Missing the point

[loosebearing]

I think that is a little on the harsh side. I agree that BB displays a distaste for the way the NFL regulates the flow of information from the teams (injuries, press conferences, player/coach access, etc.). I don't know if "camera-gate" has anything to do with that but it really doesn't matter. The Pats are a flagship of the NFL and Kraft acts the part. BB generally doesn't. Doesn't bother me in the least.

The part that does both me is that this is being played out in the media and that is the fault of the commish and his office. This all could have played out behind closed doors and a reasoned resolution found. Now it is a circus that can't have a happy ending...only a (hopefully) swift one.

You are correct.

But gee I wonder how it got out. Let me ponder that one. For years all these issues have been handled behind closed doors.

Why now? I wonder?


Oh do you think it might have maybe - just maybe been leaked by Mangini and the JETS !!

 

[PonyExpress]

are you people all insane

do you want to be fair and LOSE

I want a pit bull (no offense) as gm and coach. It is up to Kraft when and if to reign him in or not (to fight him or not)

But as a loyal Red Sox fan - I wish George Steinbrenner own them

BB is the George Patton of coaches. He is a lethal football weapon. He has studied how to win at football for 40 years and his life is dedicated to it. The reason a guy like Dungy doesn't get his hands dirty is that Polian shovels the $hite for him. Anybody who believes you can consistently be #1 for a decade in a league of 32 without gamesmanship has never poked his head into the competitive world. They're either studying for B.A. in "who the f cares" or collecting welfare.

 

[Cannon Arm]

are you people all insane

do you want to be fair and LOSE

I want a pit bull (no offense) as gm and coach. It is up to Kraft when and if to reign him in or not (to fight him or not)

But as a loyal Red Sox fan - I wish George Steinbrenner own them

I'm happy that John Henry doesn't treat any Red Sox player like King George treated Dave Winfield. Fay Vincent rightfully banned him for life and it should have stuck.

 

[Cannon Arm]

BB is the George Patton of coaches. He is a lethal football weapon. He has studied how to win at football for 40 years and his life is dedicated to it. The reason a guy like Dungy doesn't get his hands dirty is that Polian shovels the $hite for him. Anybody who believes you can consistently be #1 for a decade in a league of 32 without gamesmanship has never poked his head into the competitive world. They're either studying for B.A. in "who the f cares" or collecting welfare.

This isn't about "gamesmanship." Using various mindgames and whatnot to psyche out the other team or whatever is fine, as long as it's not prohibited. Belichick blatantly violated a league rule.

 

[Cannon Arm]

You are correct.

But gee I wonder how it got out. Let me ponder that one. For years all these issues have been handled behind closed doors.

Why now? I wonder?


Oh do you think it might have maybe - just maybe been leaked by Mangini and the JETS !!

Just like it was the fault of the Watergate Commission and Woodward and Bernstein that Nixon had to leave the White House in disgrace, eh?

 

[upstater1]

mdhprime, point the finger and others is not owning up to what
you did wrong ... rather what our head coach has done wrong.
pointing fingers doesn't cut it with me.

Every one breaks the speed limit but when you get caught speeding do you
think the judge is going to care if you use that as your defense????

If I were caught going over the speed limit, I would gladly pay my fine, while reminding the officer/judge that just yesterday he made a public announcement that it was ok to go over the speed limit.

In this same fashion, the NFL last year announced that it was OK to alter the competitive balance of a game by stealing signals from a videotape (I'm talking about what Miami did to Brady).

 

[upstater1]

This isn't about "gamesmanship." Using various mindgames and whatnot to psyche out the other team or whatever is fine, as long as it's not prohibited. Belichick blatantly violated a league rule.

Right. He violated the rule against videotaping. But he didn't violate the rule against cheating because there isn't such a rule. The NFL allows it and encourages it.

 

[loosebearing]

I'm happy that John Henry doesn't treat any Red Sox player like King George treated Dave Winfield. Fay Vincent rightfully banned him for life and it should have stuck.

Written like a man on welfare or sits behind a desk for the government.

I doubt your paycheck is dependent on your ability to take a company to the top of its earnings

I own my own company. If I had the attitude of some of these do goodders I'd be broke.

(Plus I meant Steinbrenner instead of Yawkee or the Yawkee Trust)

 

[mgteich]

I don't expect a resolution until late Friday or on Saturday. Kraft and the Commissioner will come out on the same page, with regard to punishment, and with regard to steps going forward. Of course, sooner would be better.

I guarantee that anything that you hear from me is mild compared to what the Krafts are telling Belichick and whoever else has been involved. IMHO, the Commissioner isn't embarrassed, he's pi$$ed. It is Robert Kraft and Jonathan Kraft who are embarrassed. They are NFL leaders, whose employees are misbehaving and being non-cooperative on a regular basis. They have worked with the Commissioner for months to stop exactly this type of behavior and attitude.

The Krafts really, really care about the public relations of the league. Kraft has supported Harrison and Belichick, but the future MUST be different than the past with regard to the team's compliance with the letter and spirit of NFL rules and regulations.

I do want the punishment to be severe. I want this to be behind us. This team is NOT a bunch of substance abusing rule-breakers!!!! Winning at all costs is NOT the motto of the patriots!!!! Given the last month, why should the casual public not believe such characterizations?

This is, and will be, a team crafted by the Krafts. The team is the very BEST there is in sports. They WILL start to act with confidence and humility, rather than arrogance.

Apparently, Belichick didn't understand this as of last Sunday. Belichick WILL understand this by next Sunday, and we will all go forward to the playoffs and the SB.

I was going to post a reply but you did it for me. The reason why we don't have a judgement as of 11:50 ET is that the commissioner is working this out with Kraft. The punishment will be one that Kraft agrees with and will not openly complain about. The CBA comes up again soon and the commish will need Kraft to avoid potential disaster. Everyone but the Jets and the media want this to go away and get the focus back on the games. Expect that to happen any minute now.

 

[Buchanty]

I wish that this media hurricane would pass quickly, because stirred up in the maelstrom are so many accusations and bitterness that we forget that it is just a game of football.

I agree with MDHprime and Pony Express - the Patriots violated an NFL rule (as far as I know it is singular), they have admitted it, apologized and rightly await their punishment. I am disappointed that they broke the rule, just as I was disappointed with Rodney Harrison. But there is no evasion from the simple fact that they violated a rule, and must now face up to the consequences (as I say to my children take it on the chin), which they appear to be doing. And like a parent I will watch them take their medicine, and in doing so confirm that the act cannot be condoned.

I am curious though to the punishment and would have thought that some mention of this would have been included in the letter to teams in the pre-season banning field videotaping. For example if my kids forget to do homework they are pre-warned that their grade will be negatively affected. If they are regularly tardy in high school they are advised that they will be last in line for parking spaces as seniors etc. etc.

The communication must indicate the rule and the likely penalty, though
words like "serious" can provide some clues. It would be nice to see the letter though wouldnt it? If no mention is made then the first punishment cannot be severe or damaging to the team or franchise. It can be used however to establish future penalties and I hope that is what happens.

Everything beyond the simple fact of rule violation is speculation and unsusbtantiated vitriol, though I do wish people would use the english language properly. No one steals signals, the appropriate word is uncover, discover, expose. intercept or unearth. The signallers still have their signals they are just known to more people. And of course everyone does it, though most people call it observation or scouting with some detractors using the pejorative word "spying". But you can't coach in the NFL if you dont have someone spotting the opposing team.... so lets level down the accusations against the Patriots.

Lest it be forgotten football is a highly competitive, and highly sophisticated sport, and we live in a highly technological society. Not only is it obvious that technology will be used on the game for any advantage that can be gained, but it will continue to do so as long as all that is proscribed is individual methods and tools such as videotape. The main problem is you cant make a rule that forbids teams from spotting signals, because not only is it unavoidable it is also impossible to govern.

Finally the NFL does have to be careful with how they proceed, especially with the make up of the competition committee (just how long do these guys stay on the committee?). If the sentence is harsh, then the accusations of competitive advantage will be rung for the committee member's teams.

My closing prayer is that the sentence is fair and quick and we can all move on.

 

[PonyExpress]

This isn't about "gamesmanship." Using various mindgames and whatnot to psyche out the other team or whatever is fine, as long as it's not prohibited. Belichick blatantly violated a league rule.

yes, it is about "gamesmanship", and everyone knows it except those with a far reaching agenda against this team and coach. Gamesmanship is defined as "the use in a sport or game of aggressive, often dubious tactics, to win." Slam dunk. Gamesmanship has been part and parcel of this league for 70 years, and many of the legends of the NFL were its most illustrious practioners, from the Old Giants changing to sneakers at halftime to beat the Chicago Bears and Bronco Nagurski in 1934. Your refusal to acknowledge this throws the patriot incident completely out of context and allows you the elbow room to make far reaching and totally unjustified judgments. The reason you are so eager to ignore history, precedent and context is that your real motive is not to preserve the "integrity" of the game or the "competitive balance" of the league, but to discredit the franchise and coach against which you have an axe to grind from competitive reasons. Your agenda is transparent, and your pile of posts advancing it are totally unconvincing.

 

[loosebearing]

mgteich

are you that nieve to think that Bob Kraft didn't know it for a fact or doesn't know what manipulation his organization is capable of.

The person who used Hartford to get a stadium
The person who stole a coach

I LOVE Kraft for his Compettitive Advantage

 

[Cannon Arm]

Written like a man on welfare or sits behind a desk for the government.

I doubt your paycheck is dependent on your ability to take a company to the top of its earnings

I own my own company. If I had the attitude of some of these do goodders I'd be broke.

(Plus I meant Steinbrenner instead of Yawkee or the Yawkee Trust)

You are welcome to cheat on your company's taxes and get sent to prison to be someone's girlfriend. You'd probably enjoy it.

We're talking about cheating-- using an unfair competitive advantage that is explicitly disallowed by the governing body. You can move your business to Antigua just like Belichick can coach in the AFL.

 

[loosebearing]

You are welcome to cheat on your company's taxes and get sent to prison to be someone's girlfriend. You'd probably enjoy it.

We're talking about cheating-- using an unfair competitive advantage that is explicitly disallowed by the governing body. You can move your business to Antigua just like Belichick can coach in the AFL.

so I was right

you do sit on your a*s

 

[upstater1]

You are welcome to cheat on your company's taxes and get sent to prison to be someone's girlfriend. You'd probably enjoy it.

We're talking about cheating-- using an unfair competitive advantage that is explicitly disallowed by the governing body. You can move your business to Antigua just like Belichick can coach in the AFL.

It's not disallowed. They encourage it even. Why do you keep ignoring this fact. When the Dolphins used videotape to steal signals last year, and then employed them in a game, the NFL came out and said it was perfectly fine.

The NFL DOES NOT discourage cheating. the NFL only discourages videotaping. Get your facts straight.

 

[Cannon Arm]

It's not disallowed. They encourage it even. Why do you keep ignoring this fact. When the Dolphins used videotape to steal signals last year, and then employed them in a game, the NFL came out and said it was perfectly fine.

The NFL DOES NOT discourage cheating. the NFL only discourages videotaping. Get your facts straight.

Videotaping IS cheating because it's a circumvention of the rules to gain a competitive edge. Stealing signs the way the Pats did is cheating.

 

[Cannon Arm]

so I was right

you do sit on your a*s

No, you're not right.

 

[loosebearing]

No, you're not right.

That was the first impressive post you've made.

I was openly trying to make you explode - but you went the other way.

but I still disagree with you

 

[PonyExpress]

No, you're not right.

Why bother continuing the exercise? You are convincing no one and wasting your time. Trust me on this: a code has been broken here, and in the future - maybe not this week, or next, but it's coming- the dirt on your team will emerge, enough to make you scuttle back to your shell like a naked hermit crab.

 

[loosebearing]

No, you're not right.

very impressive

I was trying to make you explode - but you went the other way

but I still disagree with you. I want to WIN.

but don't you think that in the spirit of cheating haven't the colts cheated by making the game up as they go along (by using the competion committee)