Miguel et al - Colts 2008 Salary Cap

[eom]

I don't know anything more about this than I read on miguel's most excellent cap page, so I should defer to the experts, but I don't see why the cap has to bite the Pats in the ass anytime in the coming years.
Stallworth may not be resignable w/the current deal, but the cap goes up every year, and I don't see where the ceiling is crashing down on the Pats w/their current contract roster + Moss (who I'm sure they sign).
We probably can't afford Samuel, and as much as I like Stallworth, I don't see any reason they'd want to pay him all that dough --- maybe if he takes a more favorable deal spread out over a few years.......

 

[cstjohn17]

25.New England 41 $10.93 million - Note my numbers are only off by about 300K

$300K on $116 M, that is like, not a lot. Nice job, Miguel!

 

[patsfaninpa]

Miguel is like Sgt. Friday. Just the facts, sir. Gives us the info and let's us knuckleheads hash it out. We've been saying the cap is going to bite the Colts in the a** since Manning signed his big contract. He has been pointing out not so fast. He's been proven right. They were greatly aided by the last collective bargaining agreement. But, if you tracked the numbers from Directv, and the networks you knew the cap would rise dramatically because it's just a pct. of revenues. Pats helped out too. Allowed us to build this spectacular offense.

 

[tombonneau]

My take is Indy is going to likely lose one of Sanders or Clark. My guess is pretty much what everyone else is saying -- franchise Sanders.

Clark is going to get top TE money, I don't think they can keep him. If Graham got that kind of $$ in Denver, imagine what a team like the Titans will pay for Clark? Get a TE and make your division leader weaker at the same time.

 

[solman]

How easily? If I read the numbers right (no guarantees ), the Big Four of Manning, Harrison, Wayne, and Freeney will have a total CAP hit of $43 mil in 2008 and $53 mil in 2009.

Pats have big money tied up in Brady and Seymour, Stallworth if they keep him, Moss if they want to keep him, and Welker/Thomas etc. Plus a possible #2 draft pick.

At what point will the CAP bite the Colts or the Pats? Or both?

The cap will indirectly force the Pats to rebuild in 2010 when they find themselves unable to afford several departing veterans. One of the team's current strengths, its veteran depth, will come back to hurt us in 2009-2011, since we will have few quality young players who are ready to step in and play at a high level.

The Colts are already suffering from indirect cap limitations, in the form of limited depth. Dungy has done a great job with his new starters, especially on defense, but this year has clearly demonstrated that they are unable to handle the kind of injuries that the Patriots faced in 2003-2005 and remain competitive.

With a new stadium opening in 2008, they have added incentive to remain a contender for another year or two, even if it ultimately costs them dearly on the back end. I'd predict that they will deliberately push back cap space in 2008, and use the space to successfully re-sign their departing starters. Due to the strength of Jacksonville and Tennessee (both on the field and in their respective cap situations), I see Indy entering the 2008 playoffs as a wild card. If an only if Freeney is healthy, they can contend. In 2009 the rebuilding process will begin, and I don't see them returning to the playoffs before 2011.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, if there are no major changes, the pats will have cap issues for the 2010 season. In the meantime, enjoy the last three years of the decade. There will be many options for 2010 and beyond.

The cap will indirectly force the Pats to rebuild in 2010 when they find themselves unable to afford several departing veterans. One of the team's current strengths, its veteran depth, will come back to hurt us in 2009-2011, since we will have few quality young players who are ready to step in and play at a high level.

The Colts are already suffering from indirect cap limitations, in the form of limited depth. Dungy has done a great job with his new starters, especially on defense, but this year has clearly demonstrated that they are unable to handle the kind of injuries that the Patriots faced in 2003-2005 and remain competitive.

With a new stadium opening in 2008, they have added incentive to remain a contender for another year or two, even if it ultimately costs them dearly on the back end. I'd predict that they will deliberately push back cap space in 2008. Due to the strength of Jacksonville and Tennessee (both on the field and in their respective cap situations), I see Indy entering the 2008 playoffs as a wild card. In 2009 the rebuilding process will begin, and I don't see them returning to the playoffs before 2011.

 

[JoePats]

this year has clearly demonstrated that they are unable to handle the kind of injuries that the Patriots faced in 2003-2005 and remain competitive.

Uh, they're 11-2 with both losses by a combined 6 points.

 

[cstjohn17]

The Colts are already suffering from indirect cap limitations, in the form of limited depth. Dungy has done a great job with his new starters, especially on defense, but this year has clearly demonstrated that they are unable to handle the kind of injuries that the Patriots faced in 2003-2005 and remain competitive.

This is nonsense, they are 11-2 (should be 12-1) with a very good chance of being 14-2 which is the same record the Pats had in 03 & 04 (the best years in Patriots history before 2007). The Colts are damn good, if the Patriots weren't among the top teams of all time the Colts would look even better.

Their track record for drafting and developing players is more consistent than the Patriots. There is no reason to think they won't be in or near the AFC Championship as long as Manning is at QB.

They may lose a starter or two next year, but so will the Patriots. IMO the teams will be neck and neck until Brady and Manning retire, currently Moss is enough of a difference maker to give the Patriots the edge.

 

[eom]

Yes, if there are no major changes, the pats will have cap issues for the 2010 season. In the meantime, enjoy the last three years of the decade. There will be many options for 2010 and beyond.

is that after extrapolating out cap increases?

and don't you think by 2010 they will have brought in some new faces via draft, or whatever?

 

[eom]

This is nonsense, they are 11-2 (should be 12-1) with a very good chance of being 14-2 which is the same record the Pats had in 03 & 04 (the best years in Patriots history before 2007). The Colts are damn good, if the Patriots weren't among the top teams of all time the Colts would look even better.

Their track record for drafting and developing players is more consistent than the Patriots. There is no reason to think they won't be in or near the AFC Championship as long as Manning is at QB.

They may lose a starter or two next year, but so will the Patriots. IMO the teams will be neck and neck until Brady and Manning retire, currently Moss is enough of a difference maker to give the Patriots the edge.

dude, give us welker last year and the colts lose.

 

[solman]

Uh, they're 11-2 with both losses by a combined 6 points.

The Colts are a fantastic team (top 25 of all time in my opinion) when they don't have injuries.

They just can't handle losing half a dozen starters simultaneously.

 

[cstjohn17]

dude, give us welker last year and the colts lose.

Newsflash, the Patriots lost to the Colts last year, then I don't know if you heard the Colts won the Superbowl.

In the long run the Patriots will have the upper hand but like a horse race some years the Colts will triumph, luckily for us the score is 3-1 and soon to be 4-1.

 

[cstjohn17]

The Colts are a fantastic team (top 25 of all time in my opinion) when they don't have injuries.

They just can't handle losing half a dozen starters simultaneously.

They are a missed FG away from being 12-1, their only loss was to the best team of all time. How are they not handling the injuries?

 

[solman]

How easily? [Can the Colts retain their departing players]

I'd add that the Franchise tags for Safeties and Tight Ends are quite low. This should be helpful for Indy which is already talking to Bob Sanders about an extension.

(Are any of the Indy contracts with voidable years timed so they can avoid the franchise tag?)

 

[eom]

Newsflash, the Patriots lost to the Colts last year, then I don't know if you heard the Colts won the Superbowl.

In the long run the Patriots will have the upper hand but like a horse race some years the Colts will triumph, luckily for us the score is 3-1 and soon to be 4-1.

ok, maybe I needed to bold this for you:
currently Moss is enough of a difference maker to give the Patriots the edge.

 

[He Ban Me]

The cap will indirectly force the Pats to rebuild in 2010 when they find themselves unable to afford several departing veterans. One of the team's current strengths, its veteran depth, will come back to hurt us in 2009-2011, since we will have few quality young players who are ready to step in and play at a high level.

The Colts are already suffering from indirect cap limitations, in the form of limited depth. Dungy has done a great job with his new starters, especially on defense, but this year has clearly demonstrated that they are unable to handle the kind of injuries that the Patriots faced in 2003-2005 and remain competitive.

With a new stadium opening in 2008, they have added incentive to remain a contender for another year or two, even if it ultimately costs them dearly on the back end. I'd predict that they will deliberately push back cap space in 2008, and use the space to successfully re-sign their departing starters. Due to the strength of Jacksonville and Tennessee (both on the field and in their respective cap situations), I see Indy entering the 2008 playoffs as a wild card. If an only if Freeney is healthy, they can contend. In 2009 the rebuilding process will begin, and I don't see them returning to the playoffs before 2011.

I know it is not allowed to insult other members (well, only if the member is a Pats fan, and the insulter is not a Pats fan), but could you explain this statement (in bold) to me?

The other thing I would like is more in depth data on all the "starters lost" in the Pats "injury years", and what counted as a "starter lost". What key players were IR'd, what key players missed games, but returned, etc.., I know they were many, but I would think that the Colts are approaching some pretty lofty "starters lost" numbers as well.

 

[solman]

is that after extrapolating out cap increases?

and don't you think by 2010 they will have brought in some new faces via draft, or whatever?

Its not hopeless. Nobody knows what the next 2.5 years will bring.

But thanks to our depth, we haven't been grooming many potential stars of the future, and in 2008 we won't have any compensatory picks.

Pioli will have to perform some magic if we are to overcome these odds. Turning the SF draft pick into three quality first round players would be a good start.

 

[cstjohn17]

ok, maybe I needed to bold this for you:
currently Moss is enough of a difference maker to give the Patriots the edge.

Moss is the difference maker. <-- period

Teams have to scheme and account for him on every play, on most plays he has the attention of 2 defenders. Welker is a very good player who is made great because of the attention Moss receives. Review the tape of the Indy game this year for just one of the many examples, without Moss in that game the Patriots lose.

As far as last year, it is done, over, finished, time to move on. Please no more coulda, shoulda woulda, it sounds like something a stupid Steeler fan would say "The best team didn't win", "if we played them tomorrow we would win", nothing but pathetic whining.

 

[onegameatatime]

This is nonsense, they are 11-2 (should be 12-1) with a very good chance of being 14-2 which is the same record the Pats had in 03 & 04 (the best years in Patriots history before 2007). The Colts are damn good, if the Patriots weren't among the top teams of all time the Colts would look even better.

Their track record for drafting and developing players is more consistent than the Patriots. There is no reason to think they won't be in or near the AFC Championship as long as Manning is at QB.

They may lose a starter or two next year, but so will the Patriots. IMO the teams will be neck and neck until Brady and Manning retire, currently Moss is enough of a difference maker to give the Patriots the edge.

Very true. I do not follow the consensus that this will be a cakewalk to the Lombardi.

We could get a very tough game from Indy, Pitt, Dallas, or GB.

 

[JoePats]

The Colts are a fantastic team (top 25 of all time in my opinion) when they don't have injuries.

They just can't handle losing half a dozen starters simultaneously.

You said they were not remaining competitive. The Raiders are not competitive.