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More good news. But how will Harry Reid and the surrenderists respond?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Jul 31, 2007.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    U.S. Toll in Iraq Lowest in 8 Months


    BAGHDAD (AP) - The U.S. military said Tuesday that a Marine was killed in fighting west of the capital, pushing the American death toll for July to at least 75, the lowest in eight months.

    An Apache helicopter also went down Tuesday after coming under fire in a predominantly Shiite area in eastern Baghdad, but both crew members were safely evacuated, the military said.

    President Bush's nominee to head the Joint Chiefs of Staff, meanwhile, acknowledged that slow progress in Iraq is hurting America's credibility and emboldening Iran's regional ambitions.

    While steady progress has been made on the military front, Iraq's political factions have made only limited headway in achieving reconciliation, said Navy Adm. Michael Mullen, who has been nominated to replace U.S. Gen. Peter Pace as the nation's top military officer.

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QNJTMG1&show_article=1



    Looks like the U.S. forces have done a better job than their hosts are doing. Sure, it's costly to keep holding the hands of these disparate Iraqi factions, but it beats the alternative: total and utter chaos, and a claim of "victory" by the nut case fanatics.



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  2. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Only 75 Americans killed this month! We should throw a party! Just don't invite the families of those 75 soldiers, they might not be inclined to call that "good news".

    I guess since a soccer victory is proof to you that our Iraq strategy is working, I can see how you'd see 75 dead Americans as a good thing. By the way, Fogbuster, like mikey, is using dead soldiers to further his agenda. I can't wait for Qui Gon to show up and take him to task!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2007
  3. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Some people always see the glass as half empty, eh, Puj.

    How many U.S. servicemen died in WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam??? Iraq is less important??

    "If we had known in 1930 what Hitler was going to do eventually, we should have killed him then."


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  4. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Yes, Iraq is WAY less important. Not that I consider Vietnam terribly important either, but compared to WWII Iraq is a game... where real people really die.
     
  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Iraq is NO game. It symbolizes the entire negative energy of militant Islam against the West. If the U.S. and Coalition run away from Iraq, the West will be swallowed up by a combination of Islam, radicalized South and Central Americans, and the Chinese. Russia will not ignore America's weakness, either, and would also be in that feeding frenzy mix.

    Make no mistake: Iraq is the front line between militant extremist Islam and the Western world.


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  6. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Canada is the front line.

    Why Canada?

    I don't know. Why Iraq?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2007
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Where's the Jedi Master and all his melodramatic friends? You call Mikey a POS when he does this, but not one of your own chickenhawks? I guess it depends on the source and perceived intent, right? If you're a war pig, then you can shout about dead soldiers...even put their deaths in a positive light, just as long as you're in favor of continuing the carnage.

    What a bunch of gutless clowns!:mad:

    Oh, by the way, Buster...do you have counts on how many soldiers lost limbs and need to be fit with a prosthesis? How about brain injuries? Deafness or blindness? Are we celebrating those numbers, too. You're the new scorekeeper, ...let's have it!:mad:
     
  8. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    We should not be measuring our progress by how many casualties we take at any given time.

    Using low casualties to try to advace a political point, when there actually are some, is as deplorable as Mikey and others using high casulaties to rejoice over their political agenda winning.

    Progress can be measured only by security advancements and political advancements. Now there are signs that the security situation is improving and that is good news. Hopefully that will be followed up with some progress onthe Iraqi political front.

    It's great that casualties are lower but if it is not accompanied by security progress, it doesn't mean much.
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    reminds me of the 60's when every week in the corner of the newspaper there was a little caption of how many US soldiers died and how many NVN died, it was usually something like 100 US died to 4000 NVA died. My views that any war of agression is unjustified were formulated.. to talk about how many died is very macabre and not a barometer of anything except sadness for american families.. but consider this from someone who takes glee in arranging foreign maidens to get married to old Uni geizers.. reminds me of another religiion.
     
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Pro Bowl Player

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    #80 Jersey

    The war is a lie.

    Denial of that fact means you are being loyal to an administration, and not your country.

    I will celebrate when the # of americans killed in Iraq is zero.

    75 americans killed is somehow "GOOD news"? Check ya head.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2007
  11. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Well said. I agree with what is good news, etc. I only disagree with your baseline standard
     
  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    you know, Fog... i know you're the antithesis of a journalist, but generally, when putting quotes around a phrase, you should provide the source of who's actually saying it... otherwise, it just appears like you're making things up... again...
     
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    wHAT DOES THAt mean?
     
  14. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    Because a person does not think we should be committed to a war, does that make the person surrenderous? I guess a lot of statesmen, generals, and Presidents fall into that category, including Lincoln, who said he supported the troops but not the war.
     
  15. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Lincoln absolutely supported the war effort; he did everything he could to ensure the integrity of the Union. He even gave his life for it, as it was a Confederate sympathizer, John Wilkes Booth, who shot Lincoln.

    The point is: avoid the war if at all possible. Do everything short of prostituting one's self to avoid war and bloodshed. Even give money and other support if your foe is poor and in need.

    But once the war has begun, it must be concluded in the way that will allow for the highest standards to remain. And having committed to a war, the U.S. is obligated to conclude the conflict with the highest possible rule in Iraq. Just running away now in the midst of the chaos will practically guarantee that anti-Western interests seize control of Iraq. It's a virtual certainty that would happen due to the perception of U.S. "weakness". The one thing people absolutely do not want is for their government to be weak, or even to be perceived as weak.



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  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The question is, How do you win the war? When the US pulls out, it will still have the opportunity to work with and bring the various factions together. The US role may include advisers, economic aid, and even troops if a UN peacekeeping effort could be put together. The US, having destroyed Iraq and killed tens of thousand of people, will certainly have a moral responsibility to help that country rebuild, and therein lies our opportunity to establish a reasonably friendly government (at probably considerably less human or economic expense than the current adventure).

    Like many of those who oppose the war, I think each day it goes on we create more enemies for ourselves, not fewer. I think, you, Fog, intentionally fall for the terrorist propaganda that the west will show it's weak if it pulls out. It takes a strong person to do the right thing, even if your enemies also think it's the right thing. There is no doubt in my mind that if your worst fears prove correct, we could always go back in or use air power to inflict damage on military installations. There is no doubt in my mind that the war is being used by our enemies against us and has led to such anger that we've created more terrorists than when we started.
     
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I think you're playing devil's advocate here, and you're not really so moronic as to believe there is a comparison between Fogbuster and little mikey. mikey gloats with glee over each American casualty or setback. His thinly veiled hatred of the U.S. military comes to the forefront when he accuses innocent soliers of murdering Pat Tillman.

    In contrast, Fogbuster is glad that we are making progress in the region and that casualties are getting lower. I know you and mikey hate to hear we are actually succeeding because you hate George Bush more than you hate al Qaeda and other terrorists who want to kill you.

    Don't worry.... I know you're just being a belligerent ass and you're not so moronic as to think Fogbuster and mikey's comments are the same.
     
  18. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    See my response to Pujo. While I gave Pujo credit for being devil's advocate and not being so moronic as to compare mikey and Pujo, I cannot say I have the same hopes for you.
    Geez... someone comes in here and is happy that conditions in Iraq are getting better and the local liberal unintelligentsia goes absolutely berserk..!!

    It must just piss you off to no extent that things have gotten better in Iraq, doesn't it...? Like many of your liberal brethren, you hate Bush more than you hate the terrorists.
     
  19. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    Ah..... wrong, this is an excerpt out of "Team Of Rivals". "The Democratic Illinois State Regiter charged that Lincoln had disgraced his district with his "treasonable assault upon President Polk", calimed that "henceforth" he would be known as "Benedict Arnold,"..... Lincoln sought to clarify his position, arguing that although he had challenged the instigation of the war, he had never voted against supplies for the soldiers. To accept Polk's position without question, he claimed ,was to "allow the President to invade a neighboirng naiton.....whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary."

    I would say that is the same position many Democrats and some Republicans are taking in the War in Iraq. People that support the Iraq War can spin this all they want, but Lincoln's position should send chills up Bush's spine.
     
  20. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I am playing devil's advocate in that I don't really think Fogbuster wants troops to die to prove a point, but I'm not playing devil's advocate in pointing out that him and mikey are doing the same thing. Neither do I believe mikey is gloating over soldiers' deaths, they're just both using them to prove the point they want to prove. The only difference is one is pro-war and one is against, and to you that makes one a traitor while the other's a hero.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2007

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