Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Leave No Doubt, May 20, 2010.
Mosque to Open Two Blocks From World Trade Center - DNAinfo.com
It's "Racist" to object to it.
My Problem with this is that we need to all focus on immigrants becoming Americans. We are too focused on ensuring that people who come to those country maintain their cultural identity, to the point of creating tribes of different people in our country.
If you come here, you need to respect where you came from but decide that you are American, and you want to become part of what is American. That means leaving your cultural rules, and laws behind you.
Islam tends to blur the line of Religious freedom and societal behavior. You should maintain whatever your religion of choice is, but outside that church or mosque, you better feel like your an American. Which means being an American in heart, and mind.
With Mexican Immigrants, and all these other "tribes" coming to this country, and not becomign Americans, but just maintaining their heritage, culture, and national identify from their previous country, it only aims to split this country apart.
If you do not want to be an American, and do not feel like an American, do not believe in what that Flag stands for as a national ideal, an ideal of freedom, then you need to leave this country.
200 years ago, people came here becuase they wanted to be an American. They didn't come here to be an "Englishman" or "Irishman" living in America, they came here to be Americans. We need to get back to what it means to be an American, and that doesn't mean Christian.
Ok. So um:
"Khan envisions the $100 million, 100,000-square-foot Cordoba House as much more than a mosque: She wants it to be a gathering place for the entire downtown community, including residents, workers and tourists, whether they are Muslim or not."
Last I checked, the Quran is rather against infadels (aka non-muslims) stepping foot inside a mosque. It's kind of why most terrorists hide in mosques...
"The 13-story center, which could open as soon as 2013 at 45 Park Place, will include a 500-seat auditorium, a basketball court, a swimming pool and a kitchen for cooking classes. Khan hopes to host interfaith conferences and panels along with more lighthearted events like a Muslim Idol talent competition."
Holy cripes, have these people never read the Quran? The terrorists are going to blow this place up!
â€śThis didnâ€™t happen because of Muslim people,â€ť Migeal said, gesturing toward the site. â€śTerrorism and Islam have nothing to do [with each other].â€ť
Um, Mr. Migeal, they kind of, maybe, just a little tiny bit have just a smidgeon to do with each other...
You better run that one by the large population of Hassidic Jews in New York and New Jersey and the Amish in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana.
Interesting point. Do the Amish get federal funds?
Again, your knee jerking response makes no sense... What do the Amish do or act that is unAmerican?
Did I say, if you come to this country you better work hard to save up for that over priced SUV and your large flat screen TV! or your unAmerican!
It's interesting isn't it?
If you post a knee jerk response to a knee jerk response does it cancel itself out????
"Old" Amish are exempt from paying taxes... but as much of what they do is part of a "barter" economy, it must be hard to track..
They do not join the military even in times of draft. They do not pay into social security or Medicare. They do not send their children to high school.
Your original post was not about "unamerican," it was about people needing to abandon their "culture," upon arriving in The USA. The Amish have not done so, Conservative Jews have not done so. We have allowed them not to - why would we not allow any other group the same right?
Some New Yorkers react to the 100 million dollar project:
No Mosques At Ground Zero
$100 million mosque in the works near Ground Zero | 7online.com
Plans For Mosque Near Ground Zero
I believe I was speaking to a higher meaning of what I meant by being an American. Believing in Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness.
You can have your culture, but being an American means that you have to let others as well. So when someone wears an American Flag on Cinco de Mayo, you can't ***** about it... We allow you to show your cultural pride, anyone else can wear theres as well.
Learn the language, if you do not want to learn the language, you don't want to be an American, you only want to live here and collect it's benefits without contributing back.
If you continue to "respect everyones" cultures, then all you will be left with is a fractured country ripe with infighting, and tribal mentiality. Where nothing gets done, and we become weaker becuase of it.
We have no grown stronger becuase of the "diversification without assimilation", we can only grow stronger as a country, as a multi-cultural nation, if we support diversification WITH assimilation".
If we maintain this hands off approach of allowing people who do not share the same core American principles, who do not want to learn the language, who do not want to know what liberty even means, and who can't even communicate with 95% of this country.
Then your asking for Tribes, that only look out for themselves in-spite of the whole.
Do you want a country full of sectors of people who only want to see their group rewarded at the expense of the Nation as a whole?
That is what we are faced with becuase somewhere in the 80's and 90's we stopped asking immigrants to become Americans, and just let them set up their own "little-country X" and everyone else stays out of there.
This actually leads to further discrimination, rather than less.
You end up with demographics stunk in their own areas, seperated from the people who are not like them.
Gated Communities and cultural population silos are not the foundation and strength of this country.
Amen Mcgraw! I think the vast majority of American CITIZENS would agree with your comments. Once a US citizen, your allegiance must be to the USA...100% of it. Not to Mexico, Argentina or even Israel...THE USA is your country!
And all of this has what, exactly, to do with a mosque being built in New York?
Let me try the liberal whine...
Sseeeeparation of church and state waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh
The Muslim religion routinely forces their cultural laws on their followers which do not follow the path of American culture, which only further enforces Muslim Communities segregation from mainstream American communities.
Again, they are only following the Jewish people's lead by swarming NYC to influence media, and culture in America.
So on that aspect I can't blame them.
But I believe it's time to look at all special interest groups, and ask them, Do you want to be American more than anything else? If not why are you here?
Love how you think my friend, and the bolded-isn't that exactly what we've been experiencing and dontcha sometimes wonder if some or most of the "in your face" politics is meant to drive this wedge in even furthur? W. was divisive but this administration seems to be taking us even beyond that.
Rather than "uniting people" as this mosque claims to do, it's in fact dividing us even more.
Or have the Amish or Hasidic Jews ever murdered thousands of Americans?
Who cares if they open a Mosque. If it were a catholic church, or a Jewish temple, it wouldn't get a mention. Seriously, who cares.
Terrific post. When I was growing up, my parents, relatives, and friends parents, all made sure that we were Americans first, Italians second. They pretty much pushed it to the point where alot of my peers don't have a genuine grasp of the Italian culture, like they maybe should. The point is, asymilation was very important. Today, I feel like it's the opposite. As if the PC police are forcing our American culture to accomodate all things foreign. I think that's absolute BS. If you come here, then you are swearing your allegiance to the US of A. You learn, and respect our way. That doesn't mean your cultural ways are to be forgotten, or aren't welcomed. It simply means that you have to put this country first. I don't think todays immigrants do that. In part because they've simply walked in illegally, without respect for anyone, and also because of the coddling the PC crowd, and big business. Thankfully, the American people have had enough, and the AZ law is the start of a very needed correction.
So you would do away with Jewish customs and culture, as well?
This IS America, as you keep pointing out. I hardly think that here, in this country, the Muslim religion is forcing it's followers to live by it's "cultural laws." If that was what Muslims who've immigrated to America wanted to do, they would have stayed living in a Muslim country.
I wonder, McGraw, just how many Muslims you are actually acquainted with.
Have the vast majority of Muslims done so, either?
Perhaps we should round up and kick out all the German and Japanese people living in America while we're at it. They, too, have killed thousands of Americans.
Being an IT Manager, far more than you I bet.
The fact that you have to throw in the term "vast majority" speaks volumes.
Actually, when we were at war with Japan, that's exactly what FDR (hero of the left) did. But since they surrendered unconditionally about 65 years ago and are now an ally, I think we can let bygones be bygones.
Qur'an, section 9, part 17:
The idolaters have no right to visit the mosques of God while bearing testimony to their disbelief. Meaningless will be their acts, and in Hell they will bide forever.
^ part 18:
Only those who believe in God and the Last Day, who fulfill their devotional obligations pay the zakat and fear no one but God, can visit the mosques of God. They may hope to be among the guided.
^ part 28:
O believers, the idonlaters are unclean. So they should not approach the Holy Mosque* after this year. In case you fear indigence (from the stopping of business with them), then God will enrich you of His bounty if He will, for God is all-knowing and all-wise
^ part 107:
There are those who built a mosque on opposition and disbelief, and to cause rifts among the faithful, and to serve as an outpost for those who have warred against God and His Apostle before this. Yet they will surely swear: "We had only meant well.: But God is witness that they are liars.
^ part 108:
Never set foot in that place. Only a mosque whose foundations have been laid from the very first on godliness is worthy of your visiting it. There you will find men who wish to be purified; and God loves those who are pure.
*Holy Mosque = Mecca
^Examples of why this mosque is a bad idea.
Most Catholics for example, don't follow every required rule they are told to follow (even the most devout!) so we should expect other religions to accept that sometimes people can have faith without following the strict guidelines right? Sure. I mean, when was the last time an extremist Catholic blew himself up in a crowd of civilians?
Of course most religions don't have things like:
^ part 119:
O believers, do not stray from the path of God, and be with those who are truthful.
^ part 123:
O believers, fight the unbelievers around you, and let them realize that you are firm: Remember, God is with those who are pious and obedient to Him.
Etc, etc, etc...
My point being, while most religious fanatics will be content believing, and even saying that you are going to hell for not sharing their exact beliefs, Islam's fanatics tend to try and send you to hell as soon as they can.
And this mosque is very definitely going to become a target of Islamic extremists. I understand what their goal is, to try and help bring Islam to the 21st century (as opposed to it mostly being still stuck in the 14th century). But it's a bad idea. No other religious text I've ever read has been so pro-kill everyone else. Sure, Catholics used their religious texts as an excuse to kill tons of people back in the day, but not because it said so in their books. They did it just because they were corrupted by the power they had and wanted to take over the Roman empire.
I'll start with "vast majority" and use 1 recent example.
Does a particular Danish cartoon ring any bells? A whole lot more than just a few Muslims world-wide rose up and rioted. Not just the extremist crazies either, it was the regular crazies too. You do something their book says not too, they get pissed!!
Also, keep an eye on France, and see how their whole "ban the burka" thing goes. I am totally for it, but I don't see it going easily!
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