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Michael "Whale Blubber" Moore shows his stripes (again)

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Sep 7, 2009.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    .

    What do you call a man calling for the destruction of capitalism, when he lives and thrives and becomes a mega-millionaire in a capitalist system????

    [size=+4]HYPOCRITE??? Yeah, HYPOCRITE is accurate, very very accurate[/size]


    [size=+3]"Capitalism is evil," says new Michael Moore film[/size]

    By Mike Collett-White

    VENICE (Reuters) - Capitalism is evil. That is the conclusion U.S. documentary maker Michael Moore comes to in his latest movie "Capitalism: A Love Story," which premieres at the Venice film festival Sunday.

    Blending his trademark humor with tragic individual stories, archive footage and publicity stunts, the 55-year-old launches an all out attack on the capitalist system, arguing that it benefits the rich and condemns millions to poverty.

    "Capitalism is an evil, and you cannot regulate evil," the two-hour movie concludes.


    Capitalism is evil, says new Michael Moore film | Lifestyle | Reuters


    Moore's elitist message: "Money is good when people like me have it, but it is terrible for others (who differ from me) to have it." ... :wha:

    Sigh...... elitists...... what do you do with 'em??? Let 'em start their own "socialist utopia" in ..... Africa or Siberia. How 'bout China.

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  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A friggin Tub Of Sh!t who makes millions bashing his own country and all the loons keep slobbering over him and making him richer, they despise America but they never leave...............

    Why do people pay good money to watch his demented garbage.............:confused:

    Moore is an Obama Groupie and Moore Hates Capitalism does that mean something?
     
  3. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Tell you what: I'll donate a dollar of my money for every ten dollars Tubby Michael donates for a worthy cause. He controls at least ten times the amount that I do, so it's fair.


    Whattya say, Blubber Belly, Moore?? Can you man-up on this???

    (Pressy or some other leftie on speaking terms with Donut Man can pass this on, I'm sure.)



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  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey


    These people are so full of crap. John Travolta with his green crap all the while he has an airport on his property. But you have to give it up to these people ... they support the left even though they know they will get a tax pooning.
     
  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah, it's like none of them has ever read any history. A hudred years ago they were saying the same thing in Europe: how "corrupt" and "evil" the old order was.... all the bad dukes and duchesses ..... the corrupt Czar and Czarina (of Russia, not Obama's play-mates :rolleyes:).... they said they all wanted a nice, fair, equalized system, without all the 'old-boy' politics, etc. ....... So, who'd they get???? V.I. Lenin, Josef Stalin, Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini.

    The draft was REALLY bad that year.


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  6. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Does giving your money to con man from North Korea count?
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Must you show bigotry against obese people, too, Fog? Tthe way you titled the thread was rude and probably offensive to some people.

    Capitalism is a bad economic system, but it's the best one so far. Let's face it, the reason the west can take the moral highground was because is raped and pillaged Africa, blacks, Native Americans, and others. In the 1900s there were tens of thousands of child prostitutes in New York City and capitalists employed children for as long as 72 hours/week making them into virtual slaves. In the past, we sent out National Guardsmen to shoot striking workers, we allowed capitalists to kill tens of thousands through pollution, dangerous working conditions, and market driven wars (such as the Spanish American War). In other countries, the crimes of capitalism were far worse. King Leopold of Belgium basically made the Belgian Congo into his private company where he murdered 5,000,000 people, and neither his country nor his family ever faced any consquences. In addition, capitalism provides for totally illogical wages -- some here have pointed out that Michael Moore must be worth a lot of money. But, is it logical that someone who does good works should earn vastly less than someone who does bad things? That's how capitalism is. It does not drive an economy with a set of values (except as imposed by limited government regs); it simply creates a form of anarchy where base needs, be it sex, violence, hoarding, gluttony, or whatever are often what generate the most demand and thus the most wealth.

    Nonetheless, as awful as capitalism is, it still semms to be the best system. By appealing to humankind's selfishness, it creates the sort of wealth that allows many people to become teachers, doctors, preachers, artists, scholar, and others who are motivated by the more profound side of humanity.
     
  8. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Well, Patters, there's always China, Cuba, Zimbabwe, or -- you're favorite, probably -- Iran :rolleyes: , if you don't like the U.S.

    Anyway, the issue isn't that capitalism is "the best"; it's that this fatso -- and yes, he clearly EARNS that title by the way he lets himself go while flaunting his wealth unbelievably even as he decries the system that ALLOWS HIM to earn it!!! -- is being 100% hypocritical. Surely, even you can acknowledge that.

    For the record, I believe in a form of socialism but it sure isn't one where the limousine, caviar and champagne set are telling the rest of us to "go green and take less while paying more taxes" set. Uh-uh. It's where the ones who lead are the ones who lead by EXAMPLE, *not* by "do as I say, not as I do" vacuous celebrity.

    Peace.


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  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I live in this country unlike you, so clearly my affection for this country runs deep.

    I have no idea about Michael Moore's wealth. How does he flaunt it? If we compare the avarice of Moore to that of Moon, at least Moore didn't rip off Japanese widows. I suyspect Moon lives in far more luxury than Moore.

    At any rate, I think you're wrong for insulting people for their weight. Frankly, I think Moon is a pretty strange looking guy, too:

    [​IMG]

    How do you know how Michael Moore lives? From one of those unsourced websites that makes undocumented claims? I'm sure Moore lives well, but I certainly don't think he lives decadently well compared to Wall Street tycoons and others whose only purpose in this world is wealth. At least Moore has something to say, whether you agree with him or not.
     
  10. PatsFanInVa

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    Blah blah blah.

    The OP's accusation is that Moore says it is bad for others to be rich but not for him to be rich; that is what "hypocrisy" means, indeed.

    A similar example: all the theocrats boinking the church secretary or running off to nail argentinian journalists, and inveighing against the sexual behavior of others.

    I think Michael Moore understands, however, that if capitalism did not exist, then he would no longer be rich. He is rather inveighing against the system that does in fact permit him to be wealthy as well.

    The difference seems to be that Moore acknowledges openly that he makes a ship pot of money. He does not crawl around in the shadows like the theocrats, shouting about others' evil behavior. He says yep I'm rich too. Take down the system, and I'm not rich anymore.

    I don't much care whether the local theocrats manages to convince one another that child molesters, closeted gay "defenders of marriage," and polyamorous champions of monogamous sexual morality are better than a rich guy who thinks capitalism has to go.

    But in terms of the olympics of hypocrisy, one would think one real telling factor for the judges would be whether the behavior somehow invalidates the ideology. In Moore's case the behavior is film making within a capitalist system, which - if he got his way - would simply become film making within a "better" system (I have not seen the movie so I do not know if he believe there is such a better system, or merely points out that the current one is evil.)

    In terms of the straying theocrats, the excuse is always that when the better system comes, nobody will sin (by definition.) However, the task of policing the sexual morality of others always seems to be justified by the principle of "what God wants." Often they call for America to become ruled by "what God wants," cast in terms of sexual morality. All of us are expected to live according to their pronouncements that some sexual behavior is immoral, when they do not in fact live by said pronouncements themselves.

    Michael Moore never has called for all of his followers to leave behind their earthly possessions because we would then all be perfect. That was another guy, who of course you may also call a hypocrite if you like, given the wealth he bequethed to his organizational heirs.

    The theocrats in question do, daily, call for all of us to behave in ways that they themselves refuse to behave.

    That seems much more like hypocrisy to me.

    Oh as to the post's titular charge that Michael Moore is very fat, that is true. I am not certain what it has to do with anything. Moore did not make "Supersize Me."

    PFnV
     
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Oh, boy, here we go again. I put in the first 50 years of my life in America, but now I've learned how other people around the world live, and it gives me a much deeper appreciation of what is good about America. Can also see more clearly what is bad, and that's mostly got to do with people who haven't a clue about how the rest of the world lives.

    "You suspect" means you have no idea what you are talking about. Does Michael Moore get up at 2:30 A.M.every day to start his day with prayer for others, meditation, and exercise?? Father Moon does. And he's been doing it since he was in his 30s; he's now 90 years old. "Avarice"??? Do you even know what that word means?? Father Moon does NOT "rip off" anyone, Japanese or otherwise. Your "suspicions" of the worst in others before checking into the facts reveal far more about YOU than they do of Father Moon. Father Moon raises considerable funds each year and then spends 95% of those funds on others -- schools, hospitals, universities, education centers all over the world. He bought a bankrupt University of Bridgeport, CT, and saved hundreds of jobs for people who were not even members of his church, and kept educating the thousands of students who were studying there. Learn some facts before you spout; it will enhance your credibility.

    Rev. Sun Myung Moon Official Website


    Don't know what's so "strange" about Rev. Moon's features, except you've used a distorted photo. Here's one that's accurate:

    Universal Peace Television - UPF World View


    One only needs to see Michael Moore in action, doing his drive-by pseudo-journalism to know how he lives. Bad news bear. And not aging well in the process, from all accounts. He never misses a chance to bash America and would do himself a HUGE favor by spending a year or two abroad seeing how others live.


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  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Wow, did you mean to hijack the thread or were you just taking fog to the woodshed?

    What you say about hypocritical theocrats is true of course but I think you went a wee too far from the subject of the post which I thought was more about Michael more than a general discussion on hypocrisy and who wins that pissing contest.

    I for one do not like Michael Moore and I cannot for a minute defend him with any "well at least he didn't do this like those other guys do". That is creating a false choice and is a stretch if you're trying to give Moore any benefit of the doubt. If I were a liberal I think the only good thing I could say about him is that he’d generally be on the same side of the political fence as me. He comes across as an elitist snob who thinks he’s one step above everyone not in lock step with him on the evolutionary scale. His obviously deceitful out of context documentaries make my skin crawl. When I look at the tub of sh!t I can only shake my head that he has the gall to talk about the cost of health care in the US when it’s gluttonous specimens like him that add such a large part of that cost…..and now that he’s become rich and even fatter off of his only in America success he once again bad mouths it...which ironically will make him more money. Put it this way. He’s the wrong poster boy for these causes. I do not respect him at all.
     
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    :blahblah: , indeed. Can you be any more vague??

    So, in your view, Moore's willingness to take down the whole system that gives the human race the HIGHEST standard of living it has ever had is just peachy fine with you simply because he -- ONE man -- is (presumably) willing to sacrificing a few more steaks and fine red lobsters??!!!! :wha:

    Look, if the guy wants to SHOW THE WAY by taking off about a hundred or so pounds, and then wants to donate 90% of his (ill-gotten) gains to actually benefit OTHERS, rather than to build up a bigger war-chest for HIS self-serving propaganda machine, then he *might* have some credibility. Right now he has none. Nada. Zilch.

    Starkist wants tuna that taste good, not tunas who have "good (sic) taste".


    Carry on.

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  14. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Trying for one or the other, but failing miserably at both. "Do one thing, and do it well." - St. Francis of Assisi


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  15. PatsFanInVa

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    I haven't seen one of his films for a while, not because I don't enjoy them, but because I generally wait for stuff to get on TV.... they don't tend to recycle his stuff on TV because, well, you know. They're on serious subjects. We can watch the fictional killings of several thousand people every year, but we can't stand the facts connected to, for instance, the Columbine shootings.

    I know Moore's stuff is a huge lightning rod for the right, and as you and fog rightly identify, he is fat -- which seems to be entirely too much just on the face of it. Whatever he has done with his life, he is fat; case closed.

    What I see is a guy that throws red meat out there for the left, and sometimes it's a big eye-opener even (or especially) for someone who knows the basics but has to be reminded of them. I for one am used to a cynical acceptance of something that is just asinine for decades. When I see his films I typically say to myself "true dat," followed by "and what can you do about it."

    I have no trouble w/the film's title, though I haven't seen the film. For many the system Fog so loves generates death sentences.

    Fog is right to identify that extremist alternatives have been failures, and by the way, there is no reason to believe that a theocratic alternative would generate anything else. No lending at interest, no capitalism. Think about it.

    Mixed economies at this writing seem to be the best way of securing the blessings of markets without the worst depredations of capitalism.

    But as we are forewarned by the film's title, Moore certainly isn't announcing that he is going to deliver a considered analysis of what could and should change and what system may be called on to supplant Capitalism. I doubt he goes through the whole film without a nod to various mixed economies, but we'd have to see the film to know, wouldn't we?

    So, why don't we all go see it and reconvene to decide whether "Michael Moore is Evil" (this time)?

    And an aside: I know pretty early on that I'm dealing w/a lefty in his films. He entertains, and he presents facts. He does not argue that they are the only interpretations of the facts. He presents his.

    As to fairness it is worth considering that in "Bowling for Columbine," while he spends a great deal of time on gun violence and the American murder rate, he also makes a point of pointing out that Canadians have a similar gun ownership rate to the US - but that Canadians simply don't tend to shoot each other as much. He leaves the gun violence question largely to the viewer, the Parker/Stone animation notwithstanding.

    So, long story short, I know Michael Moore drives the fogs of the world nuts, or more accurately, adds to their meshugas. In terms of factual distortion, the big pharma shills I see on CSPAN make anything Moore dishes up look quite tame.

    So I took the charge of "hypocrisy" to be Fog's problem w/Moore this time. The fact that a man who has made a lot of money decries the system in which money is used, may not be as persuasive as Fog believes it to be.

    In a nod to the argument at hand, I would in fact love to hear that Moore made a principle of donating 10% or 20% or whatever percent to charity (of course Fog would like him to donate 90%, since it seems so unlikely he will do so.) I do not have any figures on the amount he has donated thus far to Raising Malawi, which famously he founded and Madonna -- the other rightist lightning rod -- has also given to generously.

    A final coda: if Moore wants Capitalism to be done away with, the least effective action he could take would be to put his money in charity. Charity under the capitalist system in use in the United States, while it does alleviate suffering within capitalism, does nothing to change the system that by standard critiques of capitalism, has poverty as a built-in feature.

    Were he to find a radical leftist political party, for example, one that demanded of rich men that if they would be perfect, they should give up all their possessions -- as both Lenin and Jesus demanded -- and if that organization were effective at the stated goal (where both Lenin and Jesus failed,) then Moore would have at his disposal such a tool.

    Again, having not seen the film, I am not certain he answers the question of what is less evil than capitalism. But if that answer is forthcoming, that is the measure by which Moore's putative hypocrisy should be taken: does he or does he not work to either replace Capitalism, or work to mitigate its most egregious excesses.

    The films themselves do the latter, but in that he has a great deal of personal wealth, uses of that wealth to mitigate the excesses could take the form of charity, political action, or both.

    PFnV
     
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    Gawd. Just saw the commercial for it. "Capitalism - A Love Story". Of course, that title is not in giant scare type in the OP...

    Makes me think, hmmmm. Sort of more likely to dwell on the bailouts -- i.e., the love story -- than the evils of capitalism in its own right.

    This is more a swipe at the moderates like me, who wanted to save the system (i.e., reluctantly pro-bailout) than capitalists-in-populist-drag, who declaimed against bailouts despite being beholden to the system they saved. (And not only are they beholden to those interests, they are now virulently railing against the state "screwing with" capitalism which is deemed to always be best -- never mind that market capitalism collapsed in 2008 and was rescued whole hog by the state.)

    Sometimes the layers of irony around here are just too much.

    Moore seems to be pinging me ex post facto, not the markets-know-best crowd... because I'm supposed to know better.

    Certainly food for thought. Make ya a deal. I'll go see it if you do, Fog. Then we can discuss it on its merits.

    PFnV
     
  17. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Like this example?

    What is your Awesome Mommy and Daddy telling us here? We should dress like freaking clowns?

    [​IMG]

    You'd be better off not referring to anyone as a hypocrit. How's life in your home in Lithuania? Your commentary on American society is hilarious.
     
  18. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm not a fan of Moore ... but he fits a stereotype which is not fitting of his intelligence. He is a way smarter guy than he appears and he has a great gift for making film. Unfortunately he is cast into the fat idiot slob category which is a bit unfair. Love him or hate him people like Moore are great for reminding us that we do have the right to free speech and opinion. Moore - Van Jones - Glen Beck - they serve a purpose.
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, Fog, I've lived in a number of European countries and spent 7 years abroad, so I too have the kind of knowledge you're talking about. But, perhaps one difference is that I lived in a variety of countries, and found that they all have their virtues. And, when you get down to the individuals, most people are decent and happy and hard working. The US certainly has it's advantages, but it doesn't have all the advantages. While I prefer the US to other places, I can definitely make a case for living in Sweden, Norway, France, Portugal, Spain, or Switzerland, and in Portugal. You apparently live abroad and suffer people with your American arrogance, perhaps not understanding why they don't want to be like America in every way.

    In my opinion, his prayer is an ego trip, since he believes he's the messiah, and in true nepotist fashion appoints his family into influential roles in his absurd fantasy. He's a self-serving nut in my opinion, who appeals mostly to lonely hearts. That does not mean he's evil; in fact, he may play an important role to those who are dependent on him. But, they are few in number.

    Many disagree with that.

    I think Reverend Moon is committed to his beliefs as Michael Moore is to his. I wasn't talking about what they do for others. Both of them within their means are very generous, but again I suspect that Reverend Moon lives in greater luxury than Michael Moore. I could be wrong, but certainly it's my impression from the way they dress and act, and the people they hobnob with.


    I don't really care what someone looks like, but my point was simply that it is wrong to make fun of people because they are overweight or unattractive.


    Michael Moore doesn't bash America anymore than Rush, Beck, Malkin, etc. do. He believes in an America where all people are treated equally and the basic needs of the poor are given more importance than the decadent desires of the wealthy.
     
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    The Reverend Moon's organizations, like their leader, do not have unquestioned sterling reputations, so far as their use of funds go:

    Rev. Moon and the United Nations:

    This as part of an analysis of the worthiness of U.C. standing as a UN recognized NGO. The remainder of the article is also fascinating reading, regardles of what one thinks of Moon's claim to messiahship, or any given facet of his theology.

    PFnV
     

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