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More Hate From Those Who Say They Are Hated

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Savage is sort of the equivalent of an Ann Coulter of the left. He's crude and outspoken. He helped coin the offensive meaning of santorum. His It Gets Project is really good and not controversial (except among perhaps homophobes), and he has done some other good things, but obviously that venue was a poor choice for his sensibility. That said, it doesn't sound like he said anything that outrageous, and I agree he should be hit in the face with a pie.
  3. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    If he had stuck to his sensibility he would have been fine. Name calling, marginalizing and belittling kids is what he's supposed to be against isn't it?
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are right-wing Christians who seem to support anti-gay bullying. Many right-wing Christians use the Bible as a basis for excluding gays from anti-bullying protection. I think it's okay to urge people to reject those portions of the Bible that are used to justify homophobia, as well as those portions that have been used in the past to justify everything from sexism to slavery. But, I certainly think he would have done better to speak in a more inclusive way, since there are many Christians who use the Bible to defend gay rights.

    http://www.pfaw.org/rww-in-focus/updated-big-bullies-right-wings-anti-anti-bullying-strategies
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  5. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Right. I think his message took a hit because it appears he offended some kids that were interested in hearing about anti-bullying. He came across as bitter, judgmental and mean spirited which has caused some resentment.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. I think his speech did not serve his cause. Frankly, gays are a minority, so they need to continue working to build alliances. He did not contribute to that, and he had a chance to do so given that young people, even religious ones, tend to be me fairly open minded on the subject that so important to him.
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I never heard of the guy before but who knows maybe he has been bullied a lot himself.......
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no idea if he was bullied. He's well known in gay circles and the alternative press. Generally, I think he's thought of as outrageous and humorous. But his It Gets Better campaign, directed at giving gay hope, is really quite moving. This is an example that you might respect:

    Outserve BAF: It Gets Better (Deployed U.S. Military) - YouTube
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  9. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    why do you bother engage and bandy words with the least read among us?

    Do not feed the trolls, dear moderator. Seriously.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think Harry's anti-gay. I think all our views are somewhat nuanced, even Harry's. Also, I'm a liberal, so I'm an optimistic. I continue to believe that we can save some souls if we keep on trying :)
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    I guess those who walked out find it easier to stick their head in the sand than to try to engage intellectually.

    harry, since you started this thread, was what Savage said incorrect?
  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Not speaking for Harry but the talk was billed as an anti-bullying one. Instead it became for many in the audience an attack on their faith. Some Christians may not agree with gay marriage for example but they also may find bullying someone over it completely unacceptable and would likely stick up for someone receiving that kind of treatment.

    If the speaker was interested in engaging intellectually with the audience from his bully pulpit then he shouldn't insult them by lumping all Christians as bullying thugs. When you tag your talk as anti-bullying and then attack a faith then you are implying that the two are one in the same. Don't put it on the audience. He heckled them. He should practice what he is preaching.
  13. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Harry finally showed some signs of empathy. That's something that should be fed.
  14. patsfan13

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    OF course the hectoring and bullying by the so called 'anti bullying' guy had nothing to do with their behavior...

    :rolleyes:
  15. PatsFanInVa

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    Initial disclaimer: Savage should have had more restraint, since he was supposed to be the grownup there. Now...

    1. Savage says anti-gay bullying is justified by appeals to passages in Leviticus and Romans, and adds that you can safely disregard the (expletive) in the Bible.

    2. A group of offended people walk out

    3. Savage says you can tell the Bible guys in the hall he's done beating up the bible

    4. Savage says “It’s funny as someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansy-assed people react when you push back.”

    What he's pointing out is that gays are beaten routinely, and it's been justified by some by appeals to the bible. His final remark is basically that it's amazing how horribly hurtful people find that assessment, who don't find the beating and taunting gays go through routinely to be hurtful.

    Like I said, he's supposed to be the grownup in the room. On that basis, if for no other reason than that the Righty Echo Chamber Blue Blazer Regulars will feast on it for weeks if not years, he should just have canned it.

    However, I fail to understand how you can say Leviticus does not condemn homosexuality. It does. It's a document of its place and time, and for here and now, it's wrong.

    PFnV
  16. PatsWSB47

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    #12 Jersey

    Do you think he might be harboring a little bigotry of his own? That's how he came across. I seriously doubt that most Christians condone routine beatings of gays. He pushed back on and called some innocent people who went there to be schooled on tolerance pansy asses. I submit that they walked out because they reject marching orders from Leviticus and they weren't going to be held to that identity.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    Honestly, I'm tired of the "attack on our faith" garbage when it comes to religion. If pointing out inconsistencies in how many religious adherents' views of the bible is an "attack," too bad. Do they want to take the bible literally or not? (and that goes for any religion -- if a Muslim extremist wants to claim that criticism of them murdering others in the name of Allah or the quran is an unfair attack, too f*cking bad)

    Holding a religious belief doesn't mean that your views must be respected or that they must be free from criticism.

    As for bullying, where did that occur?

    The only heckling was after they left, from what I saw.

    I guess i'll ask you the same: was what Savage said incorrect? logically inconsistent?

    What I will grant you is that he could, and perhaps should, have not called it "bull****." But, honestly, I'm guessing anybody so thin-skinned as to be upset over the word "bullsh*t" would still have been thin-skinned about the content. We'll never know, of course.
  18. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    What bullying, 13? What did he say that was bullying? or hectoring?

    I know you have a hard time with simple questions, but was what he said incorrect?

    Put some substance behind what you have to say for once :rolleyes:
  19. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    Where did he say, or even imply, that any of them do condone routine beatings of gays? He didn't make any claims about all Christians (at least none I heard).
  20. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I do not see any bullying, if criticizing a book written by men is bullying then this has taken on a whole new dimension..

    People are free to walk out, people are free to stay.. it is free speech. Religion is all regurgitated superstition for people too weak to live as free thinking human beings in peace with each other.

    These are journalism students, Dan Savage is a well known commentator and supporter of gay rights, he publishes national commentary in many newspapers, including the Seattle times, entitled "Savage Love"...

    So these students who aspire to be journalists, know what this guy is probably gonna say go to the seminar and walk out.. enraged??? God forbid what journalism is going to look like in 20 years from now..

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