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Miguel et al - Colts 2008 Salary Cap

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by arrellbee, Dec 9, 2007.

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  1. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I don't know if you have any info, Miguel, or if anyone else does or has any links in regard to the Colts situation with respect to salary cap in 2008.

    When I had tried to delve into it well over a year ago, it looked like the cap money they kept pushing into the future over the last few years was going to catch up with them without much of a mechanism to avoid it in 2008.

    My look at the time seemed to come up that just Manning and Harrison by themselves would jump in cap numbers by something approximating 15M. So, even with the increase of 9M or whatever in the overall cap for 2008, the percentage of the Colts salary cap taken up by Manning and Harrison would climb from something like 15% of the Colts cap money to something like 27%. If that were anywhere close to correct, that certainly would put a big crunch in what the team could do for the rest of their payroll.

    And they have been adding other big contracts for Freeney - and I believe Mathis. And they have some significant key players like Sanders who will be looking for free agent money also for 2008.

    If Harrison can't play any longer, there would be a significant hit to salary cap to accelerate his outstanding unpaid bonus money.

    Haven't had time to even begin to try to sift thru numbers again, but would be really interested if anyone has any current projections as to what the Colts situation might look like for next year.
     
  2. Mikman

    Mikman Rookie

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  3. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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  4. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

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  5. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From what I know Sanders has the right to void his deal after this season making him an UFA. He should have a cap hit in 2008 since his 2004 signing bonus was prorated over 6 years and his 2005 option bonus was prorated over 5 years.
     
  6. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    I see D.Clark and Lilja with no salary. They'll be able to keep all 3 rather easily. Wouldn't be shocked if go after D.Stallworth if we release him. Sanders and Clark have voidable clauses which they have reached. Should make them UFA's. PFW speculated they franchise Sanders for a year. See how healthy he is before they go any longer. Makes sense.
     
  7. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Until Clark and Sander void their deals, their 2008 salaries count against the cap.
     
  8. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar In the Starting Line-Up

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    No Jersey Selected

    I read somewhere that according to their rookie contracts they can void their present ones at the end of this season. Does this sound right? If so, would they be UFA or RFA?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007
  9. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why would they go after Stallworth? They never go after free agents and why do we care about the Colts cap? Does one cap play against another cap?

    The Patriots and the Colts are the same, as long as they have Manning/Brady they are contenders. Each year a few players will be lost and a few new faces will be added.
     
  10. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Miguel, Am I reading this right?

    So not only is Sanders, Clark and Lilja all going to be unrestricted free agents, they only have 36 guys under contract for 2008? and those 36 guys put them only 17 million under the cap???

    Plus they do not have a 1st round pick next year?

    They have Harrison signed through 2011 with a total cap hit left of more than 50 million. I wonder how much of that is left over signing bonus money? His knee seems to be pretty wrecked. I can't see him finishing that contract.
     
  11. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think M.Harrison's long-term availability is in doubt. He's not getting any younger and coming off of a knee injury. They don't have a first round pick. Won't pick until 61. Won't be able to get his replacement there. I think free-agency is the route to go.
     
  12. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW--anyone else find it funny that the Colts have $4M tied up in Vinatieri and Jim Sorgi? :singing:
     
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For better or worse, Anthony Gonzalez has to be the long term replacement. He hasn't been great this year but there's no reason to think he'll be a bust either.
     
  14. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Very much appreciated Mikman and Miguel for the links.

    Very interesting. So as far as coltscap.net sees at the moment then, Manning and Harrison do indeed take up 30.7M or 26.4% of the 2008 Colts cap. That is certainly a huge amount of the cap to devote to 2 players.

    I'm not sure if there is any mechanism for the Colts to get around that kind of a cap hit. The remainder of Mannings contract is a huge chunk of salary and amortized signing bonuses that have already been given. I suppose they could redo his contract and add funny years to spread the existing money over years that Manning is not likely to play. But somehow or another I can't see egoman Manning giving up any of that contract money to be spread to fake years. And the NFL Player's Association might have some pressure on that also. It will be interesting to see if the Colts will indeed have some kind of manipulation to get around such a cap hit.

    If Marvin Harrison cannot play beyond this year, there is still 11.8M cap bonus money that has to be written off against him.

    Another interesting observation on the makeup of Colts versus Patriots salary structure:

    The 2008 Colts salary cap breakdown (future projection by Coltscap.net) has just 14 players counting over a 1M cap hit and those 14 players total 85.6M.

    The 2007 Patriots salary breakdown according the Miguel's salary cap page has 33 players counting over 1M cap hit and those 33 players total 81.9M.

    A very different philosophy as to how to utilize cap dollars.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007
  15. solman

    solman Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Clark has been great and offensive linemen are fetching quite a premium right now. They shouldn't be cheap.

    I don't think that the Colts can afford do much more than sign their free agents and draft picks. If they continue to push a lot of money into the future (I'm specifically thinking about the last Harrison's dead money, and Peyton's salary for 2008), they can be a small time player, but they'll hardly be front runners for the top talent.

    Tennessee and Jacksonville are amongst the teams with the best 2008 cap position. I think that Stallworth could be a good match for the Titans.

    I wonder if Indy will win another division title this decade.
     
  16. solman

    solman Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Harrison has $11.8M in future salary cap hits for bonus money already paid.

    If he is cut after the beginning of June, he will count $4.4M against the 2008 cap and $7.4M against the 2009 cap.

    Keep in mind that the Colts may have more than $10M in additional 2008 cap space as a consequence of their 2007 cap situation. In my mind, the Colts extra cap space and the Harrison situation roughly cancel each other out.
     
  17. GoPats

    GoPats Rookie

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    Colts traded their next year's 1st rounder for a 2nd rounder last year to draft Tony Ugoh....... forgot which team though.....
     
  18. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    The board's most hated team this year. SF.
     
  19. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Update on the 2008 cap picture.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/12/09/week14/4.html

    So you want to know how active your team will be with a good free-
    agency market coming up in three months? Here's a chart of how much
    cap space each team was due to have next spring as of Saturday, along
    with how many players each team has under contract:


    Team Signed Players 2008 cap room
    1. Tennessee 39 $40.85 million
    2. San Diego 44 $33.03 million
    3. Jacksonville 43 $32.69 million
    4. Buffalo 49 $32.05 million
    5. New Orleans 39 $31.69 million
    6. Cincinnati 48 $31.45 million
    7. San Francisco 48 $30.91 million
    8. Cleveland 42 $30.31 million
    9. Arizona 34 $30.27 million
    10.N.Y. Jets 45 $27.72 million
    11.Oakland 40 $25.98 million
    12.Tampa Bay 48 $25.90 million
    13.Miami 48 $25.56 million
    14.N.Y. Giants 49 $24.47 million
    15.Detroit 42 $23.50 million
    16.Houston 43 $22.91 million
    17.Dallas 40 $20.61 million
    18.Kansas City 44 $20.27 million
    19.Chicago 52 $19.80 million
    20.Pittsburgh 43 $18.61 million
    21.Green Bay 48 $18.37 million
    22.Philadelphia 49 $17.17 million
    23.Denver 49 $16.77 million
    24.Minnesota 49 $14.88 million
    25.New England 41 $10.93 million - Note my numbers are only off by about 300K
    26.St. Louis 45 $9.61 million
    27.Seattle 44 $9.55 million
    28.Indianapolis 48 $8.49 million
    29.Carolina 35 $6.05 million
    30.Atlanta 52 $5.79 million*
    31.Baltimore 42 $5.00 million
    32.Washington 45 -$20.72 million

    * Not including unspecified potential rebate from contested return of
    Michael Vick's pro-rated signing bonus.
     
  20. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    How easily? If I read the numbers right (no guarantees :D ), the Big Four of Manning, Harrison, Wayne, and Freeney will have a total CAP hit of $43 mil in 2008 and $53 mil in 2009.

    Pats have big money tied up in Brady and Seymour, Stallworth if they keep him, Moss if they want to keep him, and Welker/Thomas etc. Plus a possible #2 draft pick.

    At what point will the CAP bite the Colts or the Pats? Or both?
     
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