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More Bush administration incompetence

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, Bush lovers, who do you blame for this one: the Bush administration that set up the Department of Homeland Security or the contractors? Or can you find a way to deny responsibility, as you often do, and blame Clinton? Good luck!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060727/pl_nm/security_contracts_dc_1

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A dependence on no-bid contracts and inadequate oversight have contributed to extensive waste and misspending at the Department of Homeland Security, The Washington Post reported on Thursday, citing a congressional investigation.

    In the latest report on the agency's spending, U.S. government investigators found problems involving "significant overcharges" or "mismanagement" in 32 DHS contracts worth a total of $34 billion, the Post said.

    The findings were to be released on Thursday. The Washington Post said it had obtained a copy of the report.

    According to the newspaper, the bipartisan congressional report says an explosion of no-bid deals and a critical shortage of government contract managers created a system prone to abuse.
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No defense from this quarter. Most conservatives predicted this from the get go. Large centralized groverment programs like this are prone to overspending. Too bad libs don't apply the same standards to the massively wasteful social programs they cherish.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2005
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure what evidence you have that social programs are massively wasteful, unless of course you simply oppose helping the needy. Your claim sounds like a conservative talking point, nothing more.
  4. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar Rookie

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LDavUG54n0&search&=nuke#

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4TPmfW5PS0&search=Bush Politics#

    $$$$$$$$$320 BILLION IN IRAQ NO WMD's Democracy propped up by the U.S. and without us, it's not looking promising.....At least were building schools, you know how the liberal media never talks about schools in the U.S.or IRAQ

    $$$$$$$$$$$34 BILLION SQUANDERED IN D.H.S., That video of bush and the nuke right below you is Enlightening now? ehhhhh CLINTONS FAULT....
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well if we look at the War on Poverty Trillions have been spent with result of more single mothers and many children being born into an underclass that is trapped by the poverty bureauracy.

    That has been a demonstrable failure.
  6. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I read all the time about the fraud & waste that happens with government social programs. You're living in la-la land if you think that all the money that's supposed to go helping the poor & needy actually gets to them. These departments hire their family members as expensive consultants, use government credit cards for personal purchases, and abuse the system just like in every other aspect of government. It's not like the people who want to enrich themselves at our expense would purposly avoid certain government departments.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Look at the words of the late Pat Monihan, your partisan nonsense has nothing to do with the porblems caused by these disasterous programs, this is a 40 year old failure not any particular administration.
  8. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    So you're technically right... but that's not what the conversation was about.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course there's fraud and waste, but I'm not sure how massive it is relative to the size of the programs. I've known many people in government and business, and have found them to be quite honest. Plus, there are quite a few checks in big government agencies thanks to various scandals of the past.
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So why do think the DHS would be different????

    This involved a lot of pork for the "first responders" ie the city workers unions, and we know who they support politically. Most conservatives understood why the politics happened and weren't infavor of it. I would rather have more for the military to kill the terrorist. The best defense is a good offense.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 31, 2005
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mostly because I think Bush has been utterly incompetent with regard to getting things done and with regard to spending money.

    Are you just making it up or do you have evidence? Actually, I think your point is a bit ridiculous since unions don't negotiate contracts. Employers do.

    As long as its your kids not dying over there, I suppose it's easy to be for war for some people. And as long as you look at war like a football game, you can safely insulate yourself from the price of war.
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I went into the military as did my brother I don't need to be lectured by you about other peoples kids dying, I have first hand experience of my friends I served with being wounded and killed.

    You OTOH apparently don't understanding the concept of sacrificing for your country you get to sit in the peanut gallery and criticize those who protect you sorry butt.
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    patsfan13, I do understand the concept of sacrifice, but I also understand that the military teaches people that they are always fighting for a good cause and that their sacrifices are always for their country. Those are lessons that soldiers want to believe, especially when asked to go into battle. But, when you're not a soldier (and I presume you're not any more) it makes more sense to think as a member of the public than as a member of the military. The military has its own perspective, part of which is necessitated to maintain loyalty and focus and part which is a byproduct of living the military life.
  14. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey
    My big disappointments with Bush and the Republicans in general are.

    1. Too much spending. The republicans in control of the congress are no better than the Dems when it comes to pork projects. We have a war to fight and they are spending on stupid projects and some agencies are as badly mismanaged as they were when the Dem's had them.

    2. Not securing our boarders and ports. After 9/11 there should have been a draft of 150,000 - 200,000. These draftees would not have been part of our regular military but used to seal our boarders and ports. The money saved on illegal alien programs would have paid for that.

    3. Not reforming Social Security and Medicare. Both programs are going broke and we can't be feeding them with higher taxes.

    4.Tax reform. Have a flat tax combined with a national sales tax.

    5. Not standing up for a national energy policy which would include more drilling (yes, in the Artic), more refineries, and more nuclear power plants. All this, while hybrids develope as a viable alternative to gas powered vehicle.

    6. Not firing Rumsfeld. He did not plan well enough for after the military victory over Saddam's army.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Waste and over spending are symptoms of a bloated government - period. There is absolutely no partisan differences as Clinton and Bush have so aptly demonstrated for the last 14 years. Poverty continues to rise, working folks don't go to the doctor because they can't afford it, and the world is going to hell again. This country has the ability to make a difference for itself and the world, but it refuses to address the core problem: Not big government - ENORMOUS GOVERNMENT!
  16. patsfan13

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    I agree on all these points. I would however attribute 3,4,5 to fillibusters in the Senate and the wussy RINO;s in the Senate.
  17. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    And its gotten bigger in the past 5 years than in any point in our modern history...by any measure. More spending than at any point in the Democratic-majority Congresses of past, more corruption, more pork.

    Yet, those unfaithful to their party's roots still vote for these pseudo-conservatives for one of three reasons:

    1) they are willfully ignorant of politics and vote against their own interest, based on some snake oil salesmen pitch from the enormous GOP campaign coffers

    2) they are profiting enormously from the redistribution of wealth under Bush's imperialism

    3) they are religious fanatics and devoid of any independant thought
  18. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey
    Do you have any idea how stupid your reasons sound? Not only stupid but very arrogant.
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Trying to say it is worse now than before is nonsense. Not to let the pubies off the hook here, they are guilty as charged. Currently spending as a % of GDP is lower than during the salad days of the Clinton era. This is a result of the Growth of the economy overall.

    The difference between the left and right is we'll criticize our guys when the don't do the right thing, the left always spins. This thread is a prime example. The righties have criticized the Bush spending policies the lefties spin how they were better when at best it is a push when it comes to enlarging goverment (I am being extremely generous here).
  20. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Bull, my man, bull. I see some conservatives spin facts all the time, and I see some liberals do the same. They're both called 'dishonest', and they're dishonest because they have something to gain (they're making money from their politics). But there's nothing in our limited life experiences that could convince me that "more liberals" or "more conservatives" do it, you just pay attention to one over the other.
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  21. All_Around_Brown

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    Stupid platform the GOP has taken, isn't it? I prefered them when they were for small govt, accountability, and fiscal restraint.

    Now, when they need votes they either use religious zealotry, bigotry, or outright falsehoods.

    So, which of the three do you fit into?
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2005
  22. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    On this thread you were honest enough to admit that the money in the 'poverty' programs goes to waste, pork and the bureaucracy rather than the poor. Props to you for that. However I haven't seen the type of criticism of the dems and their policies, on other threads that I have seen of the pubbies by conservatives on this thread. If not give me an example of some of the lefties wandering from the party line.
  23. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My Jersey:

    If you're going to distort data and make things up, it's going to be difficult to discuss things with you. You keep throwing things out there, without backing them up.

    Beginning in the 1990s, Clinton brought federal outlays as a percent of GDP down, and then Bush brought them back up starting in 2000. Here's a nice, conservative Cato Institute report to back up my claim:

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp87.pdf

    And you just spun, and you keep spinning in your previous sentences. The difference between the left and right is we know when we're playing political games, while you delude yourself into believing you're honest.

    The righties have been forced to criticize Bush because the spending has gotten so out of hand. If you checked threads from a few years ago, you would have seen numerous explanations, including blaming the Clnton recession, attributing it to necessary spending for the war on terror, and so on. The fact is the facts are so against you on this one that the righties are having trouble deluding themselves any longer.
  24. All_Around_Brown

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    But the best part of this is watching them continue to try...

    Its really quite amusing. Its as if they know they've been swindled, and keep coming back for more.

    Isn't that like the abused wife syndrome? Splains these peoples personalities perfectly.

    They are so scared they are sucking their thumbs and hoping Bush makes the pain stop.
  25. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Couple of things here... first, the Republicans are a riper target for critisism because their party is in power. The 90's had a very different feel - Clinton and the Dems took more of the heat. I don't like the Democratic party (I'm a member of the LP), but I feel like I'm temporarily more aligned with them because the enemy of your enemy is your friend. Second, nothing done by any poster on this board (or even all posters combined) makes the example valid for all liberals and conservatives. This is one, small group of people with their own idiocincracies and doesn't extrapolate well to America at-large.
  26. All_Around_Brown

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    Pujo...I think you need a correction.

    Like me, you identify more with Dems not because the enemy of your enemy is your friend...the GOP is not the enemy, although the Bush version which distorted conservatism so badly is.

    The real reason you ID with Dems is because the only thing worse than a two party system is a one party system...which encroaches in areas of authoritarianism. I'm sure you know what Im talking about given your experience and broad world view. That and the fact that you've lived it to some extent, I would think.
  27. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey
    Insightful as usual.:eek:

    Now, tell us 5 things about the liberal Dem's that you don't like or are disappointed with.
  28. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey
    I thought this was about Incontinence :rofl:
    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 1, 2005
  29. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey
    Nothing to debate. I just don't agree with any of your "red" comments.

    I listed things that I was unhappy or disagreed with Bush & the Rep's.

    I then asked you to list 5 things that you were unhappy or disagreed with the Dem's. And, you replied that I didn't reply to your reply.

    List your 5 things if you want to. I'll see you on the football forum-NO POLITICS.

    Parting Shot:

    Here's another disagreement I have with Bush/cons- abortion. I think it should be legal for all liberal women so they don't raise liberal children.
  30. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey
    So, let me get this straight. Because the media is reporting things that are happening under the Bush Administration, you think its never happened before? You think that there haven't been mismanagement issues on other government contracts? That is par for the course. Its been one of the problems with the Federal Government for DECADES. This is nothing new.

    Hey, I have a bridge in Nebraska for sale. Would you like to buy it?

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