Mind Changed on Seymour?

[RobertWeathers]

I'm still liking the trade a lot.
Its a little short term pain for some long term gain.
Over the past couple of years, our D line has not been the anchor I'd hoped it would be. Not with 3 first rounders who I often heard comprised the best D line in the game?
The lack of pass rush over the past few years gas been a big issue, with Seymour.

The raiders were so stupid to make this trade
They are as bad as ever and will still be dreadful in 2010. We'll get a top 5 pick for someone we would have lost at the end of this year anyway!
Would we be better with him on the team today? YES
Would we have lost him to free agency after this season? YES
Will we be better long term both in term of the money freed up to sign Biog Vince or whomever and a top 5 in 2011? YES

Great trade!!!

At least statistically, sacks are low, pressure on the Qb is low, 3rd down D is spotty and the D is giving up 4.5 ypc on the ground.

In 2008, they had those very same results last year WITH Seymour. So for the same result, the team frees up cap space and receives a #1 pick.

My .02$

 

[satz]

reminds me of a stat thread with Moss stat before the trade and why we should not trade for him.

he is getting doubled constantly if you believe that wright and green are equal to seymour well good for you. the guy get doubled everydown in oakland ...and we are better off with him.we are saying we need more qb pressure and he made sure he generated them or due to double team left a RB or TE to block AD. seems like AD production is down strangley as green or wright are not getting doubled.

a 3-4 end job is to occupy the gaurd and tackle enough to let the OLB make plays.

 

[borg]

Is that so?
What if they have to bring someone in later in the year, where is that $ gonna come from the salvation Army?
Is Seau playing for free this year?

With $5 mill in the till, assuming Seau is paid the same as last year ($1 mill prorated at $750K) leaving $4.25 mill.......the Pats can sign 17 JAGs at $310K , prorated to $240k, and still have money left over to resupply Bob's gimlet bar.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2009 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

That doesn't count Seau's signing (it was last updated on September 9), but the team is still clearly not maxing out the cap. Whether or not there's 'pocketing' involved is a matter I'll leave for you all to opine about.

That's an uncalled for inference. This team always spends to the cap even if it included rolling some remaining cap over into the following season. This year they gained over $2M in adjusted cap that way. Next season there is no cap. Smart teams always kept a little something in reserve for in season injury replacements and acquisitions. This year under the rules of an expiring CBA the need to hold some money in reserve is greater because players who are cut will hit the cap in total this season, it's more difficult to restructure to increase cap space, no more spreading a portion of the amortized cost into the next season is allowed, and any incentives that are reached during this season will hit the cap as reached as well and cannot be rolled over into 2010.

Money might be hard to come by for '09 free agents

 

[muzz]

With $5 mill in the till, assuming Seau is paid the same as last year ($1 mill prorated at $750K) leaving $4.25 mill.......the Pats can sign 17 JAGs at $310K , prorated to $240k, and still have money left over to resupply Bob's gimlet bar.

Why don't they go and sign some chump like Javon Walker just so that they can max out the cap, how about we sign anyone that costs 4 mill just so that folks will stop acting like donkies and calling the Pats cheap.

Can YOU find a spot on this team for 17 jerkoffs at 310K?
You think Billy and Krafty are sitting in the office thinking of ways to save a few bux instead of trying to find a player that is worthy of a decent contract, just so that Krafty can line his pockets......

Let's just spend every nickel to the cap, and F the contingency plans..spend within 50 cents of the cap, and if the shiot go's bad just have Krafty, Pees and Jonathan suit up for free, since they won't need to be paid......

" Jonathan......Jonathan........"

Pathetic

 

[BradyFTW!]

I still don't like the trade. He was our best pass-rusher and our biggest weakness is a pass rush. Everyone plays badly in Oakland- it's a horribly coached, horribly gameplanned, horribly assembled team, so the fact that he can't pile up stats with teams gameplanning around him every game means next to nothing to me. Randy Moss was an average-at-best WR there, remember...

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I supported this trade. Now I'm on the fence with it, although the defense has been good thus far, even with Sey I don't think I pictured them doing this well this early. I'm on the fence because I still think in January I'd rather have Seymour on the team and we were going to get a 3rd compensatory pick in return for him if we just held on to him. I'm still leaning towards being in favor of it though.

Either way I don't agree with the premise of this thread. If people didn't like the trade, 5 weeks shouldn't be enough to change their minds. Is it encouraging? Yes. Does it mean either side is right or wrong? Not at all.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Why don't they go and sign some chump like Javon Walker just so that they can max out the cap, how about we sign anyone that costs 4 mill just so that folks will stop acting like donkies and calling the Pats cheap.

Can YOU find a spot on this team for 17 jerkoffs at 310K?
You think Billy and Krafty are sitting in the office thinking of ways to save a few bux instead of trying to find a player that is worthy of a decent contract, just so that Krafty can line his pockets......

Let's just spend every nickel to the cap, and F the contingency plans..spend within 50 cents of the cap, and if the shiot go's bad just have Krafty, Pees and Jonathan suit up for free, since they won't need to be paid......

" Jonathan......Jonathan........"

Pathetic

You are aware that you can't carry cap space over into the following year, right? You *should* spend to the cap every year. BTW, coaches and front office don't count against the salary cap...

 

[muzz]

You are aware that you can't carry cap space over into the following year, right? You *should* spend to the cap every year. BTW, coaches and front office don't count against the salary cap...

I'm aware about the coaches and the carry over, I was being facetious regarding the coaches.......

If you are right against the # in week 4 or 5 , what happens if ya get a shot at a VVG player(with a decent contract), or someone gets hurt and ya need to get someone in there.....?

Is the Salvation Army gonna step in?

Patsfans,com member gonna step up.....no they certainly aren't, most of them won't even help Ian keep the site afloat with a measley $18 a year, so that they can come on here and complain about the team.

 

[Wretch]

Interesting.

Except belichick traded Seymour for a 3rd. Thats what happens to its value when it is 2 seasons deferred.

I bet the list just grew.

I think it would would be a 2nd because it is only deferred 1 draft not 2 drafts. That list got shorter again, but point taken.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You are aware that you can't carry cap space over into the following year, right? You *should* spend to the cap every year. BTW, coaches and front office don't count against the salary cap...

You can carry cap space over into the following year except during an expiring cap season like this one. Smart team always have because the alternative is wasting it. Or in some cases pocketing it because you lack cash, which has not been a problem here as Kraft has spent cash on payroll well over the cap when it made sense to. If you do that persistently you eventually end up strapped for cash and cap.

This season while you cannot roll cap forward you also can't roll incentives achieved in season or remaining amortization from player cuts forward, either. And the rules limiting contract construction and revisiting contracts make restructure less available as a means to bridge any gaps. So teams have to maintain sufficient funds to cover those contingencies.

 

[borg]

Why don't they go and sign some chump like Javon Walker just so that they can max out the cap, how about we sign anyone that costs 4 mill just so that folks will stop acting like donkies and calling the Pats cheap.

Can YOU find a spot on this team for 17 jerkoffs at 310K?
You think Billy and Krafty are sitting in the office thinking of ways to save a few bux instead of trying to find a player that is worthy of a decent contract, just so that Krafty can line his pockets......

Let's just spend every nickel to the cap, and F the contingency plans..spend within 50 cents of the cap, and if the shiot go's bad just have Krafty, Pees and Jonathan suit up for free, since they won't need to be paid......

" Jonathan......Jonathan........"

Pathetic

The original poster was elated about the possible benefits of opening up cap space. Response was....pocketed money does not help this year's team.
Then another poster said the additional cap space was for filling roster needs mid season.
Response was.... they could sign 17 minimum wage players and have money left over.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I supported this trade. Now I'm on the fence with it, although the defense has been good thus far, even with Sey I don't think I pictured them doing this well this early. I'm on the fence because I still think in January I'd rather have Seymour on the team and we were going to get a 3rd compensatory pick in return for him if we just held on to him. I'm still leaning towards being in favor of it though.

Either way I don't agree with the premise of this thread. If people didn't like the trade, 5 weeks shouldn't be enough to change their minds. Is it encouraging? Yes. Does it mean either side is right or wrong? Not at all.

Perhaps nothing. Signed FAs offset departures. Could be zero comp.

I think everyone, including BB would rather have Sey in Jan than not. Just the price for a likely shot at a top 5 or 10 pick, someone who should be a that season difference maker and for years to come.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i know every one want's to point out that seymour has 0 sack's since week 1

but has any one seen a oakland game ?

seymour is geting double teamed on every play

as much as i like wilfork he is a good run stoper and is great at covering screens

but he is not geting double teamed dose that make wilfork a bad player NO it just make's seymour a great player

and we could have used some great player's on a average D

so no i have not changed my mind about the seymour trade

maybe they do get a top 10 pick in 2 year's for seymour

but a lot can happen in 2 year's brady and moss are not geting younger the pats may have a top 10 pick of there own in 2 year's

 

[ausbacker]

And we all know only one thing will...

Maroney not running into the back of his offensive line?

 

[PittPatriot]

reminds me of a stat thread with Moss stat before the trade and why we should not trade for him.

he is getting doubled constantly if you believe that wright and green are equal to seymour well good for you. the guy get doubled everydown in oakland ...and we are better off with him.we are saying we need more qb pressure and he made sure he generated them or due to double team left a RB or TE to block AD. seems like AD production is down strangley as green or wright are not getting doubled.

a 3-4 end job is to occupy the gaurd and tackle enough to let the OLB make plays.

Excellent point made.
After the 2007 SB, I thought AD was going to break out in the upcoming seasons - primarily because I thought a DL of Warren, Wilfork, and Big Sey would always leave a LB unblocked...I mean, how could it not?
However, our D was inconsistent last year. I blamed it on the DB's and the age of Bruschi and Vrabel. I really thought this was the year we'd see a more dynamic defense with the vets and improved youth. Unfortunately, the absence of Seymour was not a variable I considered heading into the season.
Having said all of that, I also did not think Brady would have played so poorly in key moments in the first 5 games of this season. In the end, this team will go as far as Brady/Moss and our offense can carry them with the D doing a serviceable job.
I think having a hungry, contract year Seymour would have let the D carry the load while TB gets himself in gear.

 

[Fencer]

Unless the Patriots trade for a high priced player over the next few days, all the cap savings go into Kraft's pocket.

That's an utter misconception. Think about it.

 

[The_Riddler]

Guy was so overrated it wasn't funny. He had two dominant years, cashed his fat signing bonus and went on vacation and nursed injuries. Highway robbery at it's finest.

 

[Fencer]

Except belichick traded Seymour for a 3rd. Thats what happens to its value when it is 2 seasons deferred.

Unless you think everybody who wants to can roll over a 3rd for a 2nd and also everybody who wants to can roll over a 2nd for a likely high 1st, that's not valid.

 

[borg]

That's an utter misconception. Think about it.

You are correct...it's already is in his pocket...and probably not coming out.