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More CBA sloppiness: what UFAs can the final four teams sign?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by ctpatsfan77, Jan 19, 2010.

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  1. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    One of the things we've been suggesting is that BB might trade Adalius Thomas just to keep him away from the JEST.

    Looking over the CBA, I'm not sure—not convinced, as you'll see—they can sign him easily. Here's who the top four teams can sign (emphasis mine):

    Now here's the sloppiness:

    So, are players who've had their contracts terminated considered to have gone through the waiver system or not? A cursory reading of the paragraph above suggests that they're not, but, OTOH, it doesn't explicitly confirm or deny that they earned UFA status "as a result of the waiver system."
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010
  2. Urgent

    Urgent In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    Assuming there is no cap, there is also not much of a penalty to holding onto players like Adalius Thomas until the last week of training camp.

    Certainly up until drafted players are signed, the only constraint is the 80-man roster limit, and that's not hard to manage. Since the team doesn't need any cap space, and because real money doesn't change hands until the season starts, there is an incentive to hold onto players like this in hopes that some team will offer a late-round draft choice.

    A trading team would pick up Adalius Thomas for a $4.9mm 2010 salary on a two-year deal ($5.9mm in 2011, per Miguel), with no penalty for an early release. Given the extreme lack of available free agents, it is possible some other team would be interested. If not, the Patriots can release him after the draft, or during training camp.
     
  3. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, every player is subject to the waiver system from the trading deadline to, this year, February 8th? so the only period in question would be the one between February 8th and March 5th.
     
  4. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Yes. 10 characters.
     
  5. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    Not to be facetious, but how do you know that?
     
  6. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    1.)Past experience. When teams have released a veteran before the trading deadline, those players immediately became eligible to sign with any other team. If my take is wrong, you should then be able to point to instances where a vet was released before the trading deadline and then claimed by another team on waivers.

    2.) Because of what happened with Keyshawn and the Buccaneers. When 4 year and more vets like Keyshawn are released after the trading deadline, they can be claimed through the waiver process. That is why the Bucs did not release Keyshawn.
     
  7. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    You didn't actually answer my question, then.

    My question is this: If a vested veteran is released at a point in time when he is not subject to the waiver wire, is he considered to have gained UFA status "as a result of the waiver system"? (The paragraph I quoted clearly states that a player released after the trade deadline is subject to the waiver system, which is why I think it's a reasonable question.)
     
  8. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Whenever a player is released, he goes through the waiver system.

    Look at the paragraph title:)
     
  9. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    Then why make this distinction?

     
  10. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    What is the conflict? There are two different conditions.

    As I read it, one paragraph is for players released after the trade deadline and one released after the season. It stands to reason that players released after the trade deadline be subject to being claimed to prevent playoff bound teams from acquiring talent at the end of the season to fill injury holes.

    I don't see a conflict at all, but anyway, when was the last time a quality player was released after the trade deadline? Steve martin maybe in 2002? The only players that get released after the trade deadline are for practice squad jockeying.

    But either way, using your example of Adalius, the Jets could sign him. If AD is released in February, he is a free agent and they could sign him immediately. If he is released today, and clears waivers for the teams with more priority than the Jets, then they can claim him.

    Exactly what is your issue? Could you explain it better?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010
  11. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    The issue is what the CBA means by "acquiring [UFA] status as a result of the NFL waiver system."

    Specifically, does a player who has enough years to be an unrestricted free agent actually go through the waiver system, or is he just 'declared a free agent' without passing through the waiver system.

    If it's the former, then any UFA who is released is fair game for the top four teams. If it's the latter, then the only UFAs the top four teams can sign are younger players (i.e., ones who must go through the waiver system every time they are released).

    If it's the former, then the JEST could sign Adalius Thomas without restrictions if the Pats release him. If it's the latter, then they could only sign him after losing a FA who signs a larger contract than the one he signs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2010
  12. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    To highlight the difference between the two time periods.

    Bottom line - A player who has enough years to be an unrestricted free agent goes through the waiver system and is declared a free agent immediately if he is released before the trading deadline.

    My take is backed up by recent history.
     
  13. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Nicely worded.
     
  14. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    Except that until a potential uncapped year, when has it made a difference whether or not they officially pass through the waiver system or not?
     
  15. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Johnson's time in Tampa appears over - NFL - ESPN

    It always mattered in signing bonus acceleration.
    "For any player removed from the Team’s roster, or whose Contract is assigned to another Club via waivers or trade, on or before June 1 in any League Year prior to the Final Capped Year, or at any time during
    the Final Capped Year, any unamortized signing bonus amounts will be included in Team Salary for such League Year, except that for each League Year preceding the Final Capped Year, each Club may designate up
    to two Player Contracts that, if terminated on or prior to June 1 and if not renegotiated after the last regular season game of the prior League Year, shall be treated (except to the extent prescribed by Section 7(d)(iii)
    below) as if terminated on June 2, i.e., the Salary Cap charge for each such contract will remain in the Club’s Team Salary until June 2, at which time its Paragraph 5 Salary and any unearned LTBE incentives will no longer be counted and any unamortized signing bonus will be treated as set forth in Subsection (2) below. If acceleration puts a Team over the Salary Cap, the Team will have seven days to conform with the Salary Cap,
    but may not sign any players until there is Room to do so under the Salary Cap."

    It always mattered in determining when a released player can sign with another team.

    It is only in the Waiver System Article that the CBA addresses the issue how the release of the players are supposed to be processed as regards to the waiver claim process.
     
  16. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    The paragraph you quoted is not applicable because, in an uncapped year, you don't earn UFA status with 4 years of service. You have to have 6 years of service.

    Also, based on previous years, players do not have to clear waivers if they are released (cut/have their contract terminated) after the end of the season but prior to the start of free agency. And it hasn't mattered who they were. I believe that the waiver system is only in place from

    To answer your question about the Jets. With how badly Ryan threw Thomas under the bus 2 years ago, it's unlikely that they will be talking to one another.
     
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