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Militant Tax Evader Prepares for Raid

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Another right-wing nut.

    http://news.aol.com/topnews/article...epares-for-raid/20070119193609990001?cid=2194

    CONCORD, N.H. (Jan. 19) - A former militia man convicted of tax evasion prepared for a government siege Friday at his fortress-like home, but U.S. marshals gave no indication they were planning to confront him.

    Ed Brown said he was ready for a swarm of federal agents to descend on his property to execute an arrest warrant issued after he failed to appear for the end of his trial. He and his wife contend that they did not have to pay income taxes, and his supporters say a conflict could be violent.

    "If Mexico came up on my land and tried to take my land, would I not fight?" Brown said. "The United States is the same exact thing as Mexico in this state."

    Brown, 63, and his wife, Elaine, 65, were convicted Thursday of plotting to conceal their income and avoid paying federal income tax. They argued the tax is illegitimate and they are not required to pay it.
  2. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Calling this guy right-wing is just flame bait. He may have some right-wing views, but anyone this off the deep end is in a class by themselves. I wouldn't call animal rights activists that blow up labs typical left-wingers, either.
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Sure he's a nut. Remember, though, it's this exact thing that the Second Ammedment is for. It wasn't intended to give gun toting gangs all the arms they want.

    And I would contend that most things our taxes are used for are illegitimite. The Defense Department and a variety of other national security necessitites are all we should be paying for. Certainly not for Viagra and Retirement Packages.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Good going, Pujo, for calling Patters' party baiting for exactly what it is. Cut it out, Mr. Moderator.
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Unfortunately the 16th amendment made income tax legitimate (in my own view, it should be aboloshed). If you brandish arms against the government, you better be sure it's for a good cause and enough people are behind you, otherwise it's a pointless fight.
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    The idea that the federal government can tax the income of the individual is counter to American values and Atricle I of the Constitution. Without the source of income from the IRS army, the government would be unable to conduct corporate war, corporate welfare, and corporate imminent domain. The IRS is the only means the government has to control the People, and needs to be disbanded. Because of this man's refusal to pay the government for his wages, he will lose his property, and possibly his life. This is an assertion of individual freedom and a resistance to the monster that is the federal government.

    I'd go up and fight, but there's this game Sunday and I have people coming over.....
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This guy sounds like a "Liberal Loony" to me, if his skin was red and he came from some god forsaken village over in the Amazon he would be a Liberal Hero, right up there with Cindy Sheehan and the "welfare moms".
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Boy, how many beers have you had, today? I'm on my second one, myself. Got any papers?
  9. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Arguing over the legality of income tax is silly. It was authorized by constitutional amendment, and that makes it legal until it's repealed, which would be a good idea.
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I'm not arguing over the legality. I think the 16th was wrong but I understand it's legality. To me and others who think the original articles are important, the establishment of the IRS in its present form is far from the intent of the Amendment. Don't get me wrong, I think the abolition of slavery is correct and just, but I hold the 16th on a different plane. The grossly bloated government of today is nothing compared to its size even at the height of the New Deal.

    To those who believe in huge government and the use of taxes to control the people, this guy must look like the anti-Christ.
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My hope is that all involved take a long look at Ruby Ridge & Waco before they do anything, if they react innnapropriately it will have long standing repurcussions for all the fringe folks. After it is only tax evasion, and not a crime against a person.
  12. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I don't get what the problem for the feds would be in this case, it's one guy and his wife in their house. All agents have to do is surround the place, wait until he runs out of food, and comes out. They could even cut off water and electricity for fun. They certainly wouldn't need an assault on the place.
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    God bless America. He wants to be a martyr. Could use his one time here better, I think. The al qaedas and militant Islamists do it for honor, and Americans do it for dollars. Hm-m.
  14. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Actually, I read earlier that his wife is down in Mass. somewhere, away from the scene. But the guy's got some of his buds with him, all armed to the teeth. I sincerely *hope* cool heads prevail here and some peaceful accord is found.
  15. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    This is small time news right now ...

    When the guitar playing - once a week bathing
    liberal musicians get there it will be SHOWTIME.​


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would call a gun-toting, violence-threatening, anti-tax person a right-wing nut. I did not call him Republican and did not simply call him right wing. I qualified him among right wingers by using the word "nut." Animal rights activists are sometimes right wing and sometimes left wing; they are not politically consistent. But, I think it would be fair to call anti-globalization radicals (those who hurt or threaten people) left-wing nuts.
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I thought the liberals liked guys like this :confused: :confused:
  18. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    Here's a solution...

    Drop the bomb.

    That will teach him. :rocker:
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Typical.
    Examine only the surface of what's happening and not why.
    This man is relevant and the lives at risk are too, but the main subject of this whole thing is the power of the government.
  20. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    I would LOVE not having to pay taxes... but the thought of moving to the KBR/Halliburton "detention centers" as a way of future life sort of sways me back:rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2007
  21. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    While taxes have a bearing on power, the government even in a libertarian world will still control the military. People who fight taxes I don't think care about the power of government, so much as they suffer from the misguided belief that our economy and people do not need government. To reign in government, the fight should be for open government, open books, open records, open banking, and tough laws to prosecute abuse. The more info that is public, the easier it is to control the abuses of power. Cutting taxes has the net effect of making the military more powerful. That's why poor countries often have dictatorships because the government can only afford to fund the military.
  22. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wonder how Jack Bauer would handle this situation.
  23. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    BINGO! We have a Bingo on table twelve. Come up and collect your winnings.



    //
  24. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Poor countries have dictatorships because they are populated by poor people who are consequently uneducated, malnourished, unemployed, and hence, unable to defend themselves. Nor do they posess a powerful document of laws like the US Constitution. Where do you get the information about third-world countries military spending as a percentage of their GDP? I'd be interested in that info.
  25. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Constitution:
    When the Nation Of Islam and their f-cking donkeys take the country over the first thing they will do is BURN IT, and the Liberals are helping them.
    :bricks:
  26. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My main point Wistah is that small government means a relatively larger military. (As far as poor countries go, look up any list and you'll see that many of them are dictatorships, which it's reasonable to presume stays in power thanks to military support -- Pakistan, Burma, Somalia, Madagascar, are a few examples I can think of off-hand.)

    Your view I think is that if we did away with all but the most necessary services, our military would be constrained by the populace and the Constitution. But, we've certainly seen examples where the military took over virtually all functions of government, including education and health care, such as in countries like Spain, Italy, and Germany. And at least Spain and Germany had some history of democracy prior to their dictatorships.
  27. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Good points, but I disagree with some of them. I think you make a false presumption regarding the situation here in the US as compared to other countries. I think there is very little comparison. Remember, there are many wealthy countries that spend large amounts of their GDP on the military that are military or royal dictatorships like KofSA, Nigeria, Kuwait, Libya, ...now that I look at this group, seems they all have a common geography...must be something in the water.

    Smaller government means restricting the functions of government by limiting it's power over the People and their property. One of the government's functions is the control of the military. Others include the regulation of interstate commerce, international treaties, establishment and control of borders, and enforcement of Constitutional law. The proportion of federal government spending would be more weighted to the military, but that amount could and should be greatly reduced, especially during peace time. This is not a far-out Utopian scenario, but a direction towards which we should be moving IMO- that is unless you enjoy having the government in your home, yard, job, thoughts, dreams, and bedroom. I don't think you do.
  28. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's true, but even in democracies we've seen the danger of an overpowerful military establishment. The case is just more complex. Today, we have what Eisenhower called the military industrial complex, but we also have Bush using in effect his military powers to interpret all sorts of laws and ignore the will of Congress. Many individuals, especially I suspect Arab-American Muslims, have been directly affected by this.

    Whenever the country is under threat, some people's lose some liberties, be they the Japanese-Americans during WWII, peace and student groups during Vietnam, or Arab-Americans today. (Or, check this out:

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Letter-Writer-Threat.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

    Military perceptions do not match those of the public at large, and that creates the opportunity for well-intentioned abuse and can spiral out of control. I think in a liberal system, there are more checks and balances, but it only works if everything possible is on the public record.

    My views on liberty is that the government must be made to be honest and open about everything possible (e.g., obviously not the nuclear bomb codes) and to create venues for people to participate. Parent-Teacher Associations is a good examples of that kind of liberalism. (Deval Patrick, to his credit, is doing a lot of that -- holding open meetings in various regions to discuss a variety of topics. It remains to be seen if these meetings will influence him. I hope so.) If government operated in that way, it would be easier to trust them with the public interest. But, even today, I think government is far more honest (though not necessarily competent) than business because it's harder for government to get away with sh!t. A key to strengthening government is to force businesses to be more open, too.
  29. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    He knows a guy who went to one once. :D
  30. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    The Browns' case has found support on the Internet from militia members to libertarians and anti-tax groups.

    Rick Stanley, a Denver-based Web radio host and a militia leader, urged listeners to join Brown at his home.

    "We are continuing to ask patriots to surround Ed Brown's property and life with a ring of armed Americans with firearms and video cameras to protect a fellow American," he said. "This is the flash point. This is the time of raised pitchforks."


    Sounds like the Whiskey Rebellion to me. Think Bush will send in the military like Washington did?

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