Missing the point

[loosebearing]

If you are my employer and I am free to leave the company, you can make such a demand and I'd be in violation of your rule. Belichick doesn't have to coach in the NFL if he doesn't want to operate under the league's rules. He can leave and be an AFL coach or whatever.

Except the competition committee isn't the employer

It is a conglomerate of individual teams

Its boardmembers with in fighting

 

[mdhprime]

It wasn't cheating until the competition committee wrote the rule this year saying it was. Up until this season sign stealing was an art.

However, is using the competition committee by certain owners and coaches to their advantage to their competitive advantage by changing common practices and on field play by declaring them illegal or changing how they are called CHEATING.

The obvious difference here is the Patriots got caught breaking a rule that was on the books. The bigger issue is the question of whether there is a limit to gamesmanship or not. Obviously the NFL thinks there needs to be, but making an example of the Patriot's mistake alone will not solve anything. There need to be specific rules laid out to cover a multitude of practices that have, until very recently, been accepted in a very unspoken way.
Also, and this is the big one, there needs to be constant yearly change of competition committee members, with different teams being represented each year. Obviously this is up to the owners and maybe now we will see some modifications to the way the league regulates itself as well.

 

[mgteich]

Years ago the Broncos cheated on the cap, were caught and punished. There were many NFL practices that the NEW commisssioner was HIRED to stop. He was HIRED to clean up the NFL, and prop up its image.

If you were commissioner, how would you treat an individual and team that tells you and your office to stick it on a regular basis? Might you not use that individual and team as an enforcement example? I certainly would!

The bottom line is that the Commisssioner will talk to Kraft. The example will be set. The fines will be paid. The draft choices will be lost. The suspension will be served. There will be no protest or appeals from the patriots.

And then, JUST MAYBE, this crap will stop, or be greatly reduced. And just maybe the patriots organization will change their policies toward observance of the letter and the spirit of NFL rules. Kraft is the most influential owner in the league. The Commissioner will ask again, and beg if necessary, that the Krafts make sure the patriot coaching staff is an example of positive cooperation with the league, rather than the example of how to get around league rules.

THE BOTTOM LINE is that all the punishments will not hurt the SB chances of the patriots much. This will be a small price to pay for increased public confidence in the character of NFL league organizations and the sport in general.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

No, all teams who have been on the receiving end of the Pats stealing signals by way of videotape are enraged by the Pats having been able to get away with cheating the rules all this time and are happy the Pats have had their comeuppance.

Uhhh, that's feigned enragement, by the way!

 

[loosebearing]

mdhprime
I agree with your premise and follow ups. But what is the solution. If the vast majority of the teams lose each year and all competitive advantage rules are voted by majority then it can't be fixed.
Al Davis has gone insane fighting this
The salary cap was to limit future Cowboys and 49's dynastys

The fun part is going to be watching the new EVIL EMPIRE (Pats) win it this year with everyone outside Boston rooting against them

 

[Cannon Arm]

Except the competition committee isn't the employer

It is a conglomerate of individual teams

Its boardmembers with in fighting

It's a governing body whose rules Belichick agrees to abide by, as an employed HC in the NFL.

 

[loosebearing]

mgteich

What rules - those of yesterday, those of today, or those of tommorrow?

I've been playing monopoly for years and the rule book is still the same.

Since when is sign stealing illegal or cheating - the answer is since 2007

 

[PonyExpress]

Years ago the Broncos cheated on the cap, were caught and punished. There were many NFL practices that the NEW commisssioner was HIRED to stop. He was HIRED to clean up the NFL, and prop up its image.

If you were commissioner, how would you treat an individual and team that tells you and your office to stick it on a regular basis? Might you not use that individual and team as an enforcement example? I certainly would!

The bottom line is that the Commisssioner will talk to Kraft. The example will be set. The fines will be paid. The draft choices will be lost. The suspension will be served. There will be no protest or appeals from the patriots.

And then, JUST MAYBE, this crap will stop, or be greatly reduced. And just maybe the patriots organization will change their policies toward observance of the letter and the spirit of NFL rules. Kraft is the most influential owner in the league. The Commissioner will ask again, and beg if necessary, that the Krafts make sure the patriot coaching staff is an example of positive cooperation with the league, rather than the example of how to get around league rules.

THE BOTTOM LINE is that all the punishments will not hurt the SB chances of the patriots much. This will be a small price to pay for increased public confidence in the character of NFL league organizations and the sport in general.

I am one of many who find your contributions to this board entertaining and enlightening. In this case I am perplexed by your tone. It is almost as if you are rooting for a harsh punishment because you believe BB must be reined in. Kind of like an intervention for an alcoholic. Is this an accurate portrayal of your opinion?

 

[loosebearing]

It's a governing body whose rules Belichick agrees to abide by, as an employed HC in the NFL.

he is not an employee of the league

he is an employee of the Patriots who are in COMPETITION with the other 31 teams for VICTORY not for league profit

 

[mgteich]

As with any laws or regulation, the answer is that rules in effect at the time need to be obeyed. There is no question that Belichick knows the rules, perhaps better than anyone who isn't associated with league. He has a long history of doing whatever he wants. Belichick does all he can to get around any NFL rules. He is in no way a supporter of the league or its intent to improve the game and the perception of the game.

What you seem to saying is that this is a new rule. If so, Belichick is doing what Belichick does. He has violated the new rule in the first game of the season. Isn't this a direct attack on the NFL and the Comissioner's authority?

mgteich

What rules - those of yesterday, those of today, or those of tommorrow?

I've been playing monopoly for years and the rule book is still the same.

Since when is sign stealing illegal or cheating - the answer is since 2007

 

[Cannon Arm]

I am one of many who find your contributions to this board entertaining and enlightening. In this case I am perplexed by your tone. It is almost as if you are rooting for a harsh punishment because you believe BB must be reined in. Kind of like an intervention for an alcoholic. Is this an accurate portrayal of your opinion?

That's how I read it, too. mgteich thinks that the Pats chronically skirt NFL rules and regulations and the NFL needs to put its foot down once and for all.

 

[Metaphors]

Years ago the Broncos cheated on the cap, were caught and punished. There were many NFL practices that the NEW commisssioner was HIRED to stop. He was HIRED to clean up the NFL, and prop up its image.

If you were commissioner, how would you treat an individual and team that tells you and your office to stick it on a regular basis? Might you not use that individual and team as an enforcement example? I certainly would!

The bottom line is that the Commisssioner will talk to Kraft. The example will be set. The fines will be paid. The draft choices will be lost. The suspension will be served. There will be no protest or appeals from the patriots.

And then, JUST MAYBE, this crap will stop, or be greatly reduced. And just maybe the patriots organization will change their policies toward observance of the letter and the spirit of NFL rules. Kraft is the most influential owner in the league. The Commissioner will ask again, and beg if necessary, that the Krafts make sure the patriot coaching staff is an example of positive cooperation with the league, rather than the example of how to get around league rules.

THE BOTTOM LINE is that all the punishments will not hurt the SB chances of the patriots much. This will be a small price to pay for increased public confidence in the character of NFL league organizations and the sport in general.

I was going to post a reply but you did it for me. The reason why we don't have a judgement as of 11:50 ET is that the commissioner is working this out with Kraft. The punishment will be one that Kraft agrees with and will not openly complain about. The CBA comes up again soon and the commish will need Kraft to avoid potential disaster. Everyone but the Jets and the media want this to go away and get the focus back on the games. Expect that to happen any minute now.

 

[Tyler.Durden]

It's all bright and rosey till you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

I agree that sign stealing is wide spread in the NFL, the problem is WE got dobed in by Mangini.

 

[loosebearing]

As with any laws or regulation, the answer is that rules in effect at the time need to be obeyed. There is no question that Belichick knows the rules, perhaps better than anyone who isn't associated with league. He has a long history of doing whatever he wants. Belichick does all he can to get around any NFL rules. He is in no way a supporter of the league or its intent to improve the game and the perception of the game.

you are missing my point - he is risking draft picks, suspension etc. to have this battle with the NFL. He is drawing a line in the sand. On purpose. Sanely or insanely (my Al Davis analogy)

He wants this war. Do you thnk the phone calls to NY have been appologetic.

The Colts winning last year was the battle cry. The first thing he did after was "artfully", or "illegally" talk AD into signing with the Pats at the Pro Bowl.
That was a message.

 

[PonyExpress]

That's how I read it, too. mgteich thinks that the Pats chronically skirt NFL rules and regulations and the NFL needs to put its foot down once and for all.

It would be an unfortunate commentary on mgteich if you and he are in lock-step on this issue, if that is really the case. I find that hard to believe.

 

[nowayback]

since the pats won their 1st sb...the rules committee and polian specifically have done all they can to reduce the pats power. Belichick has had enough and is maknig a stand by mocking the rule on taping...where if you want was to be enforced againto get at the pats...as they were supposed to be doing it last year. and dont give me that is the rule so he cheated....many laws and rules that have been wrong have been changed or modified in the history of the world by men who made a stand.
cheating is allowed by the nfl....polaroids ,reading lips.the dolphins last year in the pats game.

glad we have a coach he isnt afraid to fight....is he just supposed to sit and take it up the you know where every year from polian? you would think that bostonians and tea parties etc would take such an anti pats attitude. oh yea the tea party was illegal.

 

[loosebearing]

are you people all insane

do you want to be fair and LOSE

I want a pit bull (no offense) as gm and coach. It is up to Kraft when and if to reign him in or not (to fight him or not)

But as a loyal Red Sox fan - I wish George Steinbrenner own them

 

[Metaphors]

That's how I read it, too. mgteich thinks that the Pats chronically skirt NFL rules and regulations and the NFL needs to put its foot down once and for all.

I think that is a little on the harsh side. I agree that BB displays a distaste for the way the NFL regulates the flow of information from the teams (injuries, press conferences, player/coach access, etc.). I don't know if "camera-gate" has anything to do with that but it really doesn't matter. The Pats are a flagship of the NFL and Kraft acts the part. BB generally doesn't. Doesn't bother me in the least.

The part that does both me is that this is being played out in the media and that is the fault of the commish and his office. This all could have played out behind closed doors and a reasoned resolution found. Now it is a circus that can't have a happy ending...only a (hopefully) swift one.

 

[loosebearing]

since the pats won their 1st sb...the rules committee and polian specifically have done all they can to reduce the pats power. Belichick has had enough and is maknig a stand by mocking the rule on taping...where if you want was to be enforced againto get at the pats...as they were supposed to be doing it last year. and dont give me that is the rule so he cheated....many laws and rules that have been wrong have been changed or modified in the history of the world by men who made a stand.
cheating is allowed by the nfl....polaroids ,reading lips.the dolphins last year in the pats game.

glad we have a coach he isnt afraid to fight....is he just supposed to sit and take it up the you know where every year from polian? you would think that bostonians and tea parties etc would take such an anti pats attitude. oh yea the tea party was illegal.

Impressive

 

[Cannon Arm]

It would be an unfortunate commentary on mgteich if you and he are in lock-step on this issue, if that is really the case. I find that hard to believe.

You'll come around to the "dark side" soon enough!