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More incompetence by the Bush administration

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, May 24, 2006.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The same administration that has seen close to 6,000 Americans killed by terrorists during their watch has security procedures that enabled an employee to download and bring home personal data about 26.5 million veterans! It amazes me that that kind of information could be downloaded in such quantity without red flags going up all over the place. This administration is amateur hour, and this time the joke is on the veterans.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/vets26_million_ids

    WASHINGTON - Under intense bipartisan fire from Capitol Hill, Veterans Affairs Secretary Jim Nicholson said Wednesday he was outraged by his agency's decision to keep the theft of veterans' personal data quiet for two weeks.

    ...

    "I am outraged at the loss of this veterans' data and the fact an employee would put it at risk by taking it home in violation of our policies," he said. "Upon notification, my first priority was to take all actions necessary to protect veterans from harm."

    ...

    Nicholson's remarks come amid growing outrage from lawmakers over the theft, which involved the birthdates and Social Security numbers of 26.5 million veterans. The VA employee had taken the information home without authorization.
  2. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I am not defending the administration or the people responsible but there's one thing you people need to know:

    This sort of thing happens all the time in all levels of business and government. You wouldn't believe me if I ever told just how unsecure all your personal data is. Just a couple of months ago the Boston Globe delivered the credit card information of their subscribers to everyone in the Worcester area.

    Trust me when I say these sorts of things happen ALL THE TIME. And for every one you know about, there's about a dozen you don't.

    Anyone that doesn't monitor their own credit report regularly is a fool.
  3. ELOrocks17

    ELOrocks17 Guest

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    Well Patters, i see you attended the NEM school of conspiracy threads. This is something i would expect him to post. Bush is fighting 2 wars, Still helping with Katrina and Wilma, now New England is under water, Nuclear threats from Iran. But through all of that, it is your opinion that he has the time and the inclination to make sure the VA database is secure. Give me a friggin break.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Everything is Bush's fault. Jesus, get with the program will you :)
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I'm sure the same computer system was in place while Clinton was in office and the same exact thing could have happened. Unfortunately what Qui Gon said is completely right - most computer systems used internally (by employees) are not adequately secured. I work as a database & reporting analyst, and in almost every company I've worked* for it would have been trivial for me to walk out with a disk containing every credit card number that every customer has ever used. It doesn't make it right, but nor is it a good example of Bush's incompetence.
    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How low do you need to set the bar to exonerate this administration for failures during its watch? It's not responsible for 9/11. It's not responsible for the bad intelligence that sent us into Iraq. It's not responsible for the failure of FEMA during Katrina. It's not responsible for the loss of 26.5 million personal records of veterans. Do you know what responsible means? It means that when something good or bad happens while you're in charge, you get the credit or the blame. Bush is in charge. Bush is responsible. You might argue that some things are beyond his control (and I would agree, given that his brain was probably damaged due to alcoholism and drugs), but he is still in charge. He needs to appoint people who make the government work. Today's Republicans apparently don't know the meaning of responsibility. What a shame.
  7. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Too mixed of a bag, Patters.

    They're not responsible for 9/11.
    They are responsible for lying about Iraq (forget faulty intelligence, they knew the score before they went in there).
    They are partially responsible for the Katrina response.
    They are distantly responsible for the records being stolen (in the sense that blame should always go to the top).

    And they're responsible for a lot more, but the VA records being stolen is a stretch.
    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  8. jeffd

    jeffd Rookie

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    I stubbed my toe this morning... Bush sucks.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I can't wait for the next (D) President so we can blame him for every little thing that happens. This "it happened on Bush's watch" thing has gone WAY too far.
  10. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I gotta give Pujo credit... I don't agree with everything he writes and I am sure he doesn't agree with everything I write, but he could be the single most level-headed, non-partisan person in this group. I respect that :)
  11. ELOrocks17

    ELOrocks17 Guest

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    My theroy is that the records of the vets were stolen by a radical left wing group like Moron.org, or the DU, so they have real names of vets that they can then claim are "Against the war". Every other time, the libs used fake names and imposters to claim that they were vets against the war. Now that they have real names, you can bet that they are going to produce a commercial with the list of vets saying that they want Bush impeached or something else evil. Wait and see.
  12. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I may be a partisan hack, but we just don't have any Libertarians in office for me to be hack-ish about :)
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They're responsible in the sense that blame should always go to the top and in the sense that they were the only ones in a position to prevent those things from happening. You might say that no one could have done better, but I beg to differ. I think no one could have done worse.
  14. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    It's not a matter of nobody doing worse, would anyone have done anything different?

    Like I said before, don't you think this computer system was in place before Bush took office (it's probably been in place since before Bush Sr. took office). Did Clinton order the Veterans Affairs dept to make sure their databases were secure? How do you know this didn't happen because of an undisclosed software vulnerability? (Maybe it's IBM's fault, or Microsoft's).

    I'm starting to agree with some otherwise disagreeable posters here that you are just looking for a chance, any chance, to blame Bush for something.
  15. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I knew it..!! You're a hack just like the rest of us..!! I hereby retract all kind statements I ever made in your direction..!! :D
  16. ELOrocks17

    ELOrocks17 Guest

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    Yeah besides..During Clintons reign of terror, How many top secret computer files were taken from Los Alamos, to shortly turn up in the hands of the Chinese government?
  17. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Patters-
    Unfortunately for you, most people know what responsibility means. Unfortunately, you seem to have some misguided and uneducated concept that EVERYTHING is the fault of the Bush administration.

    1) 9/11 - The fact of the matter is that Bill Clinton could have prevented 9/11 by taking Bin Laden, who was a wanted terrorist at the time and was responsible for the 1993 bombing of the WTC, from the Sudanese government. They approached Clinton how many times? 2-3 times. Each time Clinton refused. Hell, he could have had the CIA go over there and just put a bullet in Bin Laden's head. Its debatable as to whether there was truly anything that the Bush Administration could have done prior to the 9/11 attacks to prevent them. Had the FBI field agent in Arizona brought the one guy in for questioning, that may or may not have prevented one plane from being hi-jacked. It may have just changed the date of the hi-jackings. We don't know and there is no way to accurately speculate. They may have changed the date and, instead, crashed those planes into college football stadiums instead. You know, stadiums filled with 80K-100K people. The devestation from that would have been much worse than what we saw on 9/11.

    2) You keep claiming this bad intelligence garbage. However, all your "heros" on the left who got the same information didn't have a problem supporting Bush in going to war in Iraq. Pretty funny that the same information was being touted by Nancy Pelosi, Madelyne Albright, John Kerry, and Bill Clinton amongst others. Also, its pretty funny how people have ignored the fact that there is an Iraqi Air Force General who has come out and said that Hussein secretly moved a couple hundred tons of chemicals/biologicals out of Iraq prior to our attacking. But, you blame Bush for that also because the US waited 15 months while they tried to get the UN on board and tried to let the inspectors do their jobs. Yet, there is plenty of information out there, now, that says that Hussein taped himself and those tapes have conversations where he laughs at the UN Inspectors and talks about how to hide the stuff from the inspectors.

    Has it been mis-handled since then? Yes. And I won't deny that. The initial troop levels weren't enough. We never should have disbanded the security forces they had. And the plan for rebuilding was flawed. And, please don't mention about Halliburton. Or we will have to talk about all the no-bid contracts that every other President has given out.

    3) FEMA's failure during Katrina is directly the responsibility of Ray Nagin and the Louisiana governor, Kathleen (?) Blanco. You seem to overlook that Bush declared a state of emergency for that area 2-4 (?) days before the hurricane hit. You also seem to overlook that Bush was on the phone several times trying to get Nagin to order a mandatory evacuation. You also don't understand that once activated, FEMA reports to the Governor's office, not the White House. Lastly, you over-look the fact that the evacuation plan that was submitted by Nagin to FEMA was NOT used by Nagin. Also, you over-look the fact that the plan was actually bogus and falsified.

    However, if you want to be 100% thorough, you also need to blame every administration AND CONGRESS going back to Jimmy Carter and you need to blame the moron judge who sided with whatever environmental group that opposed the upgrading of the levee system back in the 1970's.

    4) Why would George Bush be responsible for the employee breaking numerous rules in taking home that information? Do you know for certain that Bush changed ANY rules regarding the Veterans Administration and how they handle information? Do you know if George Bush hired the person that took the information home? Do you know how long that person has worked in the Veterans Administration.

    The problem with YOU, Patters, is that your understanding of the government is severally limited and your bias clouds your ability to actually be rational and look at the root cause of the problems.

    The other problem is that the Mainstream media, outside of FoxNews (Which spins many things in a positive light for Bush), is so left-wing and has such a bias against George Bush, that they don't talk about anything positive that his administration has done.

    Now, don't get me wrong, Bush is no saint. He's cow-towed to the Congress on spending. Spending is at the HIGHEST LEVEL its ever been. And, no, not doing the tax cuts wouldn't have changed anything. Social programs are more funded now than they ever were under Clinton. He's been non-existant on illegal immigration. He's been non-existant on government waste and inefficiency. You need to make sure you put the responsibility where it belongs. He may be the President of the United States and the STIGMA is that he is the most powerful man in the World, but the reality is that isn't the truth.
    Last edited: May 24, 2006
  18. ELOrocks17

    ELOrocks17 Guest

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    Very elloquently spoken!
  19. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good post DaBruinz!
  20. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    It could be more for intimidation factor though, with hate phone calls and letters.

    Somehow a year ago almost everyone in my guard detachment got conscientious objector pamphlets in the mail. Although is was not them MoveOn is known for this all the time, just as bad as Fred Phelps.

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