More Mallett Chit Chat

[Miguel]

Rumors are the Pats have rejected second round pick trades in the past. Maybe they are true.

FWIW - When I asked one of those who started the rumors when did the trade offers occur never got a reply. He had claimed that the Broncos were one of the teams.

 

[Miguel]

FYI - http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=QB

If Mallett does not play a snap in 2014, I am very doubtful that he would get a contract that would qualify for 6th round or higher compensatory pick,

 

[Triumph]

2 - 1st round picks seems like a very reasonable price for Mallet when Rohan Davey was worth just a 1st.

WooHoo I cant wait for this draft! 3 1st round picks baby.

 

[moosekill]

Every time it comes to evaluating Mallett's value I see this same old 'learned from Brady and Belichick' trope. Which is weird because the Pats have only produced 1 good QB in Belichick's tenure and his name is Brady. I liked Cassel, I liked Hoyer but these aren't guys who commanded big trade value or went on to accomplish great things.

So why would Mallett be different?

I disagree with this completely. Cassel was franchised at $12 million and the Pats still got a second rounder for him. He has played pretty well as a starter. Hoyer didn't bring anything in a trade, but he did well as a starter until he got hurt. I think if anything, those two have made Mallett much more valuable.

 

[Triumph]

I disagree with this completely. Cassel was franchised at $12 million and the Pats still got a second rounder for him. He has played pretty well as a starter. Hoyer didn't bring anything in a trade, but he did well as a starter until he got hurt. I think if anything, those two have made Mallett much more valuable.

Pioli gave NE a 2nd rounder and then put his GM career on Cassel. Both were fired and run out of KC.

Just because a team gives a player big money that does not make him good. Look at Sanchez, Jmarcus Russell and hordes of NFL players who stunk. Cassel did not play well as a starter. He played decent in KC when Weis was OC, but was just awful in the playoff loss to Baltimore. The Pats changed the offense to a running offense to mask Cassels weakness when he took over for Brady.

At the time, some believed he was the next Brady. Nobody believes that now.

 

[363839]

Any GM that gives up a 3rd round pick for a backup qb, just doesn't like his job anymore.

 

[patfanken]

Some comments on the comments:

1. So many scenarios and so much time to discuss them.

2. I think the most likely scenario will not to trade him. With that plan the Pats have an "experienced" back up. They don't have to use a draft pick to replace him. They don't have to carry 3 QB's on the roster. Finally they are looking at up to a 3rd round comp pick, if he starts for his next team.

3. So to trade him the Pats would likely want a significant improvement on what would likely be a pick around 96-100 in 2015. They will also have to sign a FA plus draft a rookie and carry 3 QB's on the roster That's why the pick has to more value than say swapping 2nds with Houston. Either that or BB seeing a player at 33 that he deems he HAS to have.

4. The best trade IMO, for both the Pats and whomever the trading partner winds up being, would be to take a 3rd or 4th in this year's draft and a conditional pick in 2015 that COULD wind up as a first. ie - (If he starts more than 8 games its a 2nd. If he starts and the team makes the playoffs its a 1st) If he doesn't start, its a 5th)

5. In the end, unless some team wow's them with a great pick, I don't see Mallett going anywhere, simply because what they might get is likely not going to be worth the disruption and cost of what they'd have to do to replace him. So with that in mind, the only reason BB would take even a top 5 pick in the 2nd round is that there is a player there he REALLY really wants.

 

[stumeister]

I heard that the Pats have been talking about an extension for Mallett. So they must like something about him.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Whilst I fail to see any logic in trading away your only viable backup and replacing him with a draft pick, there is no smoke without fire. What I question is whether the Pats are remotely interested. There may well be teams throwing out a line and seeing if we will bite, but that doesn't mean that the Pats are actually interested.

I see us drafting a QB this year but I don't see us trading away Mallet until we have picked one up in the draft and seen what he can do.

If Belichick would happily trade away his only backup for a shot in the dark, I'd be very unhappy...and drafting any QB in the draft is almost always a shot in the dark...it's that much of a lottery.

 

[fnordcircle]

I disagree with this completely. Cassel was franchised at $12 million and the Pats still got a second rounder for him. He has played pretty well as a starter. Hoyer didn't bring anything in a trade, but he did well as a starter until he got hurt. I think if anything, those two have made Mallett much more valuable.

The Patriots didn't get a 2nd rounder for Cassel they got a 2nd rounder for Cassel and Vrabel. Cassel's post NE career has overall been a disappointment which is why a guy who lead our team to 11-5 was brought in as a backup after failing in KC.

This isn't me telling you how I want the world to be, it's how I see it. I liked Cassel but if it still takes Cassel + Vrabel after Cassel went 11-5 I just don't see how Mallett is going to magically be viewed as having value having done jack **** other than backup our QB and throw an INT that wasn't his fault.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I disagree with this completely. Cassel was franchised at $12 million and the Pats still got a second rounder for him. He has played pretty well as a starter. Hoyer didn't bring anything in a trade, but he did well as a starter until he got hurt. I think if anything, those two have made Mallett much more valuable.

The other thing to remember is that Cassel was a 7th rounder and Hoyer was an UDFA and neither had great physical talent. And while neither are great players they have both shown some promise and won games in the NFL. Cassel made a Pro Bowl in 2010 and Hoyer looked good for Cleveland last year before he got hurt. Both guys have physical limitations but the fact that they wen't from 7th round/UDFA's to at least borderline NFL starters is a positive for the Mallett situation. The Pats helped to get the most out of two guys with limited physical ability, if they can get the most out of Mallett then they have a hell of a player there. I'm not saying teams will give up a high pick for him but I don't think the Cassel/Hoyer situations would devalue Mallett at all. To be honest I think Ryan Mallett has more physical talent than any QB in the 2014 draft so my asking price for him would be pretty high.

 

[Ivan]

So much speculation over a potential 4th round pick trading hands.

Awesome. If anything indicates that the Patriots are going to get a 2nd for Mallett it is this.

 

[Wilfork#75]

The Patriots didn't get a 2nd rounder for Cassel they got a 2nd rounder for Cassel and Vrabel. Cassel's post NE career has overall been a disappointment which is why a guy who lead our team to 11-5 was brought in as a backup after failing in KC.

This isn't me telling you how I want the world to be, it's how I see it. I liked Cassel but if it still takes Cassel + Vrabel after Cassel went 11-5 I just don't see how Mallett is going to magically be viewed as having value having done jack **** other than backup our QB and throw an INT that wasn't his fault.

There were so many other factors you are leaving out in the Cassel/Vrabel trade that had a significant impact. Mainly the fact that Cassel was under the franchise tag and the Pats couldn't afford to wait and try and get a better deal. They were forced to move him early to clear cap space to be able to make other moves and its likely that they could have gotten a better deal if it wasn't for the cap forcing their hand. Vrabel was a salary dump and had little trade value at the time. I also think a small part of the reason BB traded Cassel to KC instead of a situation like Detroit is out of loyalty and taking care of his guys. As I said in my previous post that doesn't mean I think they will get a high pick for Mallett, but you are certainly overlooking a key factor in the Cassel trade.

 

[varjao]

I think 2nd round is out of the question here guys, 3rd round on sounds much more reasonable.

Unfortunately Mallet did not play a single snap last season, I think the plan was getting a good film out of him, but with the majority of games so close in the score, they didn't get the chance. Even that could be an side effect of the Ahern issue.

There are really no facts to increase Mallet's value, it's all speculation, the only undeniable fact is film, snaps played, and unfortunately his few numbers are bad. I understand the thought process that he's under Brady for 3 years, was a high prospect in his draft class, there are teams in need for a QB with a playoff in team already in place, I just don't see any GM giving a 2nd for him, maybe a low 2nd, but the teams in those spots are all set at QB.

 

[ausbacker]

There were so many other factors you are leaving out in the Cassel/Vrabel trade that had a significant impact. Mainly the fact that Cassel was under the franchise tag and the Pats couldn't afford to wait and try and get a better deal. They were forced to move him early to clear cap space to be able to make other moves and its likely that they could have gotten a better deal if it wasn't for the cap forcing their hand. Vrabel was a salary dump and had little trade value at the time. I also think a small part of the reason BB traded Cassel to KC instead of a situation like Detroit is out of loyalty and taking care of his guys. As I said in my previous post that doesn't mean I think they will get a high pick for Mallett, but you are certainly overlooking a key factor in the Cassel trade.

Not that I was particularly high on Cassel but people keep talking like he was the sole reason for the Chiefs being abysmal conveniently ignoring the less than stellar coaching jobs of Haley and Crennel and the reasonably average proliferation of talent Cassel had to work with. He had a few players of note (two who are RBs) on O; Dwayne Bowe, the often injured Tony Moeaki, Jamaal Charles and Thomas Jones.

I'm not defending Cassel but he had considerably more talent to work with during his season with New England. He also had better coaching and a better system around him. That's the beauty of Belichick. He coaches guys to their max.

Using Cassel as any gauge of Mallett's NFL-ability is, in my opinion, unwise. It's not fair to Mallett (and I sit on the a pie would be great return in a trade for Mallett).

 

[Gwedd]

Not meaning to sound sarcastic by any means, but I think the fact that all of them are significantly younger, and would come on a cheap rookie contract for the next 4-5 years would be pretty decent reasons.

With Mallett, yes-- you're getting someone with more "experience" (and I use that term loosely), but you're also getting someone who needs to re-sign a brand new deal at the end of the year that you're going to have to take a big chance on financially, and someone who's about 5 years older than some of these guys.

Those reasons may offset any value that someone may see in Mallett. Of course, there are also the potential pluses that you speak of as well, so it's all about if someone wants to take a chance on him or not.

I very much agree with this. I've been championing McCarron for quite awhile. Yeah, I'm an Alabama homer, but more to the point is that AJ has been playing in a system very similar to what New England uses, and with basically the same terminology. That makes it a whole lot easier to adapt to the Patriot's pro-offense. Add to that a 4-year rookie contract, and that's a heck of a deal for a back-up for Brady, and a potential replacement down the road.

The one thing that McCarron has that I REALLY admire, is his work ethic and desire to win. In many ways it's not unlike Brady's. He's also expressed a desire to come here, and the willingness to sit and watch and learn. I see it like the situation Young was in out in San Francisco.

Regardless, it's gonna be an interesting weekend, that's for sure.

ROLL TIDE!

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

IF Pats trade The Hammah, which I seriously doubt, then we're left with no #2 and a pathetic selection of FA QBs. Were that to happen I'd hate to see a QB drafted before round 4, assuming that this is a deep draft. Both for Brady's last Championship contending years and also for the transitional years I want to see a strong 22 with depth. Sometimes a rookie beats out a vet QB backup in camp and by summer's end a vet QB pops free, but usually they suck or they're grabbed by someone who lost their 1 or 2 in training camp to injury.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

I think Mallett will be traded, but I dont see a high draft pick for him. Maybe a 4th or 5th.

 

[VJCPatriot]

You said it yourself though. Whatever team gets him will get a full season to evaluate him and then decide if they want to extend him to a long term deal. Add on top of that a weak QB class where Bortles is probably the best guy available and guys like Bridgewater, Manziel etc. have their stock plummeting.

I very much doubt Mallet will go anywhere though. As lowball offers of 3rd/4th round picks will just get rejected out of hand. Having an experienced insurance policy at backup QB is very important as we saw in Matt Cassell's unexpected year as the Patriots starter.

With Mallett, yes-- you're getting someone with more "experience" (and I use that term loosely), but you're also getting someone who needs to re-sign a brand new deal at the end of the year that you're going to have to take a big chance on financially, and someone who's about 5 years older than some of these guys.

Those reasons may offset any value that someone may see in Mallett. Of course, there are also the potential pluses that you speak of as well, so it's all about if someone wants to take a chance on him or not.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

The Patriots didn't get a 2nd rounder for Cassel they got a 2nd rounder for Cassel and Vrabel. Cassel's post NE career has overall been a disappointment which is why a guy who lead our team to 11-5 was brought in as a backup after failing in KC.

This isn't me telling you how I want the world to be, it's how I see it. I liked Cassel but if it still takes Cassel + Vrabel after Cassel went 11-5 I just don't see how Mallett is going to magically be viewed as having value having done jack **** other than backup our QB and throw an INT that wasn't his fault.

The Patriots were not going to pay Vrabel the salary he was due and he probably would have been released if he was not traded. It was likely more of a favor to Vrabel, allowing him to collect a 3-4 million dollar salary, than it was about adding value to the trade.