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Misconception w/Talib


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I beg your pardon. He made two plays in the 1st Q of sundays that I hadn't seen from a Pats corner all year.
Talib allowed you to play 1 on1 with Boldin confidentley.
He made the defense a lot better because that allowed other players to be better. It cetainley has to effect the opposing QB's confidence especially when the D can't blitz as much.
That is all theory, and I'm not saying there isn't an argument for keeping Talib.
What I am saying is that it is theoretical, because the results were not significantly better with him on the field than not.
I get that you THINK all of those psychological things happen, I'm just saying the results haven't shown it.
If you want to base everything on the approx 5 pass plays he was out there for on Sunday, you can, but it isn't really proving anything.
 
BTW, if the Pats are unable to sign Talib to an extension and he does hit FA and appears likely to go elsewhere, I think Keenan Lewis would be a very good alternative. He's also only 26, has nice size, and is more physical than DRC. I don't think he'll cost as much as Talib. I'd love to get both, but don't see any way we could afford it.

After reading numerous posters say that there are "plenty of options" if Talib goes elsewhere, Lewis is really the only player I'd be comfortable with being a #1 CB.

Sean Smith-He flat out isn't leaving. Miami is a young team with a good defense that has 50 mil of cap space, they aren't letting their #1 CB go.

DRC-Attitude problems and he really isn't that good of a CB, downgrade.

Chris Houston-would be a downgrade.

Cary Williams-downgrade, don't like the guy.

Derek Cox-made of glass, bad attitude.

Brent Grimes-30 coming off a torn ACL, i smell Deltha O'neil on this one.

Jerraud Powers- made a glass, colts have plenty of cap.

That leaves Keenan Lewis. Young, the Steelers are in cap hell, and wouldn't be a downgrade. He's not exactly a proven commodity though.

So yeah, if we let Talib walk...the position is most likely downgraded.
 
After reading numerous posters say that there are "plenty of options" if Talib goes elsewhere, Lewis is really the only player I'd be comfortable with being a #1 CB.

Sean Smith-He flat out isn't leaving. Miami is a young team with a good defense that has 50 mil of cap space, they aren't letting their #1 CB go.

DRC-Attitude problems and he really isn't that good of a CB, downgrade.

Chris Houston-would be a downgrade.

Cary Williams-downgrade, don't like the guy.

Derek Cox-made of glass, bad attitude.

Brent Grimes-30 coming off a torn ACL, i smell Deltha O'neil on this one.

Jerraud Powers- made a glass, colts have plenty of cap.

That leaves Keenan Lewis. Young, the Steelers are in cap hell, and wouldn't be a downgrade. He's not exactly a proven commodity though.

So yeah, if we let Talib walk...the position is most likely downgraded.
If we fix the safety position we can put McCourty back at his natural position along with Dennard and be fine.
 
If we fix the safety position we can put McCourty back at his natural position along with Dennard and be fine.

I don't know if I agree with this. McCourty is playing much better at safety, and maybe that has helped us to forget how bad he was at corner earlier in the year.
 
If we fix the safety position we can put McCourty back at his natural position along with Dennard and be fine.

That wouldn't be that bad of an idea, but then you have to pay good $ for a Byrd or Goldson, and Goldson's pretty overrated.
 
If we fix the safety position we can put McCourty back at his natural position along with Dennard and be fine.

AJ: McCourty, is terrible at Press coverage he's easily beat off the line. Talib and Dennard gives us the best opportunity to press which can really make an average pass rush look good. CB is not McCourty natural position anymore fyi.
 
AJ: McCourty, is terrible at Press coverage he's easily beat off the line. Talib and Dennard gives us the best opportunity to press which can really make an average pass rush look good. CB is not McCourty natural position anymore fyi.

You clearly didn't watch him play corner this year.
 
You clearly didn't watch him play corner this year.

Did I mention I saw Ryan Fitzpatrick threw two picks to McCourty which my blind grandmother could have caught....*right to him*. AJ please don't tell me that from what what you have seen from both McCourty played CB better than Talib. Because I gurantee you the mass would dissagree.
 
If we fix the safety position we can put McCourty back at his natural position along with Dennard and be fine.

No thanks. McCourty is better at S than he is at CB and the odds of us fixing both safety positions in one offseason given other needs are slim to nil.
 
Did I mention I saw Ryan Fitzpatrick threw two picks to McCourty which my blind grandmother could have caught....*right to him*. AJ please don't tell me that from what what you have seen from both McCourty played CB better than Talib. Because I gurantee you the mass would dissagree.

Even your whacky imbellishment aside, how does a bad throw by a QB make the guy who picked it off bad.
Yes, if you objectively look at the tape, McCourty did play better than Talib this year. Problem is people judge McCourtys 2012 play based on what happened in 2011 and Talibs based on what they were hoping he would be, so sure the 'masses' would disagree. What other people think isn't going to change my assessment of what I saw with my own eyes.
By the way, Talib had McCourty behind him at safety when he played corner and McCourty had Chung.
 
Even your whacky imbellishment aside, how does a bad throw by a QB make the guy who picked it off bad.
Yes, if you objectively look at the tape, McCourty did play better than Talib this year. Problem is people judge McCourtys 2012 play based on what happened in 2011 and Talibs based on what they were hoping he would be, so sure the 'masses' would disagree. What other people think isn't going to change my assessment of what I saw with my own eyes.
By the way, Talib had McCourty behind him at safety when he played corner and McCourty had Chung.

I stopped right there AJ! I knew that was coming.:D We just have to agree to dissagree.
 
I stopped right there AJ! I knew that was coming.:D We just have to agree to dissagree.
Of course you knew it was coming, because it is true.
 
BTW, if the Pats are unable to sign Talib to an extension and he does hit FA and appears likely to go elsewhere, I think Keenan Lewis would be a very good alternative. He's also only 26, has nice size, and is more physical than DRC. I don't think he'll cost as much as Talib. I'd love to get both, but don't see any way we could afford it.
At least we agree about Keenan Lewis.

As for DRC .....

WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Offseason Page - Philadelphia Eagles - Team Needs, Season Preview, Free Agents, Salary Cap

Cornerback: Remember how great Philadelphia's cornerbacks were considered after the team signed Nnamdi Asomugha and traded for Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie? Well, Asomugha is bound to get released because he was so brutal in 2012, while DRC, an impending free agent, lived up to his nickname, "Doesn't Really Care." The front office will have to obtain a new No. 1 cornerback to pair with Brandon Boykin, who had an impressive rookie campaign.
 
the price for CB's is crazy Talib will get 6 or 7 million on the market, no he is not a great CB but he is much better then what the pats are puting out there at CB
 
the price for CB's is crazy Talib will get 6 or 7 million on the market, no he is not a great CB but he is much better then what the pats are puting out there at CB

Agree on all accounts.
 
What are people's opinions on Sean Smith?

Many liked him coming out of the draft as a bigger, more physical presence CB, and I think that he has shown something at times.

Could Belichick make a move like that for a younger, bigger (6'3" IIRC) physical CB in the mold of what Seattle is doing?

He has played both sides effectively, is very physical, tall, and can fill the need for the press man CB that we are currently looking for.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't backread. Someone beat me to the punch on addressing Smith.



On another note, how about those safeties? Good God....

Byrd, Goldson, W.Moore, Phillips, Reed, and Delmas.

I'd be happy with Moore myself (as a reasonable cost, seeing as how I don't think Goldson leaves and Byrd is affordable), but would probably take any one of them very gladly.
 
After reading numerous posters say that there are "plenty of options" if Talib goes elsewhere, Lewis is really the only player I'd be comfortable with being a #1 CB.

Here are almost TEN options. As much as I'd love to resign Talib to hang out in his big puffy jacket during the season's biggest game after playing in only 5 plays again for big money, I'm going to assume they don't come to terms and that someone else overpays.

If he can actually play by staying healthy, out of trouble, and contribute on a regular basis (none of which have been proven) then great... I agree with you that I'd like to see him stay too, however his recent media comments screamed at the fact that he realizes he probably won't be here, which are in direct contrast to what he was hinting at about a week ago.

He took advantage of going from practically a team's outright cut in the middle of the season, to coming back from a suspension and playing in a highly televised and highly competitive place where he was very limited in his reps. That said, he did look improved from what he had been doing, so he and his agent must realize that this short stop to NE worked highly in his favor.

There isn't any way that Belichick is going to shell out a longer term deal for him though, so he would have to play the role of "good team player," which I do not believe he'll do. That all said, here are almost 10 options.

I have listed them in order of what I personally think will be reasonable, and how I would see the priority of actually coming to fruition.

Options:

1. Take a safety in FA, such as:

--Moore
--Delmas
--Reed
--Byrd
--Delmas
--Goldson

Any one of these guys would be an immediate and obvious upgrade, and the cost difference compared to Talib may not be that different. If it came to Talib vs 4-5 of these safeties, I'd take the safeties every time.

2. Draft a safety in a supposedly deep draft class. We've been hearing for a long time now about how great this safety class is. It's a good opportunity to jump on a cheaper rookie deal, and shore up the position.

3. Draft another CB Certainly a possibility...what the hell, they're only draft picks, right?

4. Keep DMcC at safety and try any one of a number of players opposite of Dennard. Goes hand in hand with any of drafting a CB, signing a FA CB, making a draft day trade, using a UDFA, a practice squad player such as Williams (what the hell, right?), or selecting another team's castoff from 90 players in TC down to 53.

5. Hope for Dowling to finally become healthy, after all he's still on the team and he's still the 33rd player chosen two years ago. It's possible that he's been on the wrong side of the injury bug. It's also obviously possible that he'll never amount to anything. At the moment, he's certainly a candidate though.

6. Move McCourty back to CB opposite of Dennard. Use either a FA, a draft prospect, a UDFA, or another teams' castoff at safety in his place.

7. UDFA's.....this team makes the most of them. We've seen a solid portion of our roster filled out with UDFA's. This shouldn't be overlooked.

8. The unlikely possibility exists (although it shouldn't be ruled out) of a draft day trade to help the secondary position. It's still an option, and Belichick will surely address the issue on some level. While it's not a likely choice (and that's why it's #8) it's still a possibility.

9. With the TC roster rules changed last year, there are now 1000 players in the league who become castoffs due to cuts. There are some possibilities in there, and it has certainly been done before. The 2013 Patriots will have some members on their team who are castoffs. The option exists that it could certainly be in the secondary.


I'm just covering all the bases and pointing out that there certainly are other options. The team would be better than they've been in awhile by retaining him, so that's what I hope happens....however, I have my doubts to this one. Time will tell, and I hope he stays. However, if he leaves, I don't think that they will abandon what they achieved down the stretch with him here (and on the bench a lot of that time). There are other guys in this world who can play press man coverage at the position besides Aqib Talib. Maybe the downgrade is more significant, maybe it's not? I trust Belichick to make that assessment and put the overall team + cap situation first and above all else.
 
Here's the problem with moving McCourty back to CB, he's the main communicator to the rest of the secondary and he can't do that from the CB position. From safety he calls out the play or calls a coverage audible and make sure guys are in the right position. If you move McCourty to CB not only do you need a guy who has the physical ability to play the position but you need a guy who can get everybody lined up and make sure everybody knows there assignment. I don't think Gregory or Wilson can be that guy and I don't think somebody with no experience in this defense can either, not in year one. That's why we leave McCourty at safety regardless of your opinion of his CB abilities.
 
the price for CB's is crazy Talib will get 6 or 7 million on the market, no he is not a great CB but he is much better then what the pats are puting out there at CB

Also agree. Sign the maybe-not-a-beast-but-better-than-the-other-guys guy.

AquaTaliban rules.
 
Here's the problem with moving McCourty back to CB, he's the main communicator to the rest of the secondary and he can't do that from the CB position. From safety he calls out the play or calls a coverage audible and make sure guys are in the right position. If you move McCourty to CB not only do you need a guy who has the physical ability to play the position but you need a guy who can get everybody lined up and make sure everybody knows there assignment. I don't think Gregory or Wilson can be that guy and I don't think somebody with no experience in this defense can either, not in year one. That's why we leave McCourty at safety regardless of your opinion of his CB abilities.

How do you know that Mccourty is doing this? I'm not aware that he has 'audible' ability, nor that he positions other players. I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong, but I'd like to know where you get the information that this is happening.
 
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