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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well over in Britain this is a big topic although the MSM in the US is doing their best to ignore the issue.

    Links to some article about the latest developments, Steyn on what the Brit papers are reporting, Phil Jones may end up taking the fall, and even the settled science guys are sounding very unsure of themselves:

    Cooling on Phil - Mark Steyn - The Corner on National Review Online

    Tim Flannery (a settled science guy/ IPCC copntributor:


    So the modelers don't really get it.. the models predictions don't match reality (reality wins in real science), and those who brought up the FACT that the earth is cooling are right and the denials from the climate crisis crowd are wrong (perhaps an outright LIE?).


    From Climate audit, via "watts up with that' blog how the Hockey trick helped the Hickey stick scam:

    Mike’s Nature Trick Watts Up With That?



    Remember this graph is being used by the IPCC to push their climate crisis agenda. Looks like fraud. McKittrick is right Mann is a liar.



    Then there are the code comments (more than emails were released code was also released). The code comments , show data was left out to give the desired results:

    CRU Emails “may” be open to interpretation, but commented code by the programmer tells the real story Watts Up With That?



    Finally (for today at least) an admission from a journalist who promoted climate alarmism about the emails.

    Monbiot issues an unprecedented apology Watts Up With That?

    The following are from a blog and not commercial source.


    He fudges that this is just fraud by 3 or 4 scientist, but even these admissions are startling. Do you realize how much of our money has been spent on this fraud?


    A good summary on where we stand from IBD:

    Investors.com - E-Mails Of Climate Researchers Buttress Case Of Warming Fraud


    From Powerline which has done a great job reviewing the emails.

    Investors.com - E-Mails Of Climate Researchers Buttress Case Of Warming Fraud


    This link concerns emails talking about destroying emails and data that might undermine the alarmist claims rather than release the data under Britain's FOIA.
     
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From the WSJ today:



    What the Global Warming Emails Reveal - WSJ.com
     
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Has "The Bellowing Boob" Gore had anything to say on this yet?
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This strikes me as nothing. In the course of email discussions over a number of yeras, a lot of thoughts and ideas are bandied about and issues are raised. If anything, it shows the integrity of the scientific community, namely that they raised a lot of issues before coming to conclusions. I'd love to see the private emails of skeptics to see if there's such honest debate. I think not.

    These desperate attempts by the skeptics to invade the privacy of the scientific community are largely debunked at realclimate.org. It's sad that the skeptics should have to resort to illegal activity.

    RealClimate

    No doubt, instances of cherry-picked and poorly-worded “gotcha” phrases will be pulled out of context. One example is worth mentioning quickly. Phil Jones in discussing the presentation of temperature reconstructions stated that “I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline.” The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There was no debate indeed they were trying to blackball people who submitted scientific papers that idsagreed with their positions.

    They spoke of deastroying data covered by Freedom of Information Request.

    They refused to supply copies of data to people who weren't members of their 'cabal'.


    They also as documented in the code samples cited about truncated datasets to get the results they want.

    Real Climate is an interesting source since the people involved with that site are the same people committing fraud. This is like asking J Gotti Jr about the validity of describing the mafia as a criminal orgaization. :singing:;)
     
  6. atomdomb

    atomdomb Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    More lying douchebags get caught lying.
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The only ones who feel that way are those on the losing side of the argument. The "scandal" doesn't even seem to be getting much play from the likes of Fox News or Drudge, perhaps because it's based on illegal activities, and frankly when the skeptics resort to crime to try to score points, it makes them look bad. Not only are facts against them, but now they have an ethical deficit as well (other than the ethical deficit of being largely funded by the oil companies). Again, there's nothing in those emails accept the ordinary banter and some tacky and ambiguous comments typical of email exchanges.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What are you talking about? Was any data destroyed?

    If the skeptics don't have the data, why do you believe them? To my knowledge, data is provided in peer reviews and much of the data is online.

    Where is it documented that they truncated datasets to "get the results they want"?

    I imagine this issue must be as frustrating to you, as the big defeat of Creationism was to Creationists. Even using illegally obtained information doesn't seem to be helping the side of the skeptics any.
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    This is/was the biggest ponzi scheme of all time. I'm slightly hopefull that the economic state of the planet, as well as this hacked data, will help cool (pun intended) this money grab. This has never been about the environment. Just follow the money aspect of it all, and you realize that fact rather quickly. When you begin to get into global taxes, passed over remedies (nuclear power for example), and exemptions for significant poluters simply because they aren't quite a "have" yet, you can only come to one conclusion. It's all BS.
     
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, many of those who believe in global warming support nuclear solutions and the proposed solutions to global warming are what's in the political sphere, because it has to be negotiated between political entities. The science remains true, and it's difficult to imagine that thousands upon thousands of scientists are engaged in some sort of Ponzi scheme. In fact, that seems like an absurd conspiracy theory. If your limiting your point to the way politicians are attempting to capitalize on global warming, well, then, both sides can obviously make the same point, since doing nothing about global warming will protect old money interests and doing something helps new money interests.
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The science is anything but true. The science is based on models & projections. Models and projections that we are finding out were fudged, and flawed. If the science were so true, then why is the planet cooling, which runs contrary to what the models claimed?

    Follow the money.
     
  12. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    No matter how you try to spin it, the science doesn't remain true. Carbon levels are rising, yet the Earth is still cooling - leaving the so-called proGW scientists dumbfounded.

    This was about money all along. Follow the money.

    How much proof do you need, Patters? -to make you wake up and realize you've been duped? Al Gore has been lying to you, scientific temperature projections have been way off, and now there is verified proof that government-employed scientists have been cooking the books. I see you come up with excuse after excuse, but when will common sense enter your perspective?

    EDITORIAL: Hiding evidence of global cooling

     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2009
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The money leads to big oil and the big polluters, which you obviously don't realize are vastly wealthier and more powerful than alternative energy interests. In fact, the point your trying to make is laughable. Al Gore's millions vs. Exxons billions, vs. Saudi Arabia's billions. The money argument is utterly absurd, but if you want to use that one, I'll happily use it, since the money is clearly on the side of the polluters.

    But, never mind that, when a group of independent statisticians were asked to analyze the data without knowing what it represented, guess what they concluded:

    AP IMPACT: Statisticians reject global cooling | ajc.com

    "In a blind test, the AP gave temperature data to four independent statisticians and asked them to look for trends, without telling them what the numbers represented. The experts found no true temperature declines over time."

    The political right cherry picks numbers and anomalies to try to make their point. When that fails, they criminally break into email accounts and do some cherry picking there.
     
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Every time Goofy Gore trys to hold a meeting on his Global Warming Crap they have to cancel it because of a Blizzard

    :singing::singing::singing:

    It doesn't show signs of stopping
    I brought some corn for popping
    Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow
     
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Goofy Gore Building A Global Warming Shelter>>>>>>:bricks:
     
  16. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Statisticians hired by the AP. What data were they provided? Article doesn't indicate the origination of the data analyzed.
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Big Bucks in the Global Warming Crap
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
  18. patsfan13

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    Problems is the Brits has said the email are genuine. There is also strong speculation that this was an 'inside job' perhaps a member of the alarmist cabal had a conscience about the fraud and the cost to humanity for this fraud being foisted upon the people of theowrld.
     
  19. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Nothing says open and honest scientific debate like threateneing your rivals and doing everything you can to censor and blacklist them.
     
  20. patsfan13

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    No the money leads to bovernments who want to reap trillions of dollars from taxing energy.

    If the science were real the data and code used in the models would have been realeased for independent verification like they do in real science as opposed to politicized science.
     

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