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Miscellaneous thoughts (copyright 2008 all rights reserved) :D

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Sep 15, 2008.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    1. My first thought as I happily walked home from my local sports bar was ‘what did we all miss’? Granted we all hoped for a scenario where the Pats could walk out of Giants Stadium with a win, despite having a QB who hadn’t started a game since 1999, playing an improved Jets team, in their home opener, against a HOF QB, etc, etc, etc. Sure I’m sure there were many who felt the Pats would win the game, BUT I’m also sure that even those wouldn’t have been shocked or even surprised to see us lose a close game. This was further reinforced by the fact 85% of the so call experts picked the Jets, including a couple I even respect. Even Nellie and Paul Perillo joined Felger and Curran in ALL picking the Jets. So again I ask the question “what did we “all” miss. Here are a few thoughts
    a. QB is the most important individual position on a football team, yet we probably give the position too much weight in the winning of a professional football game. A great QB CAN take a mediocre team and elevate them, like the Pats in 2006, or a great QB can almost single handedly win an individual game. HOWEVER a good football can win with an average QB. It’s just that the margin for error is greatly reduced.
    b. I think we forget that an average NFL QB is STILL a great QB. You just have to look a Cassell’s physical skills to see he has a great arm, will make the throw with people in his face, and has some mobility. He can certainly make all the throws, its just a question can he do it CONSISTENTLY, and at the right times. Its all about the decisionmaking.
    c. Throughout the “disrespect” years of 2001-2004, we all lived by the principle that the “sum is greater than the individual parts. Yesterday’s game was further proof of that old adage. Its time we bring it back, into the forefront.

    Here are some off the cuff thoughts about yesterday’s game. I hope at least some of them offer some new insights and discussion potential. .

    On the offense

    1. The refs giveth and the refs taketh away. How many noticed that the 50+ yard pass play that set up the Jets first FG in the 2nd quarter, started a full count AFTER the clock had reached zero. None of the TV pukes seemed to notice. (BTW is that a reviewable play?). On the other hand the roughing the passer on Calvin Pass in the 4th quarter was an equally bad call. If THAT was roughing, then we might as well just give the QBs flags.
    2. Think about this. How come if a defensive player puts his hands to the facemask of an offensive player, it’s a penalty, yet QBs and RBs routinely stiff arm defensive players to the facemask, with NO retribution? In fact, merely touching a QBs facemask mask will often draw a flag. I my view there is something inherently wrong with this dichotomy.
    3. On Randy Moss. I wouldn’t be worried about his future production. The Jets tried to take him out of the game by putting a CB right on him (taking away the quick pass) and positioning a S over the top. So on many plays they took Randy out of the equation by alignment. In the Red Zone this coverage was even more pronounced. The Pats can easily defeat this by motioning Moss (long or short), and by using more man to man patterns that can free Moss against close coverage (read pick plays). The fact is that he caught a couple of balls anyway, and should have had a 60+ yd TD (with a better throw) or a 50 yd catch (with a better catch) shows how impactfull Moss can be DESPITE close coverage
    4. While Welker was his usual effective self, I am concerned that Gaffney doesn’t have the speed, or separation ability to be an effective outside receiver, ala Stallworth. He is more effective in the slot, which is kind of redundant.
    5. Cassell’s most effective attribute yesterday was the fact that he didn’t turn the ball over. The Jets weren’t even CLOSE to a pick. I was encouraged that the Pats let him throw the ball late in the game and he did pretty well at it. It looked like vintage Brady in 2001-3.
    6. I caution students of history to remember that in those years Brady had a few real clunkers (Denver –4 picks) and we shouldn’t be surprised to see Matt “enjoy” a few games like it as well
    7. I’m sure there will be a hue and cry about the lack of production from Moroney in the running game, but I defy anyone to point out where he was missing any holes, or that he wasn’t running hard. I Loved how effective Jordan seemed to be, but I would remind you all that Jordan was fresh, and got to run against a defense that had been on the field for a long time, on a hot day, and was somewhat worndown. So while I’m very glad to have him, if uninjured Laurence Moroney should STILL be our starting RB.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2008
  2. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    On Defense.

    8. I’m hoping that those of you who have savaged Ellis Hobbs this preseason will stand up an admit that to date Ellis looks like a man ready to step into Assante’s shoes. He played great defense against some very good WRs
    9. I would also be remiss not to mention how well Oneal and Sanders played overall. Most of the successful Jet pass plays were underneath crossing patterns, with Farve throwing against the grain. Even the Jets TD looked like a pick play to me. Illegal, but rarely called and very effective…and we run it too. ;) I’m feeling much better about our secondary so far.
    10. Outside of the opening drive and the Jets TD drive the defense was excellent, especially on 3rd down and in the red zone. I think we can all agree that the REAL Richard Seymour has finally stood up, and A Thomas is the real deal
    11. The Jets running totals are a bit troubling, but most of their yardage came early and one other play. For the most part, I think the Pats played very well against a good offensive line.
    12. Brandon Merriweather caught a ball – will wonders never cease. :D.

    On the Jets.

    13. Leon Washington scares the hell out of me every time he touches the ball. I love the guy. He makes big play after big play against us.
    14. Did anyone else notice that Farve did us a HUGE favor in that first down when he slid after his scramble…short of the first down, forcing a FG attempt that was missed. I thought it he really went for it he could have gotten the first down. Then again its not MY body I’d be throwing around. :D
    15. The Jets OL HAS vastly improved. Fergeson was better than last year and Woody handled the outside rush better than I thought.
    16. The Jets will be a formidable opponent in the division, but the REAL THREAT looks to be Buffalo.

    On Coaching.

    17. I hope that we will see more play action passing (PAP), especially on first down, and 3rd and shorts. Several time we lined up in a shotgun on 3rd and short, not even giving the defense a running threat. While we DID run a few plays from the shotgun formation, we NEVER faked the run and threw of the shot gun run.
    18. I was discouraged the staff litterally conceded the TD on the first drive, but was encouraged that they let him throw late in the game when it was still in doubt, especially after the Jet TD.
    19. I hope the lesson the Vikings taught us won’t be lost. Against the REAL good teams, going I for 5 in the red zone won’t cut it.
    20. Ever notice that after EVERY Jet game, BB makes a point of taking with Kerry Rhodes. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Rhodes wearing the Flying Elvis some day.
    21. I want to congratulate Dante for once again creating an OL that was solid in its pass protection. There was only one significant mental error (the free run on Cassell by Pace) and we didn’t see any of the Jail break pass rushes we saw so often in the pre season. I think that when he gets more confidence and experience in his pocket presence, Cassell will avoid a couple of those sacks.

    On Speical Teams

    22. Field position was a CRITICAL factor in this game, and Gotts KO’s were JUST as important as his FG’s. The Pats kicked off 6 times and the Jets never got the ball past the 25. That was HUGE. That being said, will Hanson EVER kick a punt that DOESN’T go into the end zone?

    Well I thnk that’s enough for today. I hope you will enjoy it.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2008
  3. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    I practically got thrown out of Pickles Pub in Baltimore yesterday for screaming about the 1.5-2 seconds extra after the play clock expired on that 50+ yrad pass play by Favre.
  4. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    Thats 'Copyright' by the way PFK but who is complaining? ;)
  5. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    ON #1, I did notice the big play was a delay of game but the refs do often add a second in many games. I disagree with you on the roughing call. It was helmet to helmet and clearly Cassel's head snapped back. QBs are vulnerable there and that is whiplash material. I definitely thought that was roughing. There's no excuse for hitting a QB up high like that.
  6. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    I was thinking the same thing as I drove to work today - Cassel will have a clunker, and we should be ready for it. But in the meanwhile, I will take the well-managed games. He again did what was asked of him.

    As for Maroney, I agree 100%. The holes weren't open for him, he did what he could with it.
  7. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    Good stuff PFK- #20 and 22...field position was HUGE- Gost gets the game ball! Talk about doing your very best to help your team, he made a signifigant contribution there. And Kerry Rhodes, yes...I caught BB showing a Jet some love but due to circumstances beyond my control I didn't see who it was!
  8. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    Good post as always. A couple of things.

    --The roughing call was based on helmet-to-helmet, not excessiveness in the tackle. So it made sense. Refs were fine.

    --Maroney will continue to be a point of discussion, but he should continue to be the Pats top back. He does need to hit the line more decisively, though. He's quick, and on more than one occasion had daylight. He's got to just go. Jordan is perfectly suited to come in when he did--when the defense has been softened up some. It's a terrific group of RBs.

    --As long as Moss doesn't mind not always getting the numbers, he's such a valuable threat. Many teams will do as the Jets did and focus on him, opening up underneath. Gaffney will get his catches.

    --I simply don't think the Jets will be formidable. They strike me as an average team, without the playmakers to be top-tier. I suppose they might win 9 in a mediocre league like this. They might also win 6.

    --The Pats will have to score more TDs, and that's largely on Cassel--just as when Brady started, the short stuff will move the chains, but it's harder to get in the end zone that way. But as Cassel gets more reps, I think his confidence and ability will grow, and he'll be able to better convert those opportunities.
  9. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rookie

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    Good collection of thoughts on this as usual, Ken. I'll respond to the ones addressing the QB phenomenon in the NFL. As we've seen the Pats develop PB (post-Bledsoe), one thing stands out. The QB took several years to develop into being thought of as one of the best to ever play the game. It was a process, as Brady 2001, while effective, was hardly Brady 2007. It seems NFL fans are so drawn to those stars who exceed the deeds of which others are capable, they forget that every play is executed with 10 other teammates doing their jobs. So we tend to agrandize the Unitas', the Montanas, the Elways, and the Bradys so much, that their importance outshines the teammates enabling their success.

    As a result, when a Brady goes down, the general assumption is that the team is no longer capable of winning, a result that was so closely associated with Brady.

    The mantra by some of us this past week has been, "Watch out for the Patriots!" There are 52 other guys on this team who are insulted at the attention this injury has drawn and the proclamations of doom and gloom. As a result, the many pro bowlers and leaders on this team came into yesterday's game on a mission.

    What did we miss? Well some missed the fact that this team is composed of excellent football players who function as a unit, get up for games through collective pride, and refuse to allow negative thinking influence their destiny. That's what some missed.
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D


    I did, beats the heck out of most of what dominates this forum these days...
  11. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Bump.....too much good stuff here to sink down the board already.
  12. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady On the Roster

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    I did not notice this so I cant give an opinion whether the ref blew it or was just following the rules.

    I am pretty sure it is written in the Rules that the Ref must first see double zeros and than look at the ball to see if it was snapped than blow the whistle if it wasn't. So there is usually going to be a delay, for some refs longer than others.
  13. Krugman

    Krugman Rookie

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    Good post PFK,and I like the copyright reference....thats good!
  14. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D

    As far as I'm concerned, Maroney is not making the most of his opportunities. I'd rather see Jordan get the majority of the reps and let Maroney be a change of pace.
  15. Absurdly Metro

    Absurdly Metro Rookie

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D


    I agree completely. Ellis Hobbs has been lights out so far this season. IMO, he seems to have developed the ability to play the ball without initiating the contact that used to draw so many flags.

    IIRC, it took Asante Samuel two or three years to develop the kind of consistency needed to play cornerback at a high/elite level. With Hobbs now having a couple years under his belt, could we be looking at the emergence of the next great Pats corner? It will be interesting to watch.
  16. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    Re: Miscellaneous thoughts (copywrite 2008 all rights reserved) :D


    Hobbs has been better than Samuel for a while. The patriots schemed around Samuel's strengths while leaving Hobbs with a harder job. Hobbs has also been hurt which hampered his quickness. This may be Hobbs' emergence with respect to the fans recognizing his abilities. I've never been high on Samuel, but it just shows you how good this coaching staff is, playing to their strengths and hiding their weaknesses.
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