Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised [merged]

[BelichickFan]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

I still don't think the team can afford to tie up so much money on 2 QBs. According to Miguel's page, if Cassel is franchised for $14M, that leaves about 9M for 8 more players.

And we get the $14M back when he's traded. If I had $1 for every time that's been pointed out I could pay Cassel his $14M.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

Hopefully they tag him and work out a deal in February before FA begins in March. That way the 14 million is not a factor at all, not that it would be a show stopper to begin with.

I think this makes the most sense given the fact that any team interested in Cassel would obviously want him around for the entire offseason, not just part of it. So IMO I think he gets tagged and a trade gets done within a couple of weeks, before FA begins.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

Hopefully they tag him and work out a deal in February before FA begins in March. That way the 14 million is not a factor at all, not that it would be a show stopper to begin with.

I think this makes the most sense given the fact that any team interested in Cassel would obviously want him around for the entire offseason, not just part of it. So IMO I think he gets tagged and a trade gets done within a couple of weeks, before FA begins.

That would work, but even if the Pats have to wait a couple-three months before they make the trade, the $14M can then be used up extending the 2009 UFA class: Seymour, Wilfork, Green, Mankins, Kaczur, Neal...

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

That would work, but even if the Pats have to wait a couple-three months before they make the trade, the $14M can then be used up extending the 2009 UFA class: Seymour, Wilfork, Green, Mankins, Kaczur, Neal...

Yup that works too.

 

[juny]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

Lombardi's actually referring to franchising him for trade purposes, not to keep him in the Pats fold.

I understand that point... I guess I'm not sure on one issue. If a team trades for Cassel, can they tear up the 1 year franchise offer and give him a long term deal?

I jsut don't remember that many teams lining up to pay Lord Favre for 1 year for $12M (and that was before he was exposed as inconsistent at best this year). So I'm not sure a team wants to eat 14M in one year on their cap for a QB that had 1 good year.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

I jsut don't remember that many teams lining up to pay Lord Favre for 1 year for $12M (and that was before he was exposed as inconsistent at best this year). So I'm not sure a team wants to eat 14M in one year on their cap for a QB that had 1 good year.

No team will do that. If they cannot come to an agreement with Cassel for a long-term deal, they won't make the trade. More likely a 6 year, 60 mil contract, and teams do that with QBs all the time, for QBs who have shown less than Cassel. Matt Schaub showed nothing but potential, no production, and he got a boatload of money.

And of course teams use a top draft pick on QBs all the time, and pay out 60 million all the time for guys who don't pan out. To get a guy who has won in the NFL is better than guessing on Jamarcus Russell, David Carr, Joey Harrington, Alex Smith, and many others like them.

If the 49ers could go back to their draft and pick a different QB, they would take Cassel over Smith in a heartbeat.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

And we get the $14M back when he's traded. If I had $1 for every time that's been pointed out I could pay Cassel his $14M.

Not a guarantee to get the money back, no matter how many times you say it.

Remember the Raiders and Woodson a few years ago? They tried to franchise and tag him. Woodson signed the tag to make sure he had the money guaranteed by someone (Raiders couldn't withdraw the tag once he had signed), then couldn't come to an agreement with another team.

The Raiders were forced to keep him and paying the franchise amount which is guaranteed once the tender is signed. The next year Woodson was a FA and left, getting a signing bonus and a contract (plus had his 9 mil franchise money for one year of play).

I'm not saying that Cassel will do this or it will happen this way, but you guys are blowing sunshine up each others butts pretending that the Patriots will surely get the money back. It is not a guarantee.

The best to hope for is that the Pats will only lose out on the first couple weeks of free agency by having the $14 mil tied up, and will get the money back, either in a trade or rescinding the tag assuming Cassel does not sign it.

But if I was Cassel and I played 4 years for a total of $1.4 mil, I would make sure that I at least got the $14 mil. I would sign the tag the minute it was tendered, and then I could play hardball with a trade, knowing I was guaranteed the 14 mil.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

Hopefully they tag him and work out a deal in February before FA begins in March. That way the 14 million is not a factor at all, not that it would be a show stopper to begin with.

I think this makes the most sense given the fact that any team interested in Cassel would obviously want him around for the entire offseason, not just part of it. So IMO I think he gets tagged and a trade gets done within a couple of weeks, before FA begins.

Can't happen that way, for two reasons:

(1) The franchise period doesn't start until around 2/8.
(2) From the trade deadline in October until the start of free agency, any trade is subject to waiver claims.

I understand that point... I guess I'm not sure on one issue. If a team trades for Cassel, can they tear up the 1 year franchise offer and give him a long term deal?

I jsut don't remember that many teams lining up to pay Lord Favre for 1 year for $12M (and that was before he was exposed as inconsistent at best this year). So I'm not sure a team wants to eat 14M in one year on their cap for a QB that had 1 good year.

With Lord Favre, it was because he was unwilling to negotiate a new deal. The player has the right to negotiate a new contract with his new team, as Moss did when he came to New England.

But if I was Cassel and I played 4 years for a total of $1.4 mil, I would make sure that I at least got the $14 mil. I would sign the tag the minute it was tendered, and then I could play hardball with a trade, knowing I was guaranteed the 14 mil.

Two points here, one minor, one not so minor:
Minor: He'll actually get a bonus of $100K or so for playing nearly every snap this season (the same way Randall Gay got about $200K his rookie season).
Not-so-minor: If Cassel plays too much hardball, he runs the risk of getting a lot of money, but missing out on the one thing he wants most--a starting job.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

Can't happen that way, for two reasons:

(1) The franchise period doesn't start until around 2/8.
(2) From the trade deadline in October until the start of free agency, any trade is subject to waiver claims.

I knew the franchise date started in early Feb but wasn't aware that you couldn't trade until FA begins. But it doesn't prevent them from working out a deal that will be consumated at 12:01 on the day FA starts.

 

[patchick]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

Some stray thoughts on the "legitimacy" of tagging a guy you'll *probably* trade...

A. You are theoretically not allowed to tag a player for the sole purpose of trading his rights.

B. You are allowed to tag a player "expecting to keep him," but open the door to offers for him "just in case somebody overwhelms you."

C. The fact of B has made A utterly toothless, even in extreme cases like Jared Allen.

D. Tagging a player as insurance for a key starter rehabbing a serious injury, then reevaluating the situation as rehab progresses, seems perfectly legitimate to me -- much more so than the standard scenario B. Because IF Brady hits another serious setback, the Pats WILL keep Cassel, no?


And on the tradeability factor, I'm sticking with what I posted back in October, because it's one of the few moments of foresight I've ever had.

But let's say that by the end of the season he's seeing the field better, taking fewer sacks, completing a few more 15-20 yard passes. Not so unlikely. In that scenario you'd have to call him a legitimate starter...and then you start noticing that Matt is big, athletic, has had a year of starting experience and four years of top-flight NFL coaching, and will still be just 26 years old at the end of the season. What other QB available in the offseason is likely to offer that combination of readiness and long-term potential? So the franchise tag wouldn't be outrageous to contemplate.

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

Something that has not come up in this discussion..is IF all this pans out, franchise Cassel, get some picks, trade him off, and he gets a big fat contract.

Does that not set a baseline for what Tom will want on his next contract? If Cassel gets "X" a year, whats Tom worth? 2X? 3X?

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

Something that has not come up in this discussion..is IF all this pans out, franchise Cassel, get some picks, trade him off, and he gets a big fat contract.

Does that not set a baseline for what Tom will want on his next contract? If Cassel gets "X" a year, whats Tom worth? 2X? 3X?

Cassel's gonna get a big contract from someone, just like other non HoF QB like Aaron Rogers. There are plenty of contracts for Brady or whoever else to use as comparison. Our Franchising Cassel doesn't impact that.

 

[PatriotsInGA]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

well an updated page on espn says the Pats are 90% sure 2 franchise Cassel

 

[Boston Boxer]

Re: Cassel to Be Franchised According to Mike Lombardi

I'm also thinking Belichick is cutting Seymour and re-signing Jarvis to a 3-4 year deal for cheaper money ... that's another thread though isn't it?

i am all for that

 

[mavfan2390]

Re: Cassel to Be Franchised According to Mike Lombardi

i am all for that

We'd sacrifice a little against the run, but it would improve our pass rush.

 

[SVN]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

iam wondering why would a team will trade for cassel and give up picks instead of waiting to see if pats remove the tag and let him go because of the high franchise tag price.
Unless brady is seriously behind, pats cant afford to have both the players on the roster i would think.

 

[JoePats]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

iam wondering why would a team will trade for cassel and give up picks instead of waiting to see if pats remove the tag and let him go because of the high franchise tag price.
Unless brady is seriously behind, pats cant afford to have both the players on the roster i would think.

That's why you have to hope multiple teams are interested and some of the top QBs (Bradford, Stafford) stay in college.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

iam wondering why would a team will trade for cassel and give up picks instead of waiting to see if pats remove the tag and let him go because of the high franchise tag price.

If Cassel signs it, as is assumed by most, they can't remove the tag.

 

[SVN]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

If Cassel signs it, as is assumed by most, they can't remove the tag.

so does that mean cassel is going to stay ? Why would he not sign a 14mil tender ? He also can refuse to agree to terms with any team the pats want to trade with , right ?

 

[JoePats]

Re: Mike Lombardi: Cassel to be franchised

so does that mean cassel is going to stay ? Why would he not sign a 14mil tender ? He also can refuse to agree to terms with any team the pats want to trade with , right ?

His incentive to leave is to have one of the coveted starting jobs.