Missed the PI call

[chrisfx811]

I just want someone to explain to me why Bill Polian, only 1 of 8 on the committee, gets special treatment over the other 7 teams represented.

Why aren't all 8 teams getting special treatment from the refs? Especially the 2 teams represented by the Chairs of the committee?

It just doesn't make any sense. It's just an easy way out that people love to take.

Polian is not king of the officials. He's one member, of an 8 man committee, of which he is not a Chair.

I'd also like to know the answer as well, because based on watching the games, it sure as hell does seem that way.

 

[Bill B.]

Before the game started, at the sports bar I was at, we were joking around about the over/under on close calls that were going to go Indy's way in the fourth quarter. We were saying two, as a joke. When we saw this call made, we weren't laughing anymore. After that call, I got a feeling in my stomach that the Colts were going to get this game. We better get next years game at Foxboro. If we hve to go back ti Indy for another regular season game, Kraft should call for an investigation.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Before the game started, at the sports bar I was at, we were joking around about the over/under on close calls that were going to go Indy's way in the fourth quarter. We were saying two, as a joke. When we saw this call made, we weren't laughing anymore. After that call, I got a feeling in my stomach that the Colts were going to get this game. We better get next years game at Foxboro. If we hve to go back ti Indy for another regular season game, Kraft should call for an investigation.

It was a stupid decision on the part of the schedule makers before the 2002 season that led to this lopsidedness (three straight games in Foxboro 2004-2006, three straight in Indy 2007-2009). It's very easy to fix so that no team plays more than two consecutive away games versus the same opponent (in the regular season, of course).

OTOH, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be before the current realignment in 2002. As but one example, the Patriots played the Steelers in Pittsburgh nine times in a row.

 

[upstater1]

Normally I'd agree with you but think back to the 2005 divisional round with Polamalu's INT that should've never been overturned. Then the 2006 AFCC where Hobbs gets flagged for a phantom PI then Reche Caldwell gets tackled in the end zone with no call. This seems to keep happening in Indy over and over and I haven't seen it anywhere else. Please point out the BS calls that went against Indy in these games they don't occur.

You forget the OPI on Troy Brown too. That was a horrendous call that sent Belichick through the roof.

 

[upstater1]

I just want someone to explain to me why Bill Polian, only 1 of 8 on the committee, gets special treatment over the other 7 teams represented.

Why aren't all 8 teams getting special treatment from the refs? Especially the 2 teams represented by the Chairs of the committee?

It just doesn't make any sense. It's just an easy way out that people love to take.

Polian is not king of the officials. He's one member, of an 8 man committee, of which he is not a Chair.

Wait a second. Polian complained about the Patriots jamming his WRs after the AFCCG in 2004, and then they changed that rule in committee. I remember Jeff Fischer--also on the committee--also had a rule changed that went toward his team--but I forget the rule.

There is something to this, and it's fine that you don't think it's true, but I guarantee you the Patriots think it's true.

Do you remember Bruschi going on a diatribe against Polian the next year after a big win against the Colts? The Patriots definitely see this dynamic on the competition committee.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

A small part of me honestly thought that Belichick might just lose it and call out the refs after they played a pretty heavy hand in this game's outcome. I often wonder if he just thinks to himself that the fines would be worth it to just say that such and such a ref totally blew a call.

The closest he came was "I don't know how it's possible that we completed that pass and didn't gain the yard that we needed."

 

[Bill B.]

Wait a second. Polian complained about the Patriots jamming his WRs after the AFCCG in 2004, and then they changed that rule in committee. I remember Jeff Fischer--also on the committee--also had a rule changed that went toward his team--but I forget the rule.

There is something to this, and it's fine that you don't think it's true, but I guarantee you the Patriots think it's true.

Do you remember Bruschi going on a diatribe against Polian the next year after a big win against the Colts? The Patriots definitely see this dynamic on the competition committee.

Don't forget they made a rule change after Lonie Paxton did a snow angel. A SNOW ANGEL? How does this effect anything that goes on in a game. You see some ridiculous calls on some celebrations, but then they totally ignore others.

 

[Bill B.]

A small part of me honestly thought that Belichick might just lose it and call out the refs after they played a pretty heavy hand in this game's outcome. I often wonder if he just thinks to himself that the fines would be worth it to just say that such and such a ref totally blew a call.

The closest he came was "I don't know how it's possible that we completed that pass and didn't gain the yard that we needed."

One thing about the Patriots. They never whine about bad calls. They were very diplomatic in the post game press conference about the calls. We as fans, though, we always b!tch about calls, but that is our job. If this had been the Chargers or the Ravens, they would have been complaining about the calls and ESPN would hae launched a series on the bad performance of the refs.

 

[SyN65]

Anybody have a video of the PI call on Butler? They should it really quick in the game...it didn't look like anything bad to me either.

 

[DaBruinz]

It was a stupid decision on the part of the schedule makers before the 2002 season that led to this lopsidedness (three straight games in Foxboro 2004-2006, three straight in Indy 2007-2009). It's very easy to fix so that no team plays more than two consecutive away games versus the same opponent (in the regular season, of course).

OTOH, it's not nearly as bad as it used to be before the current realignment in 2002. As but one example, the Patriots played the Steelers in Pittsburgh nine times in a row.

The only reason it has been 3 straight in Foxboro and 3 straight in Indy is because the 2 off years the Pats and Colts have finished the same ranking in their respective division.

Now, would you care to explain how its "very easy to fix"? Especially since it's done on a rotational basis? How can you guarantee that the Bolts or pats don't finish as the same rank in their respective divisions?

 

[bakes781]

A caller on Dale & Holley stated that this was the 2nd game in a row between the Pats and Colts that the Indy defense wasn't called for a single penalty.

 

[CMcCartney]

Yeah, the Colts always get at least one or two BS calls at home.. I don't even get that upset about it anymore.. If you play the Colts at home, you have to deal with the dome noise and the crappy calls always going the Colts way.. Seriously, I can't think of any bad or even marginal calls going against Indy, ever.. It's ridiculous..
This was the worst regular season loss I can remember.. Pats dominated the game.. they gave up two bad TD drives when they didn't go after Manning (at the end of the first half, and the TD that got the Colts within 6).. but when they played aggressively the D was great.. What a shocking end..

 

[fair catch fryar]

The call was terrible. It was a clear case of Collie basically interfering with himself and the guys on NBC even called it as such.

Butler has every right to that ball and his eyes were locked on it the whole way.

As for those spouting this "refs in Indy" crap. C'mon, can people get over that already? It's a ridiculous assertion. There are 7 other teams represented on the Competition Committee but for some reason Bill Polian pulls the strings? Even though he's not even one of the Chairs?

Bad calls happen, for and against every team. The difference is you only REMEMBER the ones that go against you (or for your worst enemy). It's like poker. You always remember when someone pulls a lucky card to beat you but you never remember when a lucky card comes in your own favour.

Let's have some perspective. Bad call? Definitely. Intentionally bad call made by the refs to aid Indy in winning? No.

Let's be logical, if the refs WERE going to help Indy intentionally, wouldn't they have tried to do it in a more even way spread out over the game, rather than in a spectacular 4th quarter come back that would draw attention?

It was a botched call. It happens in every game, in every sport. Officials are human beings and they make mistakes. Conspiracy theories just make people sound dumb.

Normally, I would agree with you, but this is beginning to take on a pretty bad smell if you ask me. Not one defensive call on Indy and the PI call against NE is almost expected in Indy at a crucial time. It happens to regularly to be coincidence IMO.

 

[falloutboy14]

The only reason it has been 3 straight in Foxboro and 3 straight in Indy is because the 2 off years the Pats and Colts have finished the same ranking in their respective division.

Now, would you care to explain how its "very easy to fix"? Especially since it's done on a rotational basis?

You just need to change the home/away rotation. Next year, the Colts will be in NE if we both win our divisions. The following year, the owners or whoever, could change the home/away rotation so the game would be in Indy.

Assuming both teams win their division forever, the rotation would become:
'10NE
'11Indy (changed)
'12NE (East plays South)
'13 Indy
'14 NE (since '11 was reversed, this would be as well)
'15 Indy (East plays South)

Re: the PI call, the way I see it is, Bulter is right behind Collie. The ball is underthrown. To make a play on the ball, Collie stops/slows down. Butler, watching the ball not Collie continues into Collie, initiating contact and pushing Collie past the point he had established.

If a wr is running, stops to make a catch and a cb runs into him, that's PI.

 

[mayoclinic]

You just need to change the home/away rotation. Next year, the Colts will be in NE if we both win our divisions. The following year, the owners or whoever, could change the home/away rotation so the game would be in Indy.

Assuming both teams win their division forever, the rotation would become:
'10NE
'11Indy (changed)
'12NE (East plays South)
'13 Indy
'14 NE (since '11 was reversed, this would be as well)
'15 Indy (East plays South)

Re: the PI call, the way I see it is, Bulter is right behind Collie. The ball is underthrown. To make a play on the ball, Collie stops/slows down. Butler, watching the ball not Collie continues into Collie, initiating contact and pushing Collie past the point he had established.

If a wr is running, stops to make a catch and a cb runs into him, that's PI.

Collie came back to the ball and ran into Butler. If Pats hater Collingsworth admitted that.

You can't run through the DB to try and get to the ball. That's offensive PI. So you're right about the PI part, just wrong about on whom it should be called.

 

[lostjumper]

That was such a pathetic call. When the NBC announcers, who were ball washing manning and the colts all game admit it, you know its bad. I wish a national writer would have the guts to go through all the BS calls the colts have gotten over the years, starting with the steelers game. There is an undeniable trend here.

 

[Yehoodi]

I actually think the Butler was playing the ball the whole way. He seemed to have his head facing the ball and Manning as soon as the cut was made by the WR.
Another thing that about that call that pissed me off was the call by Collingsworth on it. He all but admitted that Collie turned into Butler becuase the ball was underthrown a bit. And described it as a "great play" by Collie. Ah, isnt that offensive PI? Or at least not defensive PI? But I guess its to much for Collingsworth to call it the correct way.

he was playing the ball and it was really a rough call, ESPECIALLY at that point in the game, it gave the colts 31 yards AND a stoppage of the clock. Perhaps if they had to get the yards without the penatly, they may have scored after the two minute warnings (and perhaps burned a TO or so) and the game is completely different. this hurts especially as they were letting them play, the refs REALLY need to stay out of the way . . . i think what is key for me is that Butler did turnaround, was watching the ball, and leaped to try to get it, raised his right arm in an attempt to get the ball,

there was contact tho, but was made as bulter was moving down field and hit collie, but the contact was made after he turned and was playing the ball, and if one is playing the ball, and there is incidential contact is not PI. Furthermore, if its unclear if the contact is incidential then there is not PI. bottom line when a defender is deemed to be playing the ball, then unless is CLEAR that the contact is more than incidential, there is NO PI.

The NFL rules reads in pertinent part as follows:

Actions that do not constitute pass interference include but are not limited to:

(a) Incidental contact by a defender’s hands, arms, or body when both players are competing for the ball, or neither player is looking for the ball. If there is any question whether contact is incidental, the ruling shall be no interference.

 

[falloutboy14]

Collie came back to the ball and ran into Butler. If Pats hater Collingsworth admitted that.

You can't run through the DB to try and get to the ball. That's offensive PI. So you're right about the PI part, just wrong about on whom it should be called.

Funny, Colts fans call him Collinsworth-less, since he's one of the premier national media Colts-haters. I wonder if there's a fan-base that likes him.

Saying that Collie ran through DB is ... not true. Collie stops, uses his body to claim a spot, and Butler running through him draws the flag.

 

[Yehoodi]

You just need to change the home/away rotation. Next year, the Colts will be in NE if we both win our divisions. The following year, the owners or whoever, could change the home/away rotation so the game would be in Indy.

Assuming both teams win their division forever, the rotation would become:
'10NE
'11Indy (changed)
'12NE (East plays South)
'13 Indy
'14 NE (since '11 was reversed, this would be as well)
'15 Indy (East plays South)

Re: the PI call, the way I see it is, Bulter is right behind Collie. The ball is underthrown. To make a play on the ball, Collie stops/slows down. Butler, watching the ball not Collie continues into Collie, initiating contact and pushing Collie past the point he had established.

If a wr is running, stops to make a catch and a cb runs into him, that's PI.

not if the DB is looking and playing the bal, please see my above post . . .

 

[Yehoodi]

Funny, Colts fans call him Collinsworth-less, since he's one of the premier national media Colts-haters. I wonder if there's a fan-base that likes him.

Saying that Collie ran through DB is ... not true. Collie stops, uses his body to claim a spot, and Butler running through him draws the flag.

they were both moving, please, , , butler was looking at the ball and not collie, you can't asked butler to know what is behind him when he is looking to pick the ball, that is why the rule is set up that way . . .