Mike Lombardi on Chandler Jones

[Rob0729]

Mike Lombardi was on Sirius NFL Radio and spent much of the first part of his segment on Chandler Jones. Here are some of the highlights:

- He told Pat Kirwin (one of the hosts) before the draft that he felt Jones should be a top 10 pick because he is the best DE in the draft.
- One of the thing he loves about Jones is his arm length. He said it is one of the more underrated things in evaluating players. He said he talked to Brady after the Super Bowl and Brady said one of the toughest things he faced was the fact the Giants could get their arms up so high it was tough to get balls past the line of scrimmage. Said there are no extra points for batting down the ball ten yards down the field than batting it down at the line.
- Lombardi sees a lot of Willie McGinest in Jones. Expects him to play all over the place.
- For DEs in general, he thinks teams who dismissed DEs who they think can only rush the passer are stupid because in this pass happy NFL that is such a bigger part of their duties.

 

[BradyManny]

Great stuff.

I was really impressed with the games I saw of Jones that Ninja put up. The UConn and WV games were dominant. And I don't see why this kid can't contribute sooner than later. Reports of his rawness are overstated, I think. He's a freak, he's athletic, and he's strong.

And he has intangibles.

And not to sidetrack this thread, but one has to wonder if JPP and the Giants batting down of Brady's passing early in the game influenced his decision to loft that fateful ball towards Welker instead of try and rifle it in lower.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Great stuff.



And not to sidetrack this thread, but one has to wonder if JPP and the Giants batting down of Brady's passing early in the game influenced his decision to loft that fateful ball towards Welker instead of try and rifle it in lower.

Perhaps on other throws but who knows about that one.

 

[BradyFTW!]

When Mayock initially said that he thought Jones might end up being the best defensive player in this draft, Lombardi pretty much immediately agreed with him. Good to hear that from a guy who has an awful lot of experience evaluating players in NFL front offices.

 

[Seels]

When Mayock initially said that he thought Jones might end up being the best defensive player in this draft, Lombardi pretty much immediately agreed with him. Good to hear that from a guy who has an awful lot of experience evaluating players in NFL front offices.

I'm not one for hindsight at all, but I agree. I think the McGinest comp is dead on. I'm more excited for the Jones draft pick than any I can remember.

 

[Joker]

yeah..but this is nothing...that Coples guy the Rats drafted said today that he's ready to be an immediate All Pro THIS season...looks like we screwed up again...

 

[The Scrizz]

yeah..but this is nothing...that Coples guy the Rats drafted said today that he's ready to be an immediate All Pro THIS season...looks like we screwed up again...

Got to hand it to them, they know how to pick guys who fit right into their locker-room. Will he be SB MVP too?

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm not one for hindsight at all, but I agree. I think the McGinest comp is dead on. I'm more excited for the Jones draft pick than any I can remember.

FWIW, Mayock and Lombardi both said that before the draft, so even if you think that they're both Patriots homers (and a lot of people seem to think that), that wouldn't have influenced their opinions on Jones.

 

[JMarr]

Mike Lombardi was on Sirius NFL Radio and spent much of the first part of his segment on Chandler Jones. Here are some of the highlights:

- He told Pat Kirwin (one of the hosts) before the draft that he felt Jones should be a top 10 pick because he is the best DE in the draft.
- One of the thing he loves about Jones is his arm length. He said it is one of the more underrated things in evaluating players. He said he talked to Brady after the Super Bowl and Brady said one of the toughest things he faced was the fact the Giants could get their arms up so high it was tough to get balls past the line of scrimmage. Said there are no extra points for batting down the ball ten yards down the field than batting it down at the line.
- Lombardi sees a lot of Willie McGinest in Jones. Expects him to play all over the place.
- For DEs in general, he thinks teams who dismissed DEs who they think can only rush the passer are stupid because in this pass happy NFL that is such a bigger part of their duties.

Thanks for that synopsis. I didn't know much about Jones but loved the pick the minute I heard "OLB/DE", Mayock etc. started describing him, and the video highlights started to roll.

I agree with Ochmed that the McGinest comparisons are something to be completely pumped about.

Looks like BB snagged two absolute beasts for the front seven with his first two picks, and 3 more possible studs to help shut down the passing game in Dennard, Bequette and Wilson. This draft could be epic.

 

[mcdonut16]

For the record, the primary benefit to having long arms is that it allows the defender with the long arms to be able to create space between himself and the offensive player which allows the defender to disengage from blocks easier and in some cases never allow the blocker to gain any advantage or leverage at all over him.

If my arms are 35 inches long and your arms are 31 inches long, you can't touch me but I can touch you. This allows me to get into your chest first and then control you more easily and maintain a buffer by extending my arms which are longer than yours, which gives me options on how to get past you.

Being a younger brother, I remember my older and larger brother essentially stiff arming me in the forhead, and me taking full speed swings at him (after he pissed me off intentionally) while he was laughing in my face and my punches flailed about and connected with nothing but air. (still wish I would have had a chance to fight when we were both the same size !)

Combine the long arms with strength and speed, and well you get the picture.

The ability to bat passes down is another plus, but I believe secondary to the control advantage in a one on one match up.

 

[BradyFTW!]

For the record, the primary benefit to having long arms is that it allows the defender with the long arms to be able to create space between himself and the offensive player which allows the defender to disengage from blocks easier and in some cases never allow the blocker to gain any advantage or leverage at all over him.

If my arms are 35 inches long and your arms are 31 inches long, you can't touch me but I can touch you. This allows me to get into your chest first and then control you more easily and maintain a buffer by extending my arms which are longer than yours, which gives me options on how to get past you.

Being a younger brother, I remember my older and larger brother essentially stiff arming me in the forhead, and me taking full speed swings at him (after he pissed me off intentionally) while he was laughing in my face and my punches flailed about and connected with nothing but air. (still wish I would have had a chance to fight when we were both the same size !)

Combine the long arms with strength and speed, and well you get the picture.

The ability to bat passes down is another plus, but I believe secondary to the control advantage in a one on one match up.

In the highlights that I saw with Jones, on the rare occasions that his man beat him, it was because he allowed them to get their hands on his chest. It wasn't happening much at Syracuse, and with experience and coaching he still has room for improvement there. Best of all, he not only has long arms, but they appear to be awfully quick and strong with them as well- he can use that length to the fullest.

On a side note, just look at Chandler's older brother. The guy's become the UFC light heavyweight champion largely on the basis of having *way* better reach than anyone else. That and having elbows that are apparently made of cement, anyways. Similar principle, to some extent.

 

[Coach42]

I think what's really interesting about the pick is that, IMO, the front office has been waiting for a player like Jones for a LONG time. I think everyone has been acutely aware of the Pats need for an edge presence. Wether it be DE or OLB its been an need since at least 2006 offseason. Fans have been clamoring, media screaming yet the Pats never tried to fit a square peg into a round hole even though they knew it was a major need. Wether it be Matthews or Woodley or English or whatever other player you REALLY, REALLY wanted they to pick they always stuck to their board and what they considered proper value.

I think that faith in their player assessments and the fact that no matter where you are picked you could be cut or start at any moment are two of the most underrated factors in BB success. This isn't to say they are the best drafting team in the league or even top 5. What I am saying its outside influences (media, fans, ownership, other league execs. etc etc.) have no effect on the "Patriot Way" and that has gone a long way towards their success.

 

[randomk1]

yeah..but this is nothing...that Coples guy the Rats drafted said today that he's ready to be an immediate All Pro THIS season...looks like we screwed up again...

Heh...this kid is gonna be in for a rude awakening as a 3-4 end. I don't think this is a guy who likes to do the dirty work. He basically quit on his team in his final year.

I honestly think the bigger need for the jets was a pass rushing OLB.

 

[reflexblue]

Got to hand it to them, they know how to pick guys who fit right into their locker-room. Will he be SB MVP too?

the rats win the SB every spring, and Coples is the MVP.

 

[DarrylS]

the rats win the SB every spring, and Coples is the MVP.

Right up there with Vernon Gholston.. who was last years Defensive MVP

 

[mayoclinic]

For the record, the primary benefit to having long arms is that it allows the defender with the long arms to be able to create space between himself and the offensive player which allows the defender to disengage from blocks easier and in some cases never allow the blocker to gain any advantage or leverage at all over him.

If my arms are 35 inches long and your arms are 31 inches long, you can't touch me but I can touch you. This allows me to get into your chest first and then control you more easily and maintain a buffer by extending my arms which are longer than yours, which gives me options on how to get past you.

Being a younger brother, I remember my older and larger brother essentially stiff arming me in the forhead, and me taking full speed swings at him (after he pissed me off intentionally) while he was laughing in my face and my punches flailed about and connected with nothing but air. (still wish I would have had a chance to fight when we were both the same size !)

Combine the long arms with strength and speed, and well you get the picture.

The ability to bat passes down is another plus, but I believe secondary to the control advantage in a one on one match up.

I don't disagree with what you say, but I think you underestimate the other benefits of long arms. Not just batting passes down but altering the trajectory of passes and causing errant passes and interceptions. JPP has done a ton of that in both college and the pros. Brady was clearly frustrated by it in the Super Bowl. It can throw a QB off his rhythm and timing and cause mistakes even when not directly involved.

A third advantage is the added "reach" to get to the QB, though this is way down the list. How many times have we seen the defensive end get within a hair's breadth of the QB only to miss? Long arms may make a difference in the DE actually getting his hands on the QB, or reaching out and snagging the ankle of a RB. Again, way down on the list, but not to be ignored.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I don't disagree with what you say, but I think you underestimate the other benefits of long arms. Not just batting passes down but altering the trajectory of passes and causing errant passes and interceptions. JPP has done a ton of that in both college and the pros. Brady was clearly frustrated by it in the Super Bowl. It can throw a QB off his rhythm and timing and cause mistakes even when not directly involved.

A third advantage is the added "reach" to get to the QB, though this is way down the list. How many times have we seen the defensive end get within a hair's breadth of the QB only to miss? Long arms may make a difference in the DE actually getting his hands on the QB, or reaching out and snagging the ankle of a RB. Again, way down on the list, but not to be ignored.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one, I believe arm length to be one of the most over-rated attributes of a player. For starters, I've looked at a LOT of footage of pass rushers trying to see these instances where the longer armed player has his arms at full extension and the other player can't touch him and I simply haven't seen it, just about always both players can touch the other.

What is key is what they do with their arms, utilizing them to disrupt the balance of the other player. JPP was very well centered when he batted down those passes, his weight was beneath his feet allowing him to easily extend upwards. He also had good presence of mind but that's a different discussion.

If one player disrupts his opponent's balance, in any direction, the off balance player won't be able to generate much strength and their priority will shift to just trying to remain upright. Much of this could be encompassed in "technique", which is really a whole body thing and only ends in the arms/hands but doesnt begin there, Jared Allen has said "you sack a QB primarily with your feet, not with your hands".

You can see this in play all the time in Judo and Sumo, the ones with the longest arms aren't necessarily the winners. SOOOOOOO much more goes being a good defensive player than arm length, if we were to look over drafts from the past 10yrs I think we'd find quite tons of players who had long arms and all the other measurables who didnt amount to anything. There are also outstanding LTs that have 'short' arms but that doesn't stop them from dominating at one of the positions we're told is most dependent on arm length.

 

[Sparetire]

Lombardi is a patriots fan, i dont find his opinions objective enough.

 

[Fencer]

I'm trying to think through the physics of the longer-arms bit, and it's tricky. We have two non-rigid bodies colliding. The guy with the longer arms gets some control over the angles at which the two of them apply force, but his discretion is limited by the need to preserve his own balance.

If it matters so much who hits first, why don't see ball carriers making greater use of stiff arms? Stiff arms really seem to work only when they screw up the defenders angle or balance.

NFL Videos: NFL Films Presents: The Stiff Arm is an NFL highlights video of stiff arms. It seems to me that pretty much all of them either:

• Are against guys who lacked momentum and/or balance for the tackle, e.g. because the would-be tackler had just turned 90 degrees to close on the play.
• Served to increase separation between two players (runner and would-be tacklers) moving in pretty much the same direction.
• Really amounted to batting the would-be tackler's arms away.

None of these undermines the theory that when two guys are facing each other straight-up, arriving first with the hands isn't a big deal.

 

[letekro]

Lombardi is a patriots fan, i dont find his opinions objective enough.

Actually, he is a Bill Belichick fan. But I agree with your point.