Mike Reiss off the mark on McKenzie analysis

[stinkypete]

Perhaps this is a situation like the one with the running backs. According to Fred Taylor, Belichick has chosen to feature one running back in each game. Thus, we have the law firm hogging up the carries against NO, Taylor against ATL, and Maroney warming the bench. Does it mean Maroney is at risk of getting cut? No. Preseason is about situational ball and he's being saved for certain (hopefully goalline practice, hehe) situations.

The same could be said about McKenzie. McKenzie is, at best, #4 on the ILB depth chart. He only sees the field in a non-special teams role if someone gets hurt. Maybe he gets featured in one of the next two games. Pure speculation, but if it works for the RBs, it could work for the ILBs too.

I'm not too sure of the confidence that some of the posters have of McKenzie's roster spot. He's essentially a rookie, a 3rd round pick from a weak draft class fighting in a relatively deep pool of players. I see no gaurentee that he makes the team.

 

[crowell33]

Perhaps this is a situation like the one with the running backs. According to Fred Taylor, Belichick has chosen to feature one running back in each game. Thus, we have the law firm hogging up the carries against NO, Taylor against ATL, and Maroney warming the bench. Does it mean Maroney is at risk of getting cut? No. Preseason is about situational ball and he's being saved for certain (hopefully goalline practice, hehe) situations.

The same could be said about McKenzie. McKenzie is, at best, #4 on the ILB depth chart. He only sees the field in a non-special teams role if someone gets hurt. Maybe he gets featured in one of the next two games. Pure speculation, but if it works for the RBs, it could work for the ILBs too.

I'm not too sure of the confidence that some of the posters have of McKenzie's roster spot. He's essentially a rookie, a 3rd round pick from a weak draft class fighting in a relatively deep pool of players. I see no gaurentee that he makes the team.

I hope you are wrong because I strongly want McKenzie to make the team, but I have now read from several sources that McKenzie has not had a good camp and I am concerned that he does not make the team.

 

[WelshPat]

If we cut McKenzie and keep Alexander, I will be smh

 

[crowell33]

Reiss just posted an article which discusses this very issue. He mentions that BB says that all inside LB's are crosstrained at both inside positions:

New England Patriots' defensive pecking order is coming into focus - ESPN Boston

 

[Patspsycho]

C) Backup ILBs need to play both side. LILB and RILB...since we dont flip the LB there is no such position in our defense as SILB or WILB

Sorry but they have been flipping all throughout TC and also in both preseason games, if you haven't noticed.

 

[BradyManny]

NE ILBs flipped sides all the time since one backer will usually have a tendency to line up on one side over the other. What AJ is referring to is the requirement for them to be formation ambidextrous since it may not be practical to flip around again once the offense starts motioning and shifting to create mismatches. Mayo, Guyton, Spikes, McKenzie, Alexander, Fletcher, and Williams all are trained to play both sides regardless of any personal tendencies to play one better than the other.

To what extent, though? In practice, we've seen no reports of McKenzie and Spikes playing in the same unit in TC - so why would Reiss expect McKenzie to suddenly get inserted next to Spikes with the 2's in an exhibition game? The point is, whether they are built to be positional-flexible or not, we can not draw a conclusion on McKenzie based on the fact that he does not replace Mayo in the base D.

 

[BradyManny]

Reiss just posted an article which discusses this very issue. He mentions that BB says that all inside LB's are crosstrained at both inside positions:

New England Patriots' defensive pecking order is coming into focus - ESPN Boston

All players outside of QB are cross-trained, in fact, I think that was the quote Belichick delivered, and I think it was in reference to Edelman taking RB reps. Edelman has yet to take an RB rep in preseason, and I wouldn't expect him to.

At the end of the day, McKenzie is not going to replace Mayo in the 2's. There is no controversy. McKenzie's standing is as its been since early in camp: behind Spikes on the depth chart at SILB. McKenzie is behind Alexander and Fletcher in the depth chart at WILB, that's all we know from the other night.

 

[Deus Irae]

Why Denver? Why would they snatch a guy who is still adapting to playing inside a 3-4?

Denver and Kansas City both need linebacker help. Kansas City is probably a more likely landing site, since they choose from the waiver wire first.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Denver and Kansas City both need linebacker help. Kansas City is probably a more likely landing site, since they choose from the waiver wire first.

So, a low pick trade with Denver is a possibility

 

[BradyFTW!]

in the first preseason game when Mayo came out of the game who was it that lined up next to Spikes? I seem to think it was Fletcher, who I assume was playing WILB (ahead of McKenzie).

Reiss wouldn't be coming out of left-field. Maybe some strange injury will befall one of our Inside LB's and they are placed on IR.

That's because the Pats aren't going to have Spikes and McKenzie on the field at the same time. For the same reason why they wouldn't play two Ted Johnsons together

 

[bucky]

That's because the Pats aren't going to have Spikes and McKenzie on the field at the same time. For the same reason why they wouldn't play two Ted Johnsons together

It's probably a little early in McKenzie's career to pigeonhole him like that. He played all the LB positions in college. He also hasn't played in a real football game in something like 20 months.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

To what extent, though? In practice, we've seen no reports of McKenzie and Spikes playing in the same unit in TC, and in my own trips to TC I have not seen this. And, in preseason games, it's going to be likewise. So why would Reiss expect McKenzie to suddenly get inserted next to Spikes with the 2's in an exhibition game?

The point is, whether they are built to be positional-flexible or not, we can NOT draw a conclusion on McKenzie based on the fact that he does not replace Mayo in the base D.

I don't think McKenzie is a strictly between the tackles ILB, which then means he could be subbed in for Mayo if Patricia just wanted to get a look at him in the defense. Fletcher and Alexander coming in ahead of him has little significance for me since I don't know what the coaches might be trying to learn with the playing time assignments. Spikes we know is starting because he is demonstrating that potential, and we also know he gets extra reps with the second unit in preseason because Guyton's injury makes it critical to get a rookie with starting potential up to speed.

It may be that McKenzie is not bouncing back from his knee injury as fast as we'd hoped. Perhaps his reps are being limited because it still swells up on him and they are getting him ready as fast as they dare and still keep him on the roster. He is PSquad eligible and they may feel he can be sneaked through waivers because his knee may be in question and he's essentially a rookie who hasn't played football since Dec 2008. Against NO I saw a 4-3 LB trying to adjust to his assignments as a 3-4 ILB, like Mayo and Guyton as rookies he was slow to confront blockers and was getting caught and blocker too far off the LOS. Yet I also saw a guy who could pick his way through the trash and find the ball, I didn't expect a stud pass defender or blitzer and that's what I got.

Good kid, I liked him in college and I was happy to know he'd been drafted by NE, though I'd have looked for a 4-3 team to take him before NE. As it stands now, I won't be surprised whichever direction the Pats go with him, short of being cut outright.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So, a low pick trade with Denver is a possibility

Not so much.

 

[Deus Irae]

So, a low pick trade with Denver is a possibility

Well, they need linebacking, but I wouldn't expect them to be so desperate as to give up picks for a future training camp cut at the position. I'd be more inclined to your way of thinking if McKenzie were an OLB, because of Dumervil's injury.

 

[BradyManny]

I don't think McKenzie is a strictly between the tackles ILB, which then means he could be subbed in for Mayo if Patricia just wanted to get a look at him in the defense. Fletcher and Alexander coming in ahead of him has little significance for me since I don't know what the coaches might be trying to learn with the playing time assignments. Spikes we know is starting because he is demonstrating that potential, and we also know he gets extra reps with the second unit in preseason because Guyton's injury makes it critical to get a rookie with starting potential up to speed.

It may be that McKenzie is not bouncing back from his knee injury as fast as we'd hoped. Perhaps his reps are being limited because it still swells up on him and they are getting him ready as fast as they dare and still keep him on the roster. He is PSquad eligible and they may feel he can be sneaked through waivers because his knee may be in question and he's essentially a rookie who hasn't played football since Dec 2008. Against NO I saw a 4-3 LB trying to adjust to his assignments as a 3-4 ILB, like Mayo and Guyton as rookies he was slow to confront blockers and was getting caught and blocker too far off the LOS. Yet I also saw a guy who could pick his way through the trash and find the ball, I didn't expect a stud pass defender or blitzer and that's what I got.

Good kid, I liked him in college and I was happy to know he'd been drafted by NE, though I'd have looked for a 4-3 team to take him before NE. As it stands now, I won't be surprised whichever direction the Pats go with him, short of being cut outright.

Good analysis - I agree for the most part - though I will say that, given most of his scouting reports, I had McKenzie pegged as a 2-down run stuffer type.

Alexander's status on the roster, to me, is more tired to Guyton's health than anything. Though I don't think any of us would be surprised to see him make it purely on ST, as he has in the past.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Good analysis - I agree for the most part - though I will say that, given most of his scouting reports, I had McKenzie pegged as a 2-down run stuffer type.

Alexander's status on the roster, to me, is more tired to Guyton's health than anything. Though I don't think any of us would be surprised to see him make it purely on ST, as he has in the past.

If any NE player was trade bait right now, I could see them dangling Eric to Denver and KC to help their depth issues at ILB.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Reiss just posted an article which discusses this very issue. He mentions that BB says that all inside LB's are crosstrained at both inside positions:

New England Patriots' defensive pecking order is coming into focus - ESPN Boston

Sure they are cross-trained. It does NOT mean that they don't have individual strengths. Ideally he would like to have two of each proclivity, even though all four are cross-trained.

All the commentators have never discussed the reality that Guyton is a more natural WILB than a SILB. As such he would be the logical backp to Mayo. But he is injured. Isn't it just as possible that the Pats Coaches are measuring who to keep if Guyton is placed on IR between Alexander and Dane Fletcher?

 

[deters]

It's probably a little early in McKenzie's career to pigeonhole him like that. He played all the LB positions in college. He also hasn't played in a real football game in something like 20 months.

hit the nail on the head. Mckenzie is a good player and will make a solid backup but he hasn't played full speed football in close to 2 years. He just has to get his groove back and get rid of the rust. Give him time.

 

[zoogies]

Reiss was McKenzie's biggest cheerleader all offseason. Frequently he would say, "Don't count out last year's 3rd round pick, Tyrone McKenzie." Up until Spikes really blew up, Reiss was always in McKenzie's corner. I would not say he's "killing" him at all.

The fact of the matter is with Spikes and Mayo as starters, and Guyton being the third man, it puts McKenzie's spot at possible jeopardy. If the team carries 4 ILBs only, you have to ask the question if that 4th guy will be a ST contributor or a guy who like Thomas Williams, give you versatility at FB. If we carry 5 ILBs, no question McKenzie will be one of them.

All Reiss is doing is noting that McKenzie, once thought (by him) to be a roster lock and a potential starter this year, COULD suddenly be finding himself on the bubble. McKenzie's a good player, but he might not have a chance here. That would be unfortunate, if true, but you only got 53 spots. A ton of good guys and guys with potential are going to be cut. Aiken, Slater, McKenzie, Sergio Brown, BJGE - which of these guys will make it and which won't?

 

[Marqui]

They're not going to cut a hard working 3rd rounder in his second year. Especially not one that hasn't played real football in almost 2 years due to an unfortunate injury. The Pats aren't that ruthless.