making no sense to me. .

Let me clarify my position. I said we need to identify a #1 and acquire him. No way we should trade Moss w/o above-average targets for TB.

You didn't say that, you said in a heartbeat you'd trade Moss for Barber. .

Never said "in a heartbeat"- that was Rob. In my first post, I wasn't sure if Barber/Moss straight up was good value for the Pats. However, I do believe that the team needs to be a little more physical in the running game, but not to the point that the team is now 29th in passing. Brady is in his prime and needs weapons. However, his is 32, took a ton of hits last year and deserves a strong running game that defenses respect. If Welker was 100% and a solid outside #1 was found or two #2s were found to replace Moss, I would support the trade.

And since the Cowboys don't have a #1 they are giving us, I'd rather keep Moss and still get a #1 "replacement". Imagine that type of duo while Welker is out, we could approach 07 ridiculousness .

Agreed. The Pats would need to source replacement receivers elsewhere. Would love to see 07 output again as long as the D could stop offenses in the 2-minute drill at the end of games.

I know that, and a lot of that hinges on how his body holds up in 2010. Since he's been a non-physical receiver his whole career I'm optimistic about his chances of not breaking down.

Moss does have 2-3 solid years left. But if hes looking for another 3yr, $27m deal, not sure he'd get that here.

 

[condon84]

Carpenter is good at two things, recovering fumbles and holding in practice that is it!

I heard he can build a mean coffee table.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Its wishful thinking for Barber. Don't see the Pats taking on his contract. But if Dallas threatens to cut him, he may be willing to renego.....

2010: $3.86 million, 2011: $4.25 million, 2012: $5.75 million, 2013: $6.25 million, 2014: $7 million, 2015: Free Agent

 

[spacecrime]

Well that isn't realistic kthxbye

Yeah, like Austin and a third for Moss is

 

[emoney_33]

IMO the Pats will continue to excercise fiscal responsibility and adhere to their current financial model and operate as they have been since 2000.

I agree and Moss' $6M cap hit has (virtually) no effect on their model.

Let me clarify my position. I said we need to identify a #1 and acquire him. No way we should trade Moss w/o above-average targets for TB.

I will never say a player is "untradeable" except for Brady. If you can get at least adequate replacement for Moss, plus get a really good deal for him then that's fine. You can argue that with every single player on the team. However, Barber is NOT "good deal" IMO, not for this team.

Agreed. The Pats would need to source replacement receivers elsewhere. Would love to see 07 output again as long as the D could stop offenses in the 2-minute drill at the end of games.

And if they can't stop offenses in the 2-minute drill, does that imply you would not love to see 07 output again (They aren't mutually exclusive)

Moss does have 2-3 solid years left. But if hes looking for another 3yr, $27m deal, not sure he'd get that here.

We have no idea what he is looking for or what the Patriots are willing to offer. But we do know that Moss is not dead set about getting maximum top dollar, or at least hasn't been.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Moss traded to the Raiders for Richard Seymour....How about that?


While I just mentioned Seymour and why trading Moss is possible......
Wilfork should be getting sizable dollars and Moss may be hard to resign with Brady's contract coming up as well in 2011....If a big name on this team like Seymour who no one really thought was going to be traded for a future draft pick knowing the team was not likely able to extend him the following season,then is there really a player on this team whok is safe from the F.O in dealing him away?...Moss certainly is no exception.

 

[emoney_33]

The patriots have a solid running game with Maroney and company. It usually fits what they want to do. There is no sign to me that BB will want to put dollars into a higher priced RB and pound them the majority of the runs. The risk of quick decline with the pounding they take is not worth the investment when you have a guy like Brady and a passing league like the NFL.