mgteich's June 9 Roster

[pats1]

If Washington is cut at Training Camp then he costs the Pats approx. $300,000 (according to http://www.patscap.com/) That is a pretty expensive tryout, if you ask me. I know they did that with David Terrell a few years ago - I beleive he cost them $200,000 for his tryout. That is a lot of dead money to carry forward.

Are you being sarcastic?

 

[pats1]

On your LB slots, you have:

LB - 6 Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Bruschi, Seau, veteran free agent/(Alexander)

Guess my question isn't there enough depth to allow Mays, possibly Lua play in the FA slot as we have so much experience & intelligence across the board to help them learn the position?? Lua is a longshot, but one of those guys who could be a diamond in the rough.. we have to find one of these guys again as we seemed to have missed it the past couple of drafts. I think Gay is the last one the Pats found, maybe Lua is the next Gay??

I agree. Compared to past years, 6 LBs is an awfully low number to start the season with.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with this analysis of 2008, although my order might be different. For example, I don't think of Welker as a #2. I certainly hope that Jackson, Washington are competing for that spot. They are the players with upside. I expect that Caldwell will have his contract extended before the season starts, although this could happen to Gaffney instead.

I think we should all allow for the POSSIBILITY that, in spite of the team's plans, Washington will wash out, and we will keep both Caldwell and Gaffney. Caldwell and Gaffney are signed through 2007. They are subs, backups. We only need one of them. The #5 position should be for players with upside, even though they might not work out.

Only three receivers should be expected to get many reps. IMHO, Caldwell had a really solid year, and dropped a couple of passes in the final game. For Boston fans, that means that he should be fired. Perhaps Brady should be fired for his many aweful passes last yer. ??? Let's be serious, Caldwell was a key reason why we made it to the playoffs. He is versatile, and is the best player off the bench to get significant reps if any of the top three are injured, or take several games to get in tune with Tom.

BTW, I also think that if Brown has anything left, he will make the team (just not at #5 wide receiver). However, I do NOT think that he has anything left.

Part of his enigma is that he's signed through the 2011 season and has a $5.76 million cap number next year and a $4.8 million roster bonus payable in 2008. I'm seeing 4 WR contracts up at the end of the season; Moss, Caldwell, Gaffney and Stallworth. (the Pats hold an option for Stallworth) Looking ahead, KW's figures appear to be #3 WR money for next year. This indicates that the Pats are not planning to re-sign both Moss and Stallworth and hope Washington can step up. Of course things can change, but next year may look like:

1: Moss/Stallworth
2: Welker
3: Washington
4: Caldwell/Gaffney
5: Jackson

This isn't a prediction, but more of an attempt to rationalize Washington's contract and I apologize for jumping ahead to next year before this year is set. IMO he is almost a lock to make the team. I suppose his contract is favorable enough that he could be traded, but he'll have to show something in T.C. If he does the Pats will put him on the roster and make the decision next season. Might they hide him on special teams? Am I off base with this stuff? (wouldn't surprise me)

 

[pats1]

I generally agree except at WR.

I think Gaffney and Brown have the edge over Caldwell and Washington.

Gaffney impressed in his limited time last season and by the time the playoffs rolled around, he was easily our most reliable WR. I don't see Belichick forgetting that point. Plus from what I've heard, he made quite a few nice grabs this past week.

Caldwell is going to have a hard time making this team. His drops in the AFCC exposed him as a choker. I just don't see how Caldwell can overcome that. If the Pats have been anything over the past six years, it's been clutch. Caldwell clearly doesn't fit that mold. He's got speed but with Moss, Stallworth, and Welker on the roster we've got that area covered.

Your logic makes no sense, and completely overstates the situation.

BB will NEVER damn a player for all eternity because of one mistake.

"I just don't see how Caldwell can overcome that?"

Are you kidding me? That's a joke.

 

[Keegs]

I generally agree except at WR.

I think Gaffney and Brown have the edge over Caldwell and Washington.

Gaffney impressed in his limited time last season and by the time the playoffs rolled around, he was easily our most reliable WR. I don't see Belichick forgetting that point. Plus from what I've heard, he made quite a few nice grabs this past week.

Caldwell is going to have a hard time making this team. His drops in the AFCC exposed him as a choker. I just don't see how Caldwell can overcome that. If the Pats have been anything over the past six years, it's been clutch. Caldwell clearly doesn't fit that mold. He's got speed but with Moss, Stallworth, and Welker on the roster we've got that area covered.

Brown makes the team b/c of his positional flexibility and b/c he's Troy Brown. As long as he's got something left, he'll have a place on this team.

Washington could stick but only if BB decides to keep 6 WR's or moves Brown to DB full time.

This is all assuming that Chad Jackson is placed on PUP or IR. If Jackson is healthy, he'll take the last spot ahead of Washington and/or Gaffney.

I agree....
If it was up to me (which everything should be) Reche would be cut and playing for the Argonauts.... ok that's a little harsh..

but you are right. He did label himself a choker. Even after Gaffney bailed him out with that amazing TD catch, Reche goes and poops his pants again. So frustrating to watch. The entire team was let down because of his horrendous play in that game.

The San Diego catch was an normal catch. If Reche had dropped that, everyone on this site would want him gone. 90% of the receivers in this league (maybe 95%) would have caught that ball against San Diego.

That DOES NOT make up for his brainfarts against indy. I don't want the "Rex Grossman of receivers" playing on my team. A good game, a horrendous game, a good game, a horrendous game...

no thanks.

If Reche does make it, he should be the last receiver on the roster and only used in emergency situations.... otherwise... god help us.

 

[mgteich]

You may be right, but I really don't think so. Is the team really better with Lua on the 53 instead of a veteran backup, who plays solid special teams? I like Lua a lot. Perhaps we should pay him $300K or more to play on the Practice Squad. However, if a linebacker or two is injured, I want to have another veteran in the rotation. Now, he doesn't NEED to be an old grizzled vet. He could be a backup that isn't working out, or who has been injured, similar to the Moore signing on the DL. Gardner fit that bill last year, but was injured.

I do think that the team likes Mays a lot and hopes that he can be a future ILB. He is likely to get the roster nod over Alexander as a STer.

On your LB slots, you have:

LB - 6 Vrabel, Colvin, Thomas, Bruschi, Seau, veteran free agent/(Alexander)

Guess my question isn't there enough depth to allow Mays, possibly Lua play in the FA slot as we have so much experience & intelligence across the board to help them learn the position?? Lua is a longshot, but one of those guys who could be a diamond in the rough.. we have to find one of these guys again as we seemed to have missed it the past couple of drafts. I think Gay is the last one the Pats found, maybe Lua is the next Gay??

 

[mgteich]

bb will not hesistate to cut Washington because he already spent $300K. However, the $300K is a statement of the expectation that Washingotn will make the team over Caldwell and Gaffney who have not been extended.

If Washington is cut at Training Camp then he costs the Pats approx. $300,000 (according to http://www.patscap.com/) That is a pretty expensive tryout, if you ask me. I know they did that with David Terrell a few years ago - I beleive he cost them $200,000 for his tryout. That is a lot of dead money to carry forward.

 

[mgteich]

Let's be clear. If bb thought that we had a real need at OT, we would have drafted Joe Staley at #28 instead of allowing SF to do so. I think that bb and dante are fine with Light and Kazcur as our starters at OT, although personally, I might consider switching their positions. And they are fine with Britt as a Game Day backup to both.

That being said, Light, Kazcur and O'Callaghan have all been injured. Britt is an OK backup at LT, and even a Game Day backup at RT. We need Practice Squad depth. And yes, there is certainly the possibility that one of these will not make the team because of injury (past , present or future). I do not like O'Callaghan's propensity to have concussions. He certainly could retire early. I thought it quite reasonable to draft POTENTIAL backups. However, I do NOT think that the drafting of UDFA quality players is a statement regarding the quality of play of the OL.

Given that only seven OL's are ever active, there is certainly room for Oldenburg to replace O'Callaghan, and have Britt as the Game Day backup at both OT positions.

Yates is the other inactive, and is going nowhere. Hochstein is a solid gameday backup at center an guard (as is Yates). And, Mruczkowski is there to make the team in case of an injury inside.

There is certainly plenty of room on the Practice Squad for two or three OL's (Dante development camp) along with a receiver. I think that it is essential to have a developmental OT, on the 53 or on the Practice Squad.

I'm thinking the most roiling might come at the bottom of the OL roster. The Patriots drafted THREE offensive lineman -- hardly a sign that they're happy sitting pat with last year's OL depth. (On the flip side, a gutsy undersized 7th-round center does sound like perfect PS material.)

 

[JackBauer]

Caldwell is going to have a hard time making this team. His drops in the AFCC exposed him as a choker. I just don't see how Caldwell can overcome that. If the Pats have been anything over the past six years, it's been clutch. Caldwell clearly doesn't fit that mold.

What is it with this garbage?

 

[JoeSixPat]

If Jackson is rehabbing, but potentially useful, sending him straight to IR would be beyond stupid. Put him on PUP, and if all the WRs are still in good shape at mid-season, then consider IRing him. [If he is in fact nowhere near ready, then IRing him might make sense.

I think the point is less of the semantics of of when Jackson is PUPed or IRed... more that most would rank Jackson somewhere AFTER Moss, Stallworth, Caldwell, Gaffney, Brown and even possibly Washington given Jackson's health and development to date.

I guess you could also make the same point about health at ALL positions on the roster too and therefore even some of the guys mgteich has slated not to make the roster could make it if some starters suffer an injury.

That too is not really the point of the thread - obviously no one knows what the future holds and ANYONE could make the roster if there are health problems

I think what mgteich is trying to do is, based on the current state of the team, and assuming everyone's healthy, who would people predict to make or not make the 53 man roster.

Again, I think an assumption that, given current depth at WR, if things stay the same, the liklihood of Jackson making the roster and not being placed on IR whether he's fully healed or not is a pretty safe assumption if we're predicting a starting roster as of June 9th.

I do not see the team carrying 7 WRs on the 53 man roster... that's for sure.

 

[Keegs]

What is it with this garbage?

it's not garbage man, it's the truth.

He didn't make anything up.

I understand that you disagree and think Caldwell is a better option than Gaffney but you should post WHY you think that instead of just saying "no".

Posting your argument would also be better than just calling his post "garbage".

 

[JackBauer]

it's not garbage man, it's the truth.

He didn't make anything up.

I understand that you disagree and think Caldwell is a better option than Gaffney but you should post WHY you think that instead of just saying "no".

Posting your argument would also be better than just calling his post "garbage".

There's really no point, as this has already been beaten to death in the other thread.

Caldwell has been more reliable and has had better production against better defenders. There simply is no argument to take Gaffney over Caldwell.

 

[Keegs]

There's really no point, as this has already been beaten to death in the other thread.

Caldwell has been more reliable and has had better production against better defenders. There simply is no argument to take Gaffney over Caldwell.

Yes there is, a very simple one.

Caldwell chokes under pressure and his play suffers

Gaffney thrives under pressure and he plays better

This is a fact.

Caldwell had better REGULAR SEASON production but then again he played much more than Gaffney and was with the team the entire season... I don't know why everyone leaves that part out, but they do.

either way, what good is a receiver if he's going to be decent during the regular season and then blow it bigtime in the AFC Championship game?
Everything he does in the regular season means nothing at that point.

Reche choked, he had his chance.... and this team will move on without him, or with him buried under 5 receivers on the depth chart... one or the other.

 

[JackBauer]

Yes there is, a very simple one.

Caldwell chokes under pressure and his play suffers

Gaffney thrives under pressure and he plays better

This is a fact.

Caldwell had better REGULAR SEASON production but then again he played much more than Gaffney and was with the team the entire season... I don't know why everyone leaves that part out, but they do.

either way, what good is a receiver if he's going to be decent during the regular season and then blow it bigtime in the AFC Championship game?
Everything he does in the regular season means nothing at that point.

Reche choked, he had his chance.... and this team will move on without him, or with him buried under 5 receivers on the depth chart... one or the other.

With such a limited sample, there is no way you can make such absolute statements. I'd say Caldwell's 47-yard reception against the Chargers was pretty clutch. In case you've forgotten, Caldwell was hardly the only choker in the AFCCG. Employing Keegian logic, I expect Cassel to be starting Week 1.

Likewise, Caldwell actually performed DURING the season, while Gaffney did not. If Gaffney was such an asset, he could've been acquired much earlier in the season but the team chose not to do so. The fact remains the Patriots would've never even MADE the playoffs were it not for Reche. If you think there are really 5 receivers on the Patriots who are currently better than Caldwell, I challenge you to name them.

 

[PYPER]

Your logic makes no sense, and completely overstates the situation.

BB will NEVER damn a player for all eternity because of one mistake.

"I just don't see how Caldwell can overcome that?"

Are you kidding me? That's a joke.

I never said it was about damning a player over one mistake. But the truth is that in order to become a "special" team, one must comprise their roster of "special" players. Players who possess what is commonly referred to as "it".

Whether it was just one play or just one game is irrelevant. Everybody makes mistakes from time to time. The issue is WHY did they make the mistakes they made. Not all flaws are created equal. Off all the reasons to make a mistake, the one reason that can't be allowed or accepted is inability to handle pressure. Championship caliber teams play in pressure packed games. That's never going to change.

We've all been lucky enough to enjoy three championship seasons b/c the our roster has been comprised of money players. Players who look forward to the big moments in the big games.

The day we start settling or accepting players who are afraid or overwhelmed by those big moments is the day this dynasty ends.

If you want to be a special team you've got to have special players. If you want your team to have "it", your players must have "it''.

Reche Caldwell doesn't have it and he most likely never will. He's a talented guy capable of many good things but he belongs on the Buffalo Bills or the Seattle Seahawks, not the New England Patriots.

That's my opinion. I don't wish anything but the best for Reche Caldwell but keeping him on this team is a bad recipe for a whole lot of heartache.

Oh and by the way, try not to skip your meds anymore.

);p

 

[JackBauer]

Reche Caldwell doesn't have it and he most likely never will. He's a talented guy capable of many good things but he belongs on the Buffalo Bills or the Seattle Seahawks, not the New England Patriots.

So would you be willing to wager on Caldwell being a Patriot this season? The fact remains that this illogic does not hold true. If it did, Heath Evans, among others, would not be Patriots this year.

 

[zippo59]

Only six linebackers? Wouldn't that be an all time low on this team? That is just not enough for a 3-4 defense.

And who is "veteran free agent" you are talking about? It sounds nice but it doesn't seem like there is anyone out there worth signing. Do you have any names in mind or is it just wishful thinking?

 

[Keegs]

I never said it was about damning a player over one mistake. But the truth is that in order to become a "special" team, one must comprise their roster of "special" players. Players who possess what is commonly referred to as "it".

Whether it was just one play or just one game is irrelevant. Everybody makes mistakes from time to time. The issue is WHY did they make the mistakes they made. Not all flaws are created equal. Off all the reasons to make a mistake, the one reason that can't be allowed or accepted is inability to handle pressure. Championship caliber teams play in pressure packed games. That's never going to change.

We've all been lucky enough to enjoy three championship seasons b/c the our roster has been comprised of money players. Players who look forward to the big moments in the big games.

The day we start settling or accepting players who are afraid or overwhelmed by those big moments is the day this dynasty ends.

If you want to be a special team you've got to have special players. If you want your team to have "it", your players must have "it''.

Reche Caldwell doesn't have it and he most likely never will. He's a talented guy capable of many good things but he belongs on the Buffalo Bills or the Seattle Seahawks, not the New England Patriots.

That's my opinion. I don't wish anything but the best for Reche Caldwell but keeping him on this team is a bad recipe for a whole lot of heartache.

Oh and by the way, try not to skip your meds anymore.

);p

this is correct.

He is a liability.

Nobody on this site will be comfortable watching Reche on the field in another big playoff game.. that is the truth. i don't care what anyone says, if they deny it they are lying.

unfortunately, this point is ignored over and over and over again...

 

[JackBauer]

this is correct.

He is a liability.

Nobody on this site will be comfortable watching Reche on the field in another big playoff game.. that is the truth. i don't care what anyone says, if they deny it they are lying.

unfortunately, this point is ignored over and over and over again...

At least you're being consistent...

 

[Keegs]

At least you're being consistent...

I know you have a strong opinion like i do, yours is just the opposite...
But yeah i am consistent, and im right.

All i have done is told the truth, while the pro-caldwell side continues to make dogcrap comparisons, manipulate facts, or leave out information when trying to patch together their putrid argument as to why Reche is a better choice than Jabar.

I just wish i would see more out of you and hear what you really feel. I read the thread and i saw Dabruinz and pats1 and even Kdo saying how they feel and at least giving your opinion.... All i saw from you were comments similar to someone standing right behind a person telling someone off and just saying "yeah, that's it, you tell him".

I suggest you start using some of your own thoughts.