Mind Changed on Seymour?

[Fencer]

You are aware that you can't carry cap space over into the following year, right?

Actually, you can. The Pats do it most seasons.

Think for a moment and you'll probably remember how it's done.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Actually, you can. The Pats do it most seasons.

Think for a moment and you'll probably remember how it's done.

Unless I'm missing something, aren't you talking about shifting cap burden so that future costs are reallocated to the current season? Before the season, I figured the cap space would go towards re-signing Wilfork, which would have a similar effect, but doesn't look like that's the case. Either way, good point: I hadn't accounted for that. Still detracts from the goal of putting a competitive team on the field this year, but at least the cap space is being used for something.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm aware about the coaches and the carry over, I was being facetious regarding the coaches.......

If you are right against the # in week 4 or 5 , what happens if ya get a shot at a VVG player(with a decent contract), or someone gets hurt and ya need to get someone in there.....?

Is the Salvation Army gonna step in?

Patsfans,com member gonna step up.....no they certainly aren't, most of them won't even help Ian keep the site afloat with a measley $18 a year, so that they can come on here and complain about the team.

That's a valid reason for why you should save some money under the cap as a sort of "rainy day" buffer... but not $5 million.Do you honestly think that the Pats even can, let alone will, take on $5 million in contracts worth of guys who can help the team over the rest of the season? Most injuries will be replaced by signing guys off of the street or other teams' PSquads- these aren't players that you're breaking the bank for. Fencer made an excellent point, though, that some of this cap space can be used for contract shuffling to free up future cap space, which I pretty much spaced on, so there is that. I'll consider the cap space that gets accounted for in this way better used.

Frankly, though, if anything's going to make me like this trade, it'll be if Brady doesn't put it together. If Brady doesn't return somewhat to form, then there's no way we're winning the SB, with or without Seymour. If that turns out to be the case, then I'll be okay with the trade.

 

[IcyPatriot]

So, some folks here didn't like the move of trading Richard Seymour. They didn't care that all the cap space was being opened up. They didn't care that the draft pick gained, could likely be a Top 10 pick.

After the Raiders game one, when Seymour had 2 sacks, and overall played well, they liked the trade even less.

Well, I would be interested in hearing folks opinion of the trade, now 5 weeks in.

In Game Two Seymour had: 2 solo tackles, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles
In Game Three Seymour had: 3 solo tackles, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles
In Game Four Seymour had: 2 solo tackles, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles
In Game Five Seymour had: 1 solo tackle, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles

I wonder if BB had a hunch about what he was doing? Thoughts? Comments? Anybody change their mind yet?

I openly questioned Seymour's motivation this pre-season so I've liked the trade from minute 1.

 

[jbb9s]

Unless you think everybody who wants to can roll over a 3rd for a 2nd and also everybody who wants to can roll over a 2nd for a likely high 1st, that's not valid.

some charts would discount the pick 2 rounds since the compensation is removed 2 season. Some super-analysts (like you) would consider the liquidity of the pick to further modify the value of the pick.

The point was just to clarify that Belichick didn't exactly trade Seymour for a first round pick in reality.

Unless you think he keeps the Goodell-signed Fax in his pocket for the next 32 games and waives it from the sideline whenever he needs a big 3rd down sack. If you believe that, then you believe the Pats got a 1 pick for Seymour.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's an uncalled for inference. This team always spends to the cap even if it included rolling some remaining cap over into the following season. This year they gained over $2M in adjusted cap that way. Next season there is no cap. Smart teams always kept a little something in reserve for in season injury replacements and acquisitions. This year under the rules of an expiring CBA the need to hold some money in reserve is greater because players who are cut will hit the cap in total this season, it's more difficult to restructure to increase cap space, no more spreading a portion of the amortized cost into the next season is allowed, and any incentives that are reached during this season will hit the cap as reached as well and cannot be rolled over into 2010.

Money might be hard to come by for '09 free agents

There was no inference. Others were talking about the money and I gave the numbers on Miguel's page, noting that I'd leave it for others to opine about that. That was it. Nothing more.

 

[MassPats38]

You are aware that you can't carry cap space over into the following year, right? You *should* spend to the cap every year. BTW, coaches and front office don't count against the salary cap...

Unless you are talking about incentive-laden contracts, a strategy used to effectively increase the cap the next year.

As a general proposition, I agree you cannot "bank" the dollars for the next year by not allocating the money to contracts. Use it or lose it.

 

[Real World]

It sucked to lose a player of his caliber, when the team is competing for a championship, but some deals are simply too good to pass up, and the Raiders deal was one of them.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

I still don't like it because I know with almost 100% certainty that he'll be a Jet next year and the thought of that makes me wanna puke.

 

[shakadave]

Those stats are meaningless. Through 5 games this season Seymour has 11 solo tackles with 2 sacks and no FF. Through 5 games last season Seymour had 10 solo tackles with 1 sack and no FF. Last year Seymour had a very good season.

I agree. I've always liked the Seymour trade, but these stats seem to show that opponents are avoiding running at Seymour.

 

[amazinPats]

I was fine with the deal then and just as happy with it today.

The difference between a 3rd round compensation draft pick and a likely top twelve pick in 2011 is huge. It's huge enough to not warrant any further discussion as to comparative value. The team will get a can't-miss prospect in 2011, and it is irrelevant whether Brady and Moss are still at the top of their form at that time. You always need high draft picks.

I'm a longtime Pats fan. I believe in any transaction which goes towards keeping the team competitive for the future, so long as it doesn't torpedo the team today. I want the team to be good every year if possible. The hurt of losing Seymour today is mimimal when balanced against the future payoff of a high draft pick.

 

[rainmaker]

Dream scenario is:
If Seymour plays poorly enough, the Raiders won't franchise him. Pats could sign him for an affordable incentive laden contract! Al Davis would then get to watch as his top five draft pick and Seymour help us win another Lombardi.

 

[muzz]

Dream scenario is:
If Seymour plays poorly enough, the Raiders won't franchise him. Pats could sign him for an affordable incentive laden contract! Al Davis would then get to watch as his top five draft pick and Seymour help us win another Lombardi.

Sey doesn't seem the type to sign anything other than a GUARANTEED big $ deal.
Why would he sign an incentive laden deal?
Especially with a guy that is asking him to tie-up the OL instead of pinning his ears back......

He's gonna be looking for a Big $ deal IMO, and the Pats won't be a suitor.

 

[makoute]

Dream scenario is:
If Seymour plays poorly enough, the Raiders won't franchise him. Pats could sign him for an affordable incentive laden contract! Al Davis would then get to watch as his top five draft pick and Seymour help us win another Lombardi.

The Pats would probably have to pay Seymour much more than anyone else would pay him before he comes back here I think.

 

[mgteich]

Is what we got for Seymour really so HUGE? We probably could have gotten a 2009 2nd for him and traded the pick forward for a low 2010 first. In 2010, we could have decided whether to trade the pick forward for a better 2011 pick.

Belichick is counting on 2011 having rookie salary caps.

I was fine with the deal then and just as happy with it today.

The difference between a 3rd round compensation draft pick and a likely top twelve pick in 2011 is huge. It's huge enough to not warrant any further discussion as to comparative value. The team will get a can't-miss prospect in 2011, and it is irrelevant whether Brady and Moss are still at the top of their form at that time. You always need high draft picks.

I'm a longtime Pats fan. I believe in any transaction which goes towards keeping the team competitive for the future, so long as it doesn't torpedo the team today. I want the team to be good every year if possible. The hurt of losing Seymour today is mimimal when balanced against the future payoff of a high draft pick.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I agree. I've always liked the Seymour trade, but these stats seem to show that opponents are avoiding running at Seymour.

That is the thing with stats, in football they have been known to lie. They only way to truly evaluate Seymour's play is to watch the tape.

I still believe that BB saw/heard/witnessed something in Seymour at TC and felt Seymour needed to go for the long term good of the team.

 

[mgteich]

No, I haven't changed my mind. When we have home field advantage in the AFC championship game and go on to win the Super Bowl, please feel free to post this question again. Belichick has reduced the likelihood of winning in 2009 for a 2011 first rounder. He probably could have gotten a 2009 second rounder and traded forward as he did with the 3rd rounders. Or he could have focused on winning in 2009 when he KNEW that it we needed special help from the defense with all the new players and with Brady coming back from an injury.

So, we judge whether 2011 compesnsation was enough by judging Seymour's play for Oakland? I guess the fan poster principle is in play. He is no longer a patriot, so he is not a very good player. If you want to judge Seymour's Oakland performance, try his first game. Oakland's players have long since tanked and don't seem to care much.

BOTTOM LINE
We like our defense. We think it will be even better later this season. How much better would it be with the best 3-4 defensive end in the league playing for us in addition to what we have?

So, some folks here didn't like the move of trading Richard Seymour. They didn't care that all the cap space was being opened up. They didn't care that the draft pick gained, could likely be a Top 10 pick.

After the Raiders game one, when Seymour had 2 sacks, and overall played well, they liked the trade even less.

Well, I would be interested in hearing folks opinion of the trade, now 5 weeks in.

In Game Two Seymour had: 2 solo tackles, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles
In Game Three Seymour had: 3 solo tackles, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles
In Game Four Seymour had: 2 solo tackles, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles
In Game Five Seymour had: 1 solo tackle, 0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles

I wonder if BB had a hunch about what he was doing? Thoughts? Comments? Anybody change their mind yet?

 

[zoostation]

Sounds cliché and football 'no nothings' like Tony Masserati despises this term....but...

In Bill I Trust!

 

[Ring 6]

I think it would would be a 2nd because it is only deferred 1 draft not 2 drafts. That list got shorter again, but point taken.

But thats faulty logic because it was defered by choice because of the CBA situaiton. TO say an 11 1st is worth less than the 10 1st when BB chose the 11 over the 10 is incorrect or simply obtuse to the factors influencing the value.

 

[muzz]

Belichick is counting on 2011 having rookie salary caps.

Translated to :

Get a top of the draft Talent(if they pick the right guy of course), at a MANAGEABLE salary...
The system right now is pathetic at best, young guys demand Kings ransom without ever strapping the helmet on against the Big Boys..and many of them FAIL to live up to the contract (Ryan Leaf/David Carr and many others say HI ).

Need to look no further than Michael Crabtree, held the 9ers hostage because he THINKS he should have been drafted higher than he was...are you serious?!!
In the meantime they got ZERO from their #1 pick, and after missing everything, it may take all year(or longer if he's a real chump) to work out for them..talk about getting screwed.

I don't know about you guys, but I have had to work my way up the salary ladder, each time having to prove myself with more and better skills..why these clowns think they deserve the ridiculous $ before strapping on in the real environment is beyond me.