Molden Was Beat But VY Gave Him a Gift

[shmessy]

Damn it.

I'm done reading another potentially interesting thread after only one page, yet again.

Someone brings up the rational argument that we've been fortunate play a string of backup/sh*tty qbs and that it's important to remain cautiously optimistic that our defense is improving as much as it looks like it is.

Another valid point is made that it even though some plays we made on Sunday were by the skin of our teeth and could have gone the other way, revisionist history week by week isn't a fair way to look at games and we did actually make those plays.

You'd think some interesting discussion would ensue.

Instead, both sides get pissy and it becomes an argument about how spoiled our fans are.

Sweet.

I know.

I didn't start this thread to say "Molden sucks" at all. I found a very interesting video on youtube that was shot by a fan in the stands that showed an interesting different angle on the play that shed a different light on the play. I thought it was interesting how much separation the WR had gotten on Molden.

Anyone who thinks Vince Young threw that pass competently isn't watching the video.

I like Molden. He and Adams have performed above and beyond all expectations. I posted several times last week that he never got the the credit he deserved for the block that sprang Edelman on his TD return. That block was responsible for 7 points.

For some reason this clueless Ivan, who came aboard here July, wants to label me "Mr. Negativity" about this team - - Yup, that's me! Only Andy Johnson and Patsnutme have been called a "Homer" more often than I have over the years.

Good to have you aboard, Ivan. Next time, be a big boy and argue the point (like Ken did) instead of uselessly hijacking a thread into a personal debate.

 

[shmessy]

You are way over critical her Shmess. But in one sense you are right if VY had thrown the perfect pass like he did earlier, it would have been completed......just like every other pass ANY QB throws in the game. There IS no way a DB can defend a perfectly thrown pass.

However, after looking at the clip several times I think played it perfectly. I would contend that he was in man coverage on the WR and his proper technique would be to play the man from the underneath position with expected help over the top from the S. If you want to criticize someone, look at the S. I would say he was a bit late getting over there

BTW-what would YOU say would have been the correct position. If he stayed deeper than the WR, then he''d never be in position to cover ANY back shoulder fades, deep hooks, or in cuts, By playing the "under" position he's be in much better position to cover those 3 routes, and like I said before there should be S help over the top, but whoever the safety was on that play (I think Moore) didn't get deep enough in his drop and was a bit late breaking to the sideline.

BTW- in the long pass to Cooper early in the game. I've see replays and if you notice Arrington COULD have stayed deep the Cooper, but decided to be aggressive and by choice undercut him to take the inside position, and was beaten by the perfect pass. Anything less, and Arrington would have had a pick. If you get a chance to see a replay of that play I think you'll agree with me.

Now HERE'S an on the subject response that makes me reconsider whether Molden was actually out of position on the play.

Leave it to Ken to make a cogent point and stick to the subject.

I agree now that it MAY have been purposeful coverage underneath with the expectation of over the top help from the Safety. If that is what was planned then Molden was exactly where he should have been. The fact that the safety never shows up, though, gives me cause to think either that wasn't the plan or merely that it was a miscommunication in the secondary.

As you say, however, Young completely gift wrapped that interception by throwing it way underneath.

 

[robbomango]

I know.

I didn't start this thread to say "Molden sucks" at all. I found a very interesting video on youtube that was shot by a fan in the stands that showed an interesting different angle on the play that shed a different light on the play. I thought it was interesting how much separation the WR had gotten on Molden.

That's the perception I got about the thread/video, others took it as an attack on the D. anyways cool vid

 

[102 Pat]

holy fudging shat puck.. we are at this point around here?

I'm waiting for someone to start a thread complaining about Edelman's tackling on defence...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Now HERE'S an on the subject response that makes me reconsider whether Molden was actually out of position on the play.

Leave it to Ken to make a cogent point and stick to the subject.

I agree now that it MAY have been purposeful coverage underneath with the expectation of over the top help from the Safety. If that is what was planned then Molden was exactly where he should have been. The fact that the safety never shows up, though, gives me cause to think either that wasn't the plan or merely that it was a miscommunication in the secondary.

As you say, however, Young completely gift wrapped that interception by throwing it way underneath.

That is what they were expecting with VY starting. Situational football. They were geared up to stop McCoy although the DB's were also coached to not allow Vince to beat them over the top. Bill talked about the fact that early on guys weren't doing what they were supposed to, specifically the safeties were biting on play action rather than maintaining their responsibilities over the top. They got that rectified after a couple of series... Which despite all their all world talent was something Andy Reid's defense was unable to do... Our defensive game plan was stop the run and contain VY and let him try and beat you thru the air because he makes too many poor throws and bad decisions to... Not sure what the Eagles defensive game plan was...beyond get to Brady. And once we gauged their approach and adjusted the protection and it didn't work...they were toast.

Vince Young didn't give Molden a gift beyond being Vince Young. And frankly I don't think Vick would have fared that much better because his gifts don't exactly translate to all world at the position, either...despite how badly many seem to want them to.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

You are way over critical her Shmess. But in one sense you are right if VY had thrown the perfect pass like he did earlier, it would have been completed......just like every other pass ANY QB throws in the game. There IS no way a DB can defend a perfectly thrown pass.

However, after looking at the clip several times I think played it perfectly. I would contend that he was in man coverage on the WR and his proper technique would be to play the man from the underneath position with expected help over the top from the S. If you want to criticize someone, look at the S. I would say he was a bit late getting over there

BTW-what would YOU say would have been the correct position. If he stayed deeper than the WR, then he''d never be in position to cover ANY back shoulder fades, deep hooks, or in cuts, By playing the "under" position he's be in much better position to cover those 3 routes, and like I said before there should be S help over the top, but whoever the safety was on that play (I think Moore) didn't get deep enough in his drop and was a bit late breaking to the sideline.

BTW- in the long pass to Cooper early in the game. I've see replays and if you notice Arrington COULD have stayed deep the Cooper, but decided to be aggressive and by choice undercut him to take the inside position, and was beaten by the perfect pass. Anything less, and Arrington would have had a pick. If you get a chance to see a replay of that play I think you'll agree with me.

ken nails it.

expecting consistent, perfect 60 yard bombs in not a high percentage formula.

That's kinda why they are not thrown on every play.

 

[stcjones]

Why stop at Painter?

Tebow,Grossman or Beck,Moore and Fitzpatrick aren't making any Defense scared either,the piss poor QB train rolls well into January.

If the Pats get a bye and Oakland or Houston wins their opening playoff game then it might be until the AFCCG until a QB emerges that is a challenge to a poor defense.

I think Moore actually has been playing better over the past several weeks (hence their 3 wins) Didn't get it done this past week of course.....but doophins will probably give us a tough game. Remember,ANY given Sunday...

 

[supafly]

I think Moore actually has been playing better over the past several weeks (hence their 3 wins) Didn't get it done this past week of course.....but doophins will probably give us a tough game. Remember,ANY given Sunday...

I'm not too worried about their offense, but their defense has been one of the best in the NFL in the past 5 weeks. As of Thursday afternoon, they had not given up a touchdown in a MONTH.

Even though most will assume the MIA game to be an easy win, their defense has been one of the best in the NFL in the past 5 games, if not the best.

Denver is another game that I am not worried at all about their offense, but their defense has been playing lights out.

As long as we can keep Brady protected, I think going up against some of the stingier defenses in the league can be a plus heading into the stretch run.

 

[Ivan]

I know.

I didn't start this thread to say "Molden sucks" at all. I found a very interesting video on youtube that was shot by a fan in the stands that showed an interesting different angle on the play that shed a different light on the play. I thought it was interesting how much separation the WR had gotten on Molden.

Anyone who thinks Vince Young threw that pass competently isn't watching the video.

I like Molden. He and Adams have performed above and beyond all expectations. I posted several times last week that he never got the the credit he deserved for the block that sprang Edelman on his TD return. That block was responsible for 7 points.

For some reason this clueless Ivan, who came aboard here July, wants to label me "Mr. Negativity" about this team - - Yup, that's me! Only Andy Johnson and Patsnutme have been called a "Homer" more often than I have over the years.

Good to have you aboard, Ivan. Next time, be a big boy and argue the point (like Ken did) instead of uselessly hijacking a thread into a personal debate.

Actually it wasn't personal to you in any way but more a matter of seeing yet another thread picking away at the defense after another win, which i'm tired of. As for turning it into a pissing contest that credit goes to douche irae who turned the topic to ballwashers vs douchebags, of which he is the head douche.

 

[Ivan]

Both your claims are misrepresentations of what I've posted. I took no offense to you comment. I noted the incongruity of it given your whine. As for the "thousands...." I've called out some small number here who almost never see even the most obvious issues as anything but unicorns and pixie dust the "over the top" homers, etc...

Most people are more willing to see the warts on a team. The interesting aspect of your post is that you're crying about people who take the time to post about their favorite football team on a messageboard as if they fail some purity test of yours. I've got news for you: you're crying about some of the most passionate fans the team has, just because they aren't willing to buy into every "Darius Butler was a great pick!" thread.

Big difference between limiting it to those who call Darius Butler great, which no-one does, and calling those who don't agree they suck Jonestown, which you did just a few short days ago. No misrepresentation at all and if it were only a few you wouldn't have told the other poster not to latch onto you because you are the atrget of all those Jonestown fans. Nice try though.

 

[TomPatriot]

Molden is playing the correct trail technique in a cover 1 look which is exactly why he got the interception! He is responsible for the underneath and the high safety is responsible for over the top help.

You will see the single high safety look (top of the screen with corners in press, and that we are in a 44 reduced stack (middle backers in 40 tech), but the important thing to notice is that the play itself is a well executed play action which is why Moore as the SHS gets such a late start on trying to get on top of the play. Nobody made any mistakes here except Young, but if you were to nitpick, I think Moore could have broke as soon as he saw Young look strongside, because Young isn't going to play sophisticated football and trap you with fake looks like Brady does.

There are ten Eagles on the screen when the play starts. Young saw eight in the box with a cover 1 and I suspect the WR you can't see (bottom right) also went on a fly so Moore had to worry about two receivers deep more than the play action. It's the most common way for an offense to beat a cover 1. No safety makes that play. That's Molden's guy and I think his technique was mediocre because even though he was inside underneath, he wasn't close enough to the receiver. He hustled to try to recover but a good throw beats him.

 

[FCB02062]

and what's your point? at least Molden made the play...Brady gifted Buffalo a few interceptions earlier in the season, too...what comes around goes around in the NFL....

 

[Patspsycho]

There are ten Eagles on the screen when the play starts. Young saw eight in the box with a cover 1 and I suspect the WR you can't see (bottom right) also went on a fly so Moore had to worry about two receivers deep more than the play action. It's the most common way for an offense to beat a cover 1. No safety makes that play. That's Molden's guy and I think his technique was mediocre because even though he was inside underneath, he wasn't close enough to the receiver. He hustled to try to recover but a good throw beats him.

Right, and I think that if you're playing a sophisticated quarterback like Brady, you would be trapped between both go routes, but in the case of Young, I think it's okay to cheat and break as soon as you see where his head turns, because you know Young is not going to bother trying to freeze you with a fake look. We know Young's history of not protecting his receivers (because he telegraphs so badly). That is why Desean Jackson quit on his routes near the end of the game and got benched, not that I blame him- who wants to get beheaded like that?

 

[shmessy]

Actually it wasn't personal to you in any way but more a matter of seeing yet another thread picking away at the defense after another win, which i'm tired of. As for turning it into a pissing contest that credit goes to douche irae who turned the topic to ballwashers vs douchebags, of which he is the head douche.

I made an observation about ONE play.

It wasn't a critique about Molden in general or "picking away at" the defense as a whole.

Relax.

 

[Texxx]

The Pats need to find a replacement for Molden as soon as possible. The guy was never even any good on the Texans and couldn't ever even hold a position there when they had one of the worst defenses in history. He is very injury prone as well. I know that he's a fill in right now, but the Pats need to find someone else that can play better than Molden soon. I don't feel confident with Molden out there going into the playoffs.

 

[RayClay]

The Pats need to find a replacement for Molden as soon as possible. The guy was never even any good on the Texans and couldn't ever even hold a position there when they had one of the worst defenses in history. He is very injury prone as well. I know that he's a fill in right now, but the Pats need to find someone else that can play better than Molden soon. I don't feel confident with Molden out there going into the playoffs.

He doesn't impress me as being very fluid, and i would prefer Adams, but he should eventually be no more than one of the mix and he has good size, so maybe the "big" cornerback role.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The Pats need to find a replacement for Molden as soon as possible. The guy was never even any good on the Texans and couldn't ever even hold a position there when they had one of the worst defenses in history. He is very injury prone as well. I know that he's a fill in right now, but the Pats need to find someone else that can play better than Molden soon. I don't feel confident with Molden out there going into the playoffs.

Spoken like a fan whose #1 team has bigger concerns than depth in the secondary...

I hear Delhomme and Garcia are now on the radar...

 

[Patspsycho]

The Pats need to find a replacement for Molden as soon as possible. The guy was never even any good on the Texans and couldn't ever even hold a position there when they had one of the worst defenses in history. He is very injury prone as well. I know that he's a fill in right now, but the Pats need to find someone else that can play better than Molden soon. I don't feel confident with Molden out there going into the playoffs.

That "someone" is Ras-I Dowling.

 

[Texxx]

Spoken like a fan whose #1 team has bigger concerns than depth in the secondary...

I hear Delhomme and Garcia are now on the radar...

I'm not sure why you're trying to take a shot at my other team simply for pointing out that Molden isn't a good player to be out there on a regular basis. Taking a shot at the Texans who have been smothered with injuries in their first season where they finally looked like contenders is pretty low class especially from a fan that experienced something similar with Brady a few years ago. I hated losing Brady myself that year. Molden was a problem on the Texans for years despite high expectations early on. He was a waste man. He most likely won't be starting next season in NE, but he'll be playing a lot for now and that concerns me. He seems to be out of place a lot when I watch him.

 

[Nunchucks]

Man, if Brady hadn't thrown 4 picks int he Buffalo game, the Patriots would be 9-2...