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Michael Vick honored as “a true example of life success”.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by cupofjoe1962, Feb 26, 2011.

  1. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    Michael Vick honored as “a true example of life success”

    Michael Vick to be honored at Norfolk arts gala | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    They needed to name Vick, because Rae Caruth was not available
    to come to the event to receive his father of the year award...
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They can give the bastard the Congressional Medal Of Honor, The Nobel Peace Prize and The Pope Can Canonize him but the whole world still knows he is nothing but a Street Punk Piece Of Sh!t, if he couldn't play football he would probably be a Gang Banger in jail lifting weights.


    :bricks:
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    absurd

    The only thing noteworthy about Vick is his athletic ability. People need to stop treating athletes as heroes just because they have amazing physical abilities.
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you there but you shouldn't have said "amazing physical abilities" some of the more loony loons take that as a "racist comment" I know someone like me would be called on it.


    :bricks:
  6. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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    I agree.... good post chico.
  7. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    OT: right... poor persecuted harry

    You're called on your racist and bigoted comments when you make racist and bigoted comments, but keep playing the victim card like so many on the right now seem to do when called out on their garbage.

    The fact that you somehow thought about race in reading my post shows just how obsessed you are about it.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't like Vick at all for what he did, but I can see another argument: If you look at Vick's treatment of dogs as a symptom of a disease which he has now overcome, then you see a message of strength in what he did. For people from backgrounds where all sorts of generally unacceptable behavior is accepted, someone like Vick is a hero for managing to transcend that. He may be a good role model for many people.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  9. Nikolai

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    The cynical part of me says that Vick would not even be considered for this kind of honor if he had just gone on to live a normal life after prison as opposed to being in contention (briefly) for the MVP.

    Also, Norfolk is desperate to find a local athlete that they can cheer.

    Plaxico Burress
    Lawrence Taylor
    Bruce Smith
    Allen Iverson

    Maybe they should look in Mayo's direction or Mike Tomlin?
  10. chicowalker

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    I think that's a pretty big stretch, Patters.

    If he were now actively working tirelessly to prevent dogfighting and teach youth about how that and other things are wrong, andd he had been doing so for some time, I could see it. But I'm not aware of any substantial efforts on that front, and even if there have been some, it's been for a very short period of time.

    Labeling him a hero for what is simply abiding for the law seems like a terrible message.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's not my intent to defend him and basically I agree with you, but I would guess that both of us are coming from a middle class world view. If you grow with a crack addict mother, no dad, and drugs all around, Vick may be someone you can relate to. At least he apologized and is living within the law. He's not a role model for me in part because his story is so different from mine.
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    I don't like what he did, either....but the key phrase is "did," not "is doing."

    Whatever ever happened to redemption? Forgiveness?

    Are we all that perfect that we can look back and say, "Boy, golly, I sure have been perfect," or am I the only one here who's screwed up once upon a time, overcame it and is willing to admit it?

    It's harder to come back from a bad place than it is to have stayed in a good place, so yeah, I can see how Vick could be considered a role model of sorts for people who've messed up and are now afraid that there's no road back.

    Honestly, if I want to hear about surviving alcoholism or drug addiction I'm gonna trust what an ex-junkie or an ex-drunk tells me far more than I am going to trust someone who's never been there.

    Everyone talks about the horrible statistics that say once you've been to prison you're going to end up back in prison - Vick's story is different. That's an accomplishment. It doesn't negate what he did to get sent to prison in the first place but the fact that he's been in prison also doesn't negate the fact that he's accomplished things since getting out.
  13. chicowalker

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    Yeah, I understand you're not defending him.

    I'm sure Vick is somebody others can relate to, but I would think there are better role models from that background.

    (In general I think far too many people put athletes on the hero pedestal, so that's partly coloring my view here, btw.)
  14. chicowalker

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    I just don't think any of that makes him a hero, mrs
  15. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Maybe this will help.

    Vick began speaking with the Humane Society almost immediately after his release from prison and continues to do so to this day.

    Vick has been speaking about the evils of dogfighting to youth groups under a program administered by the Humane Society of the United States.

    "He has been effective in helping young men choose a better path," said John Goodwin, the Humane Society's manager of animal fighting issues. "He is the example of how dogfighting is a destructive, dead-end activity with enormous consequences."

    Vick was not required to perform such a community service under his sentence, Goodwin said. Nor was he required to set aside, as he did, nearly $1 million to help with the disposition of 60-plus dogs who survived his dogfighting ring.


    Michael Vick, NFL star and convicted dogfighter, to host Gulfstream Park party - Sun Sentinel


    Wayne Pacelle; President and CEO US Humane Society

    "I was skeptical, but Michael said he didn't just want to do a press release, he wanted to dedicate his life to this... and in the year and a half I have known him, he hasn't turned me down once."


    Continue reading on Examiner.com: Michael Vick urges kids to spread the word about evils of dog fighting - National Pet Rescue | Examiner.com Michael Vick urges kids to spread the word about evils of dog fighting - National Pet Rescue | Examiner.com
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    I don't believe anyone said he was a "Hero," did they?

    The award from Norfolk is for being a "life success."
  17. wistahpatsfan

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    *(Disclaimer: Most dogs I know are excellent, loving, reliable and intelligent. I can't say the same for people and cats)

    "The Norfolk-based group, which has hosted the Afr'Am Festival in Town Point Park, said it plans to honor Vick because he has "epitomized the meaning of 'hero' not only by his unparalleled accomplishments on the football field, but more importantly, by his relentless resilience in overcoming the obstacles he has faced... and becoming a true example of life success for all to emulate," a news release says

    First...they DO call him a hero. He is most definitely NOT a hero. He is a torturer and killer of dogs. He is a sick individual. Children who do that are many times more likely to harm humans than those who don't. Any adult who does that is dangerous, IMO, no matter how soft-spoken and talented they are.

    And he's not that good of a quarterback...certainly not "unparalleled".

    This "major award" is not about redemption. It's about sucking up to the rich and/or famous awardee who may respond with a major contribution to the awarder. 99.9% of poor black kids born to crack moms without dads never end up torturing or killing dogs or people.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Sorry, didn't catch that.

    Ok - I wouldn't go so far as to say he's a hero - but I also won't go so far as to say he's scum, either.

    Lots of people were scum at one time and then cleaned up their act. That's what America's about in a way, isn't it? It's a land of second chances.

    So - he used to be scum but he's trying to overcome his scumminess, how's that? Do you grant him that possibility or don't you?

    Because if you don't then you shouldn't give it to anyone else, either. Not to me who had a child out of wedlock, not to PR who used to be an alcoholic, not to any one who ever broke a law or cheated on their taxes or their wife or their husband or got into an accident while drunk driving or hurt someone in a barroom brawl or anything else.

    The legal system in this country applies to everyone. You commit a crime, you do the time, pay your fine and then they let you out - and it is considered that you have made your restitution and you get to start over having paid your debt to society.

    I'd much rather see someone succeed than fail, wouldn't you?

    It almost seems as though people are angry that Vick's not fallen back into his old ways.

    What's up with that, anyhow?
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If he didn't get caught he'd still be doing it, why are liberals so eagar to forgive this rat bastard but they still hold hatred in their hearts for Ronald Reagan & GW Bush.
    :singing:
  20. chicowalker

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    I don't doubt that he's done some of this, and it's a start, but imo it is just a start.

    (and I'm not impressed at all by the financial contribution -- they were his dogs, he's responsible for their care)
  21. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I saw it someplace -- maybe in the press release?

    edit: never mind, saw the exchange b/t you and wistah.

    From that post -- re "...Because if you don't then you shouldn't give it to anyone else, either. Not to me who had a child out of wedlock, not to PR who used to be an alcoholic, not to any one who ever broke a law or cheated on their taxes or their wife or their husband or got into an accident while drunk driving or hurt someone in a barroom brawl or anything else.

    The legal system in this country applies to everyone. You commit a crime, you do the time, pay your fine and then they let you out - and it is considered that you have made your restitution and you get to start over having paid your debt to society.

    I'd much rather see someone succeed than fail, wouldn't you?

    It almost seems as though people are angry that Vick's not fallen back into his old ways..."

    First of all, virtually none of the things you mention compare to what Vick did, imo -- the only one that's close is drunk driving. (Cheating on one's spouse is awful, but it's b/t them)

    Re. the legal system, I've seen this brought up a lot re. Vick, but to me it's irrelevant. The legal system has virtually no bearing on my opinion of people, and that goes in both directions. Just because somebody serves their time doesn't mean that public opinion has to erase all memory of what they did.

    And I'm not sure why you are viewing criticism of him, or even just the view that he isn't a hero, as wanting him to fail.

    Personally, I'm just skeptical of somebody who may be doing things solely to keep playing in the NFL. That's why I would need to see a substantial and prolonged effort to curb dog fighting before I could actually commend the guy. Show me that it's truly something you regret and want to put an end to -- make a commitment to it. Then I could start to admire him despite his past transgressions, which were, simply, despicable. (another disclosure: I'm a pitbull owner. I know what fantastic dogs they are and despite people who abuse them, in part b/c I've dealt firsthand with the public image that has resulted from as*holes like Vick. I don't know the guy's beliefs or exacctly how much he has done on that front, so for now I view him as a guy who was absolutely despicable, and now may or may not have changed his views)

    I'd love to see him start a foundation for pitbull rescue and donate a significant percentage of his earnings to it and make talking with kids in areas prone to dogfighting an offseason commitment on a par to his physical training. Were he to do that for the rest of his career, you'd hear me refer to him as a hero for the very reasons you've put forth here. Let's see if he does anything close to that.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  22. shirtsleeve

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    Yeah, after all, its a dog-eat-dog world out there.

    The man is a piece of what the dogs left in the pens. He had more choices in his life than many in his situation and he outright screwed them up and ignored his responsibilities. I can not believe the apologists out there making excuses for multi millionaire pampered since high school athletes. Give me a break.
  23. chicowalker

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    Why are pubbies so eager to forgive him but they still hold hatred in their hearts for Obama and Clinton?

    Why does a guy who holds hatred in his heart for hundreds of millions of adherents to a religion care about others' alleged hatred for anybody?
  24. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Try looking outside your own worldview. Chances are if you had role models they would be people you could in theory emulate, not people who you can't be. If you made mistakes in your life, chances are you would look to people who made mistakes and found ways to rise above it. Vick is not a role model for people of my ilk, but for people who are from the world of poverty and violence, he is a far better example than gangstas and the like.
  25. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Who is to say his "worldview" is all that different from my own? The kid had more priveledge and special treatment IN HIGH SCHOOL than I will ever recieve in my entire life. You forget how big time HS football is. Pampered athletes with new "rental" cars donated by the alumni, money, clothes, credit cards....He blew it.
  26. Patters

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    Yes, from your cultural perspective, you're right, he blew it, but yours is not the only culture. Vick was born into poverty, the child unmarried teens, who struggled to make ends meet. He grew up in a housing project where there was violence. He learned the rules of his subculture. You can't expect him to comprehend your world anymore than he can expect you to comprehend his world or the Queen of England could expect you to comprehend her world. But, he's learning about the prevailing culture and it's power, and still pushing on. He's showing it's possible to overcome all one's ignorance and disadvantages and move on. For the young man now serving time in prison because he did some bad things, Vick is showing it's possible to move on and possible to succeed.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  27. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Possibly true - but most of us do something in order to keep doing something else, don't we? And he began volunteering with the Humane Society before he got back in the NFL. Maybe he did it so he could get back in, I don't know - but I'm also unsure why it matters.

    That's fair enough. I have absolutely no problem with that and I may even agree with it. Half of the stuff I've been saying isn't necessarily my own personal belief, it's more a devil's advocate kind of approach. I'm just always aware that every story has two sides and it's irritating to me when no one acknowledges that.

    MrP and I have a grandpuppy who is a pit bull. I agree that they are fantastic dogs, loyal and smart and kinda funny at times. And yes, their reputation was made by the people who breed and fight them and not by the dogs themselves. I agree again.


    Fair enough - at least you're giving him a chance.
  28. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    This is Newport News we're talking about, SS. I hardly think you're correct here but if you've got proof I'll be glad to change my mind.
  29. Nikolai

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    Mrs. P,

    I appreciate where you're coming from and I would agree with you in theory, but it's just too early to be giving Vick these kinds of accolades. Let's allow him time to actually accrue a body of work over years that demonstrates his changed life.
  30. Nikolai

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    Well, yeah, in Newport News, they don't get sports cars, but the police look the other way when these guys get arrested. They get other benes as well.

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