Moss '07-09 or Gronk right now: which player is/was more valuable to the offense?

[eric5280]

I honestly think it's Gronkowski and the reason has more to do with favorable matchups than actual skill sets and abilities. Moss was the best deep threat the game has ever seen but due to the nature of his position and the nature of the game, he never gets the favorable matchups Gronkowski can get from the TE position. Then you add his run blocking abilities and yeah, Gronkowski is probably the best weapon the Patriots have ever had.

 

[borg]

One opens the middle of the field by attracting S play on the deep sidelines. The other opens the sidelines by attracting S play in the middle. The x factor is Hernandez now.....who covers him ??...S or LB. When Brady solves the coverage, a great player is open.


Answer: Gronk/Hernandez > Moss

And to add to my original TE love.....the closer you get to the endzone, the higher % chance completing a TD pass to a player closer to the snap.....Gronk in front of Brady vs Moss in the corner of the endzone

 

[resdubwhite]

I think Gronkowski will be the first 100 TD TE (not sure how close Gonzalez is think its about 80)

For that reason I think its gronk. Cos we've all those TD's to come in the future.

 

[Wax Frog]

I never thought I would see a skill player bring the kind of edge Randy did to the offense.

This is a completely different kind of edge, but at the end of the day, Gronk can contribute a lot more to the offense than Randy can. The days of "doubling Randy and coming down on Welker and we're done" are over. No more drive-killing low-percentage deep shots.

I'm really not trying to take anything away from Randy and how enjoyable it was to watch him play in his prime. But if I had to choose where I'd rather put $10 million a year at this point, it wouldn't even be a discussion.

I swear, the catch Gronk had in the corner of the end zone on Saturday may be the most athletic thing I've ever seen from someone that big. Even if he had eventually lost possession, it still would have been incredible how quickly he tipped and snagged the ball in mid-air.

Cliff Notes version = my sig/status

 

[randomk1]

You guys are getting ridiculous...prime Moss vs prime Gronk isn't even a comparison.( has Gronk reached his prime? )

I would also love to see Gronks numbers with the crap that Moss was playing with in his prime years. He carried every QB except Brady and 07 was arguably his last season in his prime.

Take off your homer glasses and go ask this question in a non-biased forum and see what you get.

 

[strngplyr]

Not sure if these points have been made, but:

1.) Moss was at the end of his career, his production slipped after 07

2.) Moss was a high risk high reward type of player, much more dangerous passes to him but quicker scoring aiblity

3.) Gronk is a safer target. Bigger body to put inbetween the ball and defender

4.) Gronk is just as much of a match up problem. Randy had speed to kill you, gronk has size that can't be matched by a DB

It's really hard to choose. If we had Randy in his younger years (without the attitude) he would probably be more valuable. But with the 07-09 Moss, I'll take Rob. Rob's career has only just begun, but it's still hard to compare many players to Randy knowing what he's done. Here's to hoping Rob grows old here in New England and only gets better.

 

[The Scrizz]

I'll go with Gronk but 07 Moss on the outside with Gronk and AH would have been completely indefensible. They would make Ed Reed look like Sergio Brown.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Bring in a young Moss from 2003 and see what happens.

Moss is the greatest weapon in NFL history.

That's the thing that I think a lot of people here don't realize here - by the time Moss got here in 2007, he was already past his physical prime. I'd take Gronk in 2011 over Moss in 2007, but the real debate, to me, is Gronk in 2011 or Moss in 2003. Randy was the only player on that offense that anyone feared, and he accounted for nearly 50% of the receiving yards on a team that didn't scare anyone running the ball. He was the offense.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The biggest advantage I think Gronk has over Moss is the ability to move the chains more consistently. While the '07 Patriots had a great third-down efficiency, by 2009, we saw how badly they struggled on 3rd and short when they didn't have as many weapons. Obviously, Gronk is an ideal player to have on those critical third and short situations.

Doesn't do a lot of good having Moss out there when you need those tough yards.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The biggest advantage I think Gronk has over Moss is the ability to move the chains more consistently. While the '07 Patriots had a great third-down efficiency, by 2009, we saw how badly they struggled on 3rd and short when they didn't have as many weapons. Obviously, Gronk is an ideal player to have on those critical third and short situations.

Doesn't do a lot of good having Moss out there when you need those tough yards.

Hmmm.

In 07, Moss had 74 catches for 1st downs and the team converted 5.9 3rd downs a game.

In 11, Gronk had 69 catches for 1st downs with 8 less catches and the team converted 5.4 3rd downs a game.

Both were/are great at moving the chains.

I would agree that Gronk adds more value in 3rd short.

 

[IllegalContact]

I guess we'll see if the pats can get any further......if so, yes, if not, no

To me, it seems that the same thing that plagued the pats with moss, continues to be the case right now.....

The pats stand to have 2 very good opportunities to change all that the next few weeks

 

[randomk1]

Was just hearing Troy Brown on the topic of 07 offense vs this years offense and he said that he likes this one more. His main reasoning was of more high percentage throws.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Was just hearing Troy Brown on the topic of 07 offense vs this years offense and he said that he likes this one more. His main reasoning was of more high percentage throws.

....and TB still completed 69% of his throws in 07..

The only thing about this offense that bothers me is the lack of playmaking RB.

07 didn't really have one either although if he hadn't gotten hurt, Sammy Morris was on pace for a 1000yd season. He was running hard.

 

[Stilla]

Gronk:2010 -2011
132 receptions
1,873 yards
27 TDs

Moss 1998 -1999
149 receptions
2,744 yards
28 TDs

Moss had 1,413 yards in his second year in the pros, Gronk had 1,327.

 

[randomk1]

Gronk:2010 -2011
132 receptions
1,873 yards
27 TDs

Moss 1998 -1999
149 receptions
2,744 yards
28 TDs

Moss had 1,413 yards in his second year in the pros, Gronk had 1,327.

Moss did it with Randall Cunningham/Jeff George.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Moss did it with Randall Cunningham/Jeff George.

..and they also had a pro-bowl runner in Robert Smith to keep the defense honest.

Wasn't just all Moss, just like here w/ Welker, Brady etc.

 

[randomk1]

..and they also had a pro-bowl runner in Robert Smith to keep the defense honest.

Wasn't just all Moss, just like here w/ Welker, Brady etc.

I'm not saying it was but a receiver depends largely on the guy who is throwing the ball and i'm pretty sure Moss made alot of those QBs he played with alot better than they were.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not saying it was but a receiver depends largely on the guy who is throwing the ball and i'm pretty sure Moss made alot of those QBs he played with alot better than they were.

Jeff George was always somewhat of a enigma but he had a couple of other years that were just as good, if not better than his year in MN.

Cunningham was a different QB in MN. He stayed in the pocket more and never had as many offensive weapons available to him. He had just as productive years in Philly.

Culpepper's best year came when Moss was hobbling on a bad ankle and shoulder and needed to distribute the ball more.

Same goes for Brady. His highest TD year was 07 but I'd argue that his years in '10 and '11 were better.

Stats show QBs had good years with Randy but they also had good years without him.

 

[sly24]

I would say Gronk because he does so much. Blocking, receiving, etc. He had a few drops in the EZ this year. He will contest Randy's 23 TDs at some point in his career. It's only his second playoff game but I think it's clear he will overproduce Moss in the playoffs.

While all this is going on, Deion Sanders is still saying Jimmy Graham is better.

 

[eagle eye]

There is no splitting Moss' 07 season and Gronk's 11 season, they were both outstanding. You don't compare outstanding seasons like that from players in different positions.